Weatherby 7-08 Fiasco! HELP

[CarJunkieLS1]

I've had a Weatherby Vanguard S2 7mm-08 for about a year now. And I can't get this thing to consistently shoot well. I have tried 4 different factory ammo's (Core-Locts, Power Points, Hornady SST's, and Hornady Interlocks) all were the 139/140gr weight. It will not shoot to consistent POI or shoot better than MOA.

With the same POA it may group 1" high and 3" right. I can remove rifle from rest wait 10 minutes and shoot again and it might be 2" left and 2" high. It seems to be very random.

I have tried 2 different ring/mount combos and also 2 different scopes. Those rings and scopes are known good as they are on different rifles and shoot well.
I had a professional gunsmith bed the action and free float barrel in an aftermarket stock. It shoots more consistent now but still has a slight random POI shift.

I have tried handloads with a 130gr Speer Hot-Cor and a 120gr NBT. Both have been loaded with IMR 4064 and Varget. I loaded min-max and neither bullet shot well with IMR4064. Yesterday I shot the same bullets with Varget and the 130gr Hot-Cor went from MOA to 3MOA during min-max testing.

The min charge of Varget (42.5) touched the first 2 shots and the 3rd shot I pulled slightly and it went right at 1" group. I didn't shoot anymore as I ran out of time.

FAST FORWARD:
Today and I got curious and checked Weatherby's website and they list 9.5 twist for the 7-08 but I checked mine today with a cleaning rod and it came out 1:10 exactly 4 times in a row. I checked other rifles I have and the twist came out exactly what they were supposed to be. So I believe my method was sound.

Did Weatherby "mess up" on my barrel do I have a bad barrel from the factory and could the 1:10 twist be why my gun despises 139/140gr bullets. Should I dump more $ on this rifle and swap barrels in hopes it shoots like I know it should.

Sorry for the long post I'm at my whits end and I'm asking for opinions and help.

 

[Clint M]

My Sako 7mm-08 is a 1-10 twist I have no problems with bullet weight up to 140 I have not tried heavier. Twist rate can vary by how the barrel is rifled, I don't think twist rate is your problem. I done a small amount of research this is on memory I think 1-10 is good up to including 160gr non vld type (read long) bullets so for hunting you should be fine. If you handload you might look at trying Barnes 120 bullets that's what I plan to use after this season my current deer ammo is factory Fusion 140gr.

Also clean the barrel good start from fresh so to speak, I use wipeout or similar foaming bore cleaner let it soak, also gunslic copper klenz works good on copper and carbon to get most of the gunk out before soaking on foaming bore cleaner, and in between soaking in foaming bore cleaner.

It sure sounds like a bedding problem with the shift in impact. Some ideas to try make sure the barrel is free floated check with a thick piece of paper etc. I have heard of people saying if the recoil lug bottoms out in the stock it can give problems you can check that. Check your crown I don't know of a good way really you can look after firing several rounds at the pattern of carbon/muzzle blast left behind, also with a magnification glass of some kind, but having a gunsmith re-crown is the only sure way I know of. You can google on lapping the crown yourself this will work on any very small imperfections.

Good luck, Clint

 

[FiveInADime]

I would think even if it were a 1:10" twist it should shoot 140's just fine. I shot 150s and 162s accurately out of my 7-08 with a 1:9.5" twist. Sounds like something's wrong to me. You're absolutely sure the scope isn't the problem?

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

I don't see 1/2" in twist producing such consistent inconsistency.

Either the sighting system is moving relative to bore - on both axes

- and/or -

Something is hinky with regards to the barrel itself: Chamber, bore and/or muzzle.

How do cases look upon extraction?
Try an unfired projectile in the muzzle for a poor man's benchside gage.
Get a box of one of Federal's -08 offerings to take your handloads outa the equation.
Insert a snug-fit projectile into an uncharged case and insert it into the chamber for a get-by chamber/leade check.
Use a sharpee to darken the projectile of a finish seated projectile and look at markings in the black after you carefully extract it.

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

I have checked for a free floating barrel and it is definitely floated all the way up to the receiver. I can fold 2 pieces of computer paper together making it four sheets thick and it slides on the barrel straight to the receiver. As far as the recoil lug bottoming out I have no idea I haven't had it out of the stock since it has been bedded. The muzzle crown appears by my eye to be perfectly fine no dings, scratches, or damage of any kind.

I got curious and called weatheby about the twist rate and asked what ammo they test their rifles with and they said they shoot Federal ammo with 140gr Barnes almost exclusively and 140gr Ballistic tips otherwise.

With the 140gr Barnes being a very long bullet I'm not sure my rifle would shoot them well as it hates any 139/140 gr bullet I've tried and didn't care for the 130gr Speer either. I showed best results with the shortest and lightest bullet I've shot the 120gr NBT. Go figure

Cases being extracted look normal no gouges or scratches indicating a "rough chamber" I have tried to find the rifling with the longest bullet that I have and I have been unable to find it. The bullet is out of the case and it still doesn't jam the rifling.

I am 99% sure it isn't the scope/ring combo. I have tried different scopes and they came off of and are currently on other rifles and shoot just fine. The scope currently mounted is a Redfield Revolution 4-12x40 that was on a .30-06 that shot very well. They are mounted in a set of DNZ mount and rings.

 

[Geno]

Unless Weatherby has changed things, the #1 and #2 barrels are not to be free-floated. All #1 and #2 barrels are said to shoot best with 5 pounds of upward pressure in the fore end (per Weatherby). Even Bell & Carlson stocks are designed to provide 5 pounds upward pressure. The contours #3, #3.5 and #4 can be free-floated. You might want to contact Weatherby and ask. The service personnel there are top-notch!

Too, I would check the torque you are applying to the action screws. Check to see that you are installing the barreled action correctly (stock held vertical, insert front screw and tighten to spec (with the floor plate open). Next, insert and tighten the rear screw to spec. Close the floor plate. Take to range and enjoy.

Geno

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

The barrel is a #2 contour and it does shoot better once it has been floated. All ammo fired since the bedding and floating job has shot high and right of the bullseye. Group size has been 1" or larger" I'm talking 3" or larger. Even then the same MOA load doesn't do that consistently. One 3 shot group will be MOA the same ammo shot 10 minutes later might be 3 MOA. The best load I've tried has been
Winchester Brass 2.025
120gr Nosler BT
42.5gr Varget
COAL 2.830
Rem 9 1/2 primer

Now the above load has only been shot once so I've got to load up a few more, but if the rifle stays true to its name it won't repeat.

 

[Clint M]

Your rifle very well may prefer 120 gr bullets, but it should hold around MOA and consistent with 140gr as well and 150gr. Try putting a piece of foam tape type insulation between the barrel and stock 2-3 inches from for-end just thick enough to apply a small amount of pressure on the barrel. I have one odd ball gun that likes forend pressure instead of free floated.

Barnes states they make their bullets to comparable lead core bullets of same weight. I know they are copper not sure how they do it, but I have found no problems stabilizing their bullets. a 1-10 twist should have no problems stabilizing a 160gr hunting bullet so your right in the middle using 140gr weight bullets. Still some guns/barrels will be picky and prefer a lighter or heavier bullet, but still should hold around 1 MOA and be consistent. The inconsistent part of your post leads me to believe bullet weight is not your problem as you have tried several brands of bullets as well. Still it may not hurt to try a 120gr bullet just to see, and once you correct any problems you find with the gun the 120gr may shoot the best.

 

[quartermaster]

You might want to try a flat base bullet such as a Sierra Pro Hunter. I had a problem with a Tikka 300 WSM a while back and was getting very frustrated. My gun smith told me to try them and they worked.

It's exasperating when you can't make a gun shoot. Good luck! QM

 

[Captcurt]

You might want to try a flat base bullet such as a Sierra Pro Hunter. I had a problem with a Tikka 300 WSM a while back and was getting very frustrated. My gun smith told me to try them and they worked.

It's exasperating when you can't make a gun shoot. Good luck! QM

Yep, I have seen this before. An old timer turned me on to the flat base bullet when I had a problem with a 25-06. Cured it.

 

[rcmodel]

I can remove rifle from rest

What kind of rest????

Inconsistent hold can make a huge difference in group size or POI between groups.

As can scope parallax if your eye isn't positioned in exactly the same place behind the scope each shot.

More details of your bench rest methods necessary!

rc

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

Front and rear sand bags. The front bag goes between the bottom metal and the front swivel stud. I use the rear bag to set the elevation by squeezing the bag to get it to rise or fall.

On a side note I shoot all of my other rifles using same rest setup and NONE of them have issues like this. I have 7 other bolt guns too. This rifle is the only one.

 

[rcmodel]

Bag set-up sounds good.

But?
Scope make, model and power setting (Parallax) could still be an issue.
(If, you aren't getting your eye perfectly centered behind it.)

rc

 

[1948CJ2A]

Have you had a bore scope run down through it?
Did you purchase the rifle new or used?
What cleaning methods and frequency have you used?
Have other shooters duplicated your results?

What are you using the rifle for? If I read correctly, your best results are coming from shorter 120 gr bullets via handloads and you're getting 1" groups @ 100 yds, correct? If you're hunting deer or similar game, then that's more than sufficient. Though I completely understand the desire for better grouping.

If you're truly unhappy with the results, talk to Weatherby's customer service. I'd bet they would be willing to work with you.

I agree with others in that your twist rate of 1-10" shouldn't be a factor here.

I once had a Glock pistol I bought used. I took it out a few times and couldn't hit consistently with it. I had a friend try it and the results were the same. Once I knew it wasn't me and I had exhausted my options at the time, I sold it and moved on to a different solution.

 

[ironworkerwill]

If it won't shoot good with H380 and 120gr Sierra prohunter, It won't ever shoot*.

1:10 if fine even with 140gr Barnes bullets.

One thing about parallax, try shooting past 100yds like 110yds. Most manufactures set scopes to be parallax free at 100yds, so some extra yardage may compensate for a parallax error.

Bore scope it. You might see a problem. However, I've seen shabby looking barrels shoot well.


(*)Not really! Imr4064 and Varget both shoot exceptionally well for me along with Nos bt's.

Good luck, I hope you get it sorted out.

 

[Sunray]

"...Did Weatherby "mess up" on my barrel..." Nope. You have a bedding issue. Start by loosening all the action screws and see if the receiver rocks in the stock. If it does, there's a high spot. Then tighten all the action screws.
A free floating barrel guarantees nothing, but it should NOT float all the way to the receiver. It should only "float" from the chamber area forward. That would likely be your bedding issue.
42.5 gr. of Varget is the start load. Work up the load, but fix the bedding first.

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

To answer all the questions. I bought the rifle bran new and it has less than 100 rds through it. I have not ran a bore scope through it to see what it looks like. The action was bedded by a professional rifle builder who I trust 100% so I know it was done correctly. I have not touched the action screws since I had the laminate stock installed as the gunsmith torqued them down.

I realize Weatherby says that their barrels like fore end pressure, but since it has been bedded and floated it shoots better, but not much better. The factory Weatherby stock did not fit my action very well at all it was really tight on the receiver and had pressure on the left of the barrel the entire length of the stock.

I'm at a loss here and next time I shoot the best shooting load I've found if it doesnt repeat itself I'm gonna rebarrel it.

BTW I talked to Weatherby and they said that I was wrong when I measured a 1:10 twist and I said I'd like to get the correct twist specified on their website. He just said that if I was to send it in and they shot it in their "master stock" if it produced MOA for 3 shots that it didn't matter what twist my barrel actually was.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Any keyholes in targets?

Nice enough holes or any suspicious slashes?

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

I haven't noticed any key holing.

 

[B!ngoFuelUSN]

To answer all the questions. I bought the rifle bran new and it has less than 100 rds through it. I have not ran a bore scope through it to see what it looks like. The action was bedded by a professional rifle builder who I trust 100% so I know it was done correctly. I have not touched the action screws since I had the laminate stock installed as the gunsmith torqued them down.

I realize Weatherby says that their barrels like fore end pressure, but since it has been bedded and floated it shoots better, but not much better. The factory Weatherby stock did not fit my action very well at all it was really tight on the receiver and had pressure on the left of the barrel the entire length of the stock.

I'm at a loss here and next time I shoot the best shooting load I've found if it doesnt repeat itself I'm gonna rebarrel it.

BTW I talked to Weatherby and they said that I was wrong when I measured a 1:10 twist and I said I'd like to get the correct twist specified on their website. He just said that if I was to send it in and they shot it in their "master stock" if it produced MOA for 3 shots that it didn't matter what twist my barrel actually was.

Before you do any more mods to it, why not send it back to Weatherby? Might have been better to do so before your gunsmith did the work (not implying it was done wrong, but I suspect Weatherby would rather investigate issues with a 'stock' model) but that ship has sailed. If, as people are noting, Weatherby provides good customer service and you purchased the rifle new with 100 rounds down the pipe I would strongly suggest you ship it to them for analysis. To be fair it may be difficult for them to meaningfully reproduce your issue but it sounds like you're forced to take a random walk through analysis and problem solving because there are no obvious clues. And that can be quite costly without guaranteed results.
B

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

I called Weatherby before I even took it out of the factory stock and the weren't exactly what I would call helpful...I was told that 99% of the time they get rifles sent back to them that the rifle shoots fine so I'd be quote "wasting my time and money"

After that conversation that's when I started messing with the rifle. Earlier this week I discovered that my barrel has a 1:10 twist instead of the 1:9.5 its supposed to have. Wetherby again told me that if they get it back and it quote "shoots 3 shots into MOA that it doesn't matter what the actual twist is" IMO if its supposed to have a 1:9.5 and it has anything different that I should get a new barrel installed because it not what I thought I was buying. Weatherby said it doesn't matter!
That's like a new car that's supposed to have 18" rims and tires on it, but when u get home its got 15" steel wheels and hubcaps...you call the dealership and they say it doesn't really matter because they still roll don't they.

 

[MrBorland]

IMO if its supposed to have a 1:9.5 and it has anything different that I should get a new barrel installed because it not what I thought I was buying. Weatherby said it doesn't matter!

Well, yeah. I can see your point, but if they were to change barrels to a 9.5 and it didn't fix the problem, then what? It really didn't matter. It sounds like your issue is more a shifting POI, and I don't think that's got anything to do with a slightly slower twist.

FWIW, I'm in a similar situation with my custom 7mm-08 (I bought used), and it does have a barrel with a 1:9.5 twist. I don't have a shifting POI, but I haven't yet found a decent load heavier than 120gr NBTs.

One thing that could be affecting your shifting POI is receiver/barrel interface that isn't square. As the receiver heats up, it pushed on the barrel unevenly, so the POI shifts. If you haven't done it yet, try shooting the 120 BTs while letting the barrel completely cool between shots. If that improves things, I think it's possible the receiver face needs to be squared up with the barrel tenon.

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

Hmmm I haven't thought about the barrel receiver being out of square. It is possible I suppose that its the case. In fact it is the only thing I haven't tried to "accurize" this rifle, besides a new barrel. Funny thing is though is that in the factory synthetic stock the barrel was pushed against the left side of the barrel channel pretty hard. And my gunsmith told me that when he added the Laminate stock he had to mill out the left side of the barrel channel. I'm almost 100% decided I'm gonna throw in the towel and have a new barrel and the action trued up. Meeting my gunsmith today.

 

[LeonCarr]

If you are having wandering zero issues have you thought about having the barreled action cyrogenically frozen?

I have heard of problem rifles "settling down" after being cryoed by 300 Below or similar reputable company. Better accuracy, more consistent accuracy, and easier to clean are words used by a buddy of mine after having his .300 Remington Ultramag done. See what your Gunsmith says about it.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[MrBorland]

the factory synthetic stock the barrel was pushed against the left side of the barrel channel pretty hard. And my gunsmith told me that when he added the Laminate stock he had to mill out the left side of the barrel channel.

hmmm...ask your gunsmith if some other part of the receiver, other than it's face, is out of true. Maybe it's just a bad receiver, and the manufacturer ought to replace that.

I'm almost 100% decided I'm gonna throw in the towel and have a new barrel and the action trued up. Meeting my gunsmith today.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes and how it gets resolved. I'm curious.