Weird question re jerry rigging a folding stock to a wood stock

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

OK, you'll probably laugh at this one, but I have this old Winchester 69A turnbolt which has had the barrel shortened, and the stock is jacked up with a lot of dings and blemishes (This is a .22). But it shoots real well. So now what I want to do is put a folding stock on it since the stock looks like crap anyway. Probably I'd look at doing something like this: Leave the wood as is in the wood-to-receiver fit area, but cut off the wood buttstock to where more or less all that is left is a p-grip. Then take a folding stock for say, a Ruger 10/22 perhaps, and jerry rig it with wood screws into the back of the p-grip. Feasible? How hard or easy to do? Which aftermarket stock is most likely to be workable to it? Any suggestions or ideas? Just scrap the idea and buy a different gun? If so, is there a turnbolt .22 for sale anywhere that has a folding stock? I don't want a semi-auto or pump - this is gonna be a suppressed project as well after the folding stock is put on. Thanks.

 

[rcmodel]

Do some careful measuring first.
If you do it, it must still have at least a 16" barrel, and be 26" long with the stock folded to be legal according to Federal Law.

rcmodel

 

[wdlsguy]

Deleted.

 

[Avenger29]

PLEASE don't cut up a Winchester 69's stock- those are fine, fine, .22 rifles (I know, I have one). Refinish it at most- those things are worth a chunk o'change- so you may want to inquire as to the how much money you could get for it as is, too.

And, no, I can't think of a boltie with a folding stock. But I'd much rather take a $150 Savage .22Rifle and try to modify it...

If you do it, it must still have at least a 16" barrel, and be 26" long with the stock folded to be legal according to Federal Law

I'm pretty sure that with the stock folded, it can be shorter than 26" overall...

 

[wdlsguy]

I'm pretty sure that with the stock folded, it can be shorter than 26" overall...

I can't think of a single commercial, off the shelf model that comes that way though.

 

[JWarren]

Quote:
I'm pretty sure that with the stock folded, it can be shorter than 26" overall...

I can't think of a single commercial, off the shelf model that comes that way though.

I've never heard of a federal law that requires an overall firearm length. Many jurisdictions have them, however.

I may be wrong, however. Could someone please copy/paste the FEDERAL law stating a required overall length?


-- John

 

[wdlsguy]

Could someone please copy/paste the FEDERAL law stating a required overall length?

I hope this isn't one of those trick questions...

(5) The term “shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.

(6) The term “short-barreled shotgun” means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length and any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification or otherwise) if such a weapon as modified has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

(7) The term “rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

(8) The term “short-barreled rifle” means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

18 USC 921

I guess the unstated assumption is that the OP doesn't want to go through the effort of registering his .22 as a SBR.

 

[nalioth]

If you do it, it must still have at least a 16" barrel, and be 26" long with the stock folded to be legal <snip>

Only in Michigan and other fine locations (you know where you live ).

Federal law measures with the stock open.

 

[wdlsguy]

Interesting

One version of the Marble’s Game Getter was produced with 18-inch barrels and a folding shoulder stock. This model of the Game Getter, as manufactured, is not subject to the provisions of the NFA because it has barrels that are 18 inches in length and the overall length of the firearm, with stock extended, is more than 26 inches. However, if the shoulder stock has been removed from the 18-inch barrel version of the Game Getter, the firearm has an overall length of less than 26 inches and is an NFA weapon. Specifically, the firearm is classified as a weapon made from a rifle/shotgun.

ATF NFA Handbook

So I guess a rifle or shotgun can have an overall length less than 26" with the stock folded, as long as it's at least 26" with the stock unfolded.

 

[goon]

Aren't the Kel-Tec carbines less than 26" folded?
IIRC, the M1 Carbine with an original wood folder is just a bit under that too.

I'd think the easiest thing to start with would be one of the folding pistol grip rear stocks that are available for pump action or semi-auto shotguns.
Or maybe lay your hands on a romanian AK side folding stock and make that fit, then screw the pistol grip of your choice on behind the trigger.

IIRC, aren't some versions of the old Game Getters also C&R?
I think that status makes them exempt from NFA, but I could be wrong.

 

[JWarren]

Regarding length... the above posts were on the lines of my understanding.

Also, I was thinking in the lines of some of the PGO shotguns that I've seen. While I never measured any, I thought that some of the 18" models would fall below the mentioned overall length.

After checking for this post, however, the shortest PGO shotgun manufactured as a PGO shotgun I found was a Mossberg and its OAL was 26.75".


-- John

 

[goon]

Pistol grips are different than a folder though.
IIRC, folders are measured with their stocks locked open.
As long as you don't take the shoulder stock completely off you're completely legal.

I think an AK folder may be just under 26" too now that I put a little thought into it.
And according to Choate M&T, their 10/22 folders take 12" off the total length when folded. The 10/22 is listed at 36 7/8 inches with a standard stock.
Subtract 12" from that and you get just a hair under 25" folded.

 

[rcmodel]

From the National Firearms Act of 1934:
§ 5845. Definitions

(a) Firearm. -- The term "firearm" means (1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (5) any other weapon, as defined in subsection (e); (6) a machinegun; (7) any silencer (as defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code); and (8) a destructive device.

An exception was made for the M1A1 folding stock carbine after WWII.
All GI M1A1 Carbines are just a frog-hair under 26" to start with when folded.

The Kel-Tec SU-16A, SU-16B, or SU-16CA cannot be fired when folded, so the law doesn't apply to them.

The SU-16C model can, and it is 25 1/2" when folded.
How they got around the law on that one escapes me.

But I believe the catch is in the wording of the NFA.
"made from a rifle if such weapon as modified"

The SU-16C is not modified.
It was designed and made that way from the start, and uses a different receiver & trigger group then the other models.

If you take a hacksaw to a bolt-action .22 rifle however, it must have a 16" or longer barrel, and it must be at least 26" long when you get done.

rcmodel

 

[Buzzbox]

Don't do it.

I have a much simpler reason, because unless you take care and do it right, it won't be durable, and the connection between the folder and original wood stock will degrade over time, and be difficult to maintain.

If you must do this, do not depend on screws. Use fine thread throughbolts and square nuts. "Bed" the connection with epoxy. Take care to cut and drill accurately, if the wood splits, you're done.