We need to ask Starline to cut us some .900 .38 brass

[Shivahasagun]

Read both threads and it seems this is all about competitive shooting - ICORE and USPSA - but no one in either thread says they are having extraction problems or loading problems. It seems it’s all about speed reloading mostly .

Correct.

I tried moon clips once. Had one of those 8-shot S&w's. Didn't care for the system. But I'll probably revisit the idea eventually.

 

[Shivahasagun]

In the space of time it has taken to post threads and replies you could have trimmed hundreds! Only problem is if you are not using moon clips and the brass gets collected with all the others, it is no longer 38 special brass length. You would need to use a semi permanent head stamp marker to ID it,

Starline did not just fall of the brass truck, f there was profit to be made they would have done it, as others mentioned it would be the creation of a "new caliber" not just a head stamp. Not gonna happen.

It's no different than what they did with their .41 Special cases. Cut an existing cartridge case shorter, make a new headstamp. Done. Doesn't require SAAMI involvement.

This was more difficult but they still did it.

https://www.starlinebrass.com/9x23-comp-brass

 

[Shivahasagun]

This is all very informative about how the competitive shooters think about handloading. Certainly very different from my mindset as a hunter and hobbyist. Small difference between custom racing loads and wildcat new calibers.

Yes, when it comes to competition and self defense with a revolver, the importance of loading speed rises very close to the top.

 

[Barbaroja]

It's no different than what they did with their .41 Special cases. Cut an existing cartridge case shorter, make a new headstamp. Done. Doesn't require SAAMI involvement.

This was more difficult but they still did it.

https://www.starlinebrass.com/9x23-comp-brass

This is likely because of how many people wanted it. Or prehaps someone special ordered it, then already having the headstamp die decided it was worth making it a regular catalog item.

 

[EricBu]

This is exactly why C45S came about, the SASS guys wanted something that ejected faster, was more compatible than Schofield, and was more consistent with modern powders. It's basically a 45 Colt cut down to the length of a 45 ACP....or you can say it's a 45 ACP with a 45 Colt rim on it. Adirondack Jack worked the magic deal to get the headstamp die done (Cowboy 45 SPL) and Starline to make it. He then sold that brass, and ammo in it for years and years until he ultimately sold it to another business. It's still popular, and I shoot/load a lot of it myself, just because I get better accuracy from it out of all my Colt revolvers. It won't run reliably in repeaters though, without mods. Starline still carries it, it's a little bit more than 45 Colt, but usually available when Colt isn't.

Top Pic, the headstamp. Bottom pic, comparison, top to bottom: C45S, 45 ACP, 45 Colt.

 

[Laphroaig]

How long would it take using a Lee trimmer to cut 500 pcs of .38 Spl. brass? (To start)

Hand cranking Lee, or any other one you can probably do 150 or 200 an hour if you are diligent. I know my hand couldn't last for 500 so it might take a couple sessions. Definitely faster output if you are motorized. That just sounds like a DIY no-brainer if you really need that brass. Low tech, cheap equipment, fastest turn around.

 

[Seedy Character]

Given how backed up Starline is making normal brass these days I think you're wait will be looooooooooooong, if they do agree to do it.

Not a horrible idea I guess but I don't see them selling a pile of it either though so likely not real profitable for them.

THIS!!!!!

Making all they can, selling out and keep up.


As a CAS, I like the idea. Have cut down .45C and .44 Spl. I have shot some .38 Colt Short, in searching for reduced recoil loads.

I have buckets of .38 Spl brass. Trimming may be in my future. Not a fan of moon clips.

Starline makes it and similarly priced, I will buy some.

 

[Bwana John]

Harbor Freight mini chopsaw, and a 3D printed shell holder jig for it (custom printed from many folks on eBay).
. https://www.ebay.com/itm/-223-to-30...1-7bcb-42f9-b9ac-707eb108fd0c&redirect=mobile
I cut down 308 to 45auto shot shell and 7.62 Nagant revolver to .310 Cadet in no time at all, followed by a quick clean up of the case mouth with a rotary trimmer.
Much faster than a trim die or just a case trimmer.

 

[edwardware]

Only problem is if you are not using moon clips and the brass gets collected with all the others, it is no longer 38 special brass length. You would need to use a semi permanent head stamp marker to ID it,

In my process, a shorter case will certainly be picked out. . . but headstamps are unlikely to be noticed unless I'm making a precision batch.

In the space of time it has taken to post threads and replies you could have trimmed hundreds!

In my experience, 100/hour is easy, even with polishing after chamfering for precision rifle brass.

 

[Shivahasagun]

This is likely because of how many people wanted it...

Yes. That's why I brought it up. I'm trying to raise a petition.

As suggested I should try it in a competition-based forum.

 

[Shivahasagun]

This is exactly why C45S came about, the SASS guys wanted something that ejected faster, was more compatible than Schofield, and was more consistent with modern powders. It's basically a 45 Colt cut down to the length of a 45 ACP....or you can say it's a 45 ACP with a 45 Colt rim on it. Adirondack Jack worked the magic deal to get the headstamp die done (Cowboy 45 SPL) and Starline to make it. He then sold that brass, and ammo in it for years and years until he ultimately sold it to another business. It's still popular, and I shoot/load a lot of it myself, just because I get better accuracy from it out of all my Colt revolvers. It won't run reliably in repeaters though, without mods. Starline still carries it, it's a little bit more than 45 Colt, but usually available when Colt isn't.

Top Pic, the headstamp. Bottom pic, comparison, top to bottom: C45S, 45 ACP, 45 Colt.


View attachment 1086494
View attachment 1086493

I didn't know about this one, that's great!

This is why I like and load .44 Russian instead of .44 spl.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Harbor Freight mini chopsaw, and a 3D printed shell holder jig for it (custom printed from many folks on eBay).
. https://www.ebay.com/itm/-223-to-30...1-7bcb-42f9-b9ac-707eb108fd0c&redirect=mobile
I cut down 308 to 45auto shot shell and 7.62 Nagant revolver to .310 Cadet in no time at all, followed by a quick clean up of the case mouth with a rotary trimmer.
Much faster than a trim die or just a case trimmer.

I use a Sherline lathe to make 9mmMak from 9mmP. It's a fun exercise. I only make about 100 at a time and that takes anywhere from an hour to 90 minutes stretched out over as many days as I'd care to work on it. No rush. I really hope I don't ever need to rely on a Radom P64 in 9mm Mak to save my life.

Helps that I don't bother collecting my brass. Too easy and fun to just make more and I've got thousands of 9mm range brass. I don't bother picking up any self-loader pistol brass these days.
If any y'all buy "once-fired" 9mm brass from online and you get some that are cut to 9x18mm, those were probably mine.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Starline make it but they are probably concentrating on the more popular cartridges now.
Here is the link for it: https://www.starlinebrass.com/38-short-colt-brass

Brownells has .38 Short Colt brass listed from Starline but it's not in stock right now.
They are listing 100 pieces for $25.99 and the have a notify button for when it comes back into stock.

 

[Jim Watson]

Magtech catalogs a ".38 Special Short" but case length eyeballs close to Short Colt; not what is asked for here.

Case length is an easy fix... I want some 30-30 small primer and putting brass back in the case head isn't really feasible.

That was done some years ago as the .30 American. The intent was to form .219 Donaldson Wasp with small primers to compete against .22 PPC.

If any y'all buy "once-fired" 9mm brass from online and you get some that are cut to 9x18mm, those were probably mine.

I ran some Hornady 9.2x18 boxer primed brass through my 9mm P Dillon setup and never noticed it until I saw more bullet ahead of the brass. I pulled them until I got curious, and loaded a couple in a gun. They fed, fired, and functioned. I assume the short case was "head spacing" on the extractor or on the chamber taper.

 

[TTv2]

I understand your desire for this, but the solution is simple to just cut down some .38 Special cases. It's not like that brass isn't going to last the rest of your life.

Why Starline made the .45 Cowboy Special when people could have cut down .45 Colt brass, IDK. Maybe there's enough of a material savings to justify it, that's a decent amount of brass saved.

I'd rather see Starline start making .32 and .38 Rimfire brass because there are places making kits to reload .22 rimfire and they seem to work fine with black powder. Still quite a few antiques out there not being shot in the .32 and .38 RF due to lack of ammo.

Something that I've run into is I really want a .44 Webley chambered H&R revolver. Don't ask why I need the challenge in my life, but apparently the rim thickness on those cartridges was so thin that modern brass isn't going to headspace in a way that allows the cylinder to close. I need some .44 Webley brass.

How about some rimmed versions of 9mm, .40, 10mm, and .45 ACP brass that works with modern revolvers so we don't have to use clips?

 

[Shivahasagun]

Well, reccomend a fast case cutter / trimmer / deburrer?

Probably means something with a motor on it.

 

[AJC1]

Well, reccomend a fast case cutter / trimmer / deburrer?

Probably means something with a motor on it.

I cut pistol brass on a Hornaday hand trimmer and 223 on the Lyman powered trimmer. If I had bulk to deal with I would use my lathe and a clamp shell holder.

 

[jmorris]

I hear this is time consuming. I'd rather just purchase.

Call them. I think their minimum for a custom headstamp is 50,000 cases. Might be more for a custom length, let us know what they tell you.

These guys would probably do fewer but they are going to cost more per piece.

https://www.rccbrass.com/

http://www.qual-cart.com/

http://www.rockymountaincartridge.com/

That’s quite a bit to cut with a hand trimmer but there other ways to knock that much off.

 

[jmorris]

It's basically a 45 Colt cut down to the length of a 45 ACP....or you can say it's a 45 ACP with a 45 Colt rim on it.

Or a 45 Auto Rim with a thin rim.

What’s old is new again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Auto_Rim

 

[EricBu]

Or a 45 Auto Rim with a thin rim.

What’s old is new again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Auto_Rim

45 AR won't run in most 45 Colt revolvers, rim is too thick. Closer comparison would be Schofield, though C45S is a lot shorter, (what's old is almost what's new 45 AR was made specifically to fit 45 ACP revolvers and replace moon clips... the rim was was made thicker to head space on the original S&W revolver to replace the moon clips. And also thicker because 45 AR commercial ammo would be at 45 ACP pressures, well over classic 45 Colt pressures. One of the benefits of C45S, it'll work without moon clips in a lot of 45 ACP revolvers (but not a 45 ACP used without moon clips), 45 Colt revolvers, and Schofield revolvers, kind of an all purpose 45 revolver round. It's a problem in many carbines though unless you tweak the gun.

But I do use my 45 AR seating and crimping dies for my C45S loads.

 

[jmorris]

Yes, too thick by around .030”, (+/- .0025 moon clip thickness) iirc.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Yes, too thick by around .030”, iirc.

Just thirty-thousandths per case? Shoot, that's about 15 seconds per case on a jeweler's lathe, if you're milking it. Mount, tighten the collet, trim, reset to zero, deburr, and unmount. I cut 9Luger down to 9Mak in about that same amount of time. HSS tooling loves brass w/ white oil.

 

[jmorris]

A little more complicated than that as your primer pocket also needs to be deeper by the same amount removed.

I have never sectioned and Auto Rim case to know if they would be thick enough to do that but I do know for certain some are not.

These are 45 Colt cases but the one on the left is “normal” these days. The antique ballon head, the one on the right is has been obsolete for many decades.

 

[EricBu]

Just thirty-thousandths per case? Shoot, that's about 15 seconds per case on a jeweler's lathe, if you're milking it. Mount, tighten the collet, trim, reset to zero, deburr, and unmount. I cut 9Luger down to 9Mak in about that same amount of time. HSS tooling loves brass w/ white oil.

That was not unheard of once upon a time. But, since these days 45 AR and C45S brass costs close enough, really not worth the extra effort unless one came into 45 AR brass for super cheap. Also, 45 AR uses an uncommon shell plate (IIRC, same as 44-40?), C45S uses the 44 Mag/45 Colt, so 99% of guys getting into C45S to handload will already have what they need to get started...except seating and crimping dies.

 

[gwpercle]

I don't see the big need for .900" long 38 brass ... But if I wanted shorter 38 special cases ... just set up the old power trimmer and it would only take a few minutes to shorten a few hundred .
You know what they say ... You want something done right , you gotta do it yourself !
Gary