This is what I want - Any ideas?

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

A lightweight turnbolt rifle (actually two of them) which incorporates these features which I like in my EBRs:

1. Pistol grip

2. Attachment point for single point sling

3. Bottom rail for accessories such as an F-grip/light combo.


#1 is easy enough - there are aftermarket makers of P-grip stocks for Rem and Savage actions; maybe others. Folding stock I can take or leave, but the fact that the P-grip ones come with folding stock is a plus if anything - can't hurt.

How do I get the other two done? Maybe a Tubb/tube style gun? But I want lightweight - as light as possible, and those guns are heavy. Any cheap/easy/good way to attach a sturdily-mounted ring for a single point sling on a turnbolt at the balance point? Do any of the aftermarket P-grip stocks come with a bottom rail and/or attachment point? Which ones? Any other ideas? Anyone recommend a gunsmith that has the time to take on the project and do it right, for a nice fee from me?

My goal is to make two of these similar rifles. One with a 10" bbl, SBR'ed with suppressor, .338 Spectre (short range quiet gun), and one with a 22" bbl in .280 Rem (long range loud gun). I'm pretty serious about this and have decided to sell nearly my entire collection (or whatever portion is necessary to raise the funds) to finance this, so I do need help to make the finished products come out the way I want them, since there will be fewer toys left at that point, so I'd better like and enjoy them.

By the way, I want a NON-detachable (fixed) box mag for these rifles. Would like to run with a "mini" type action like the CZ 527 for the .338 Spectre, and would love to use the T/C Icon Classic for the .280, but those probably ain't happening, because there are a lot of problems in those choices: the 527 has a detachable mag, there not a lot of aftermarket parts for either one of these actions, and no .280 chambering for the T/C (yet). What other "mini" .223 actions are out there besides the 527? Do any of the "mini" actions have an aftermarket P-grip stock for them? The .338 spectre uses a .223 bolt face size. So action suggestions for either are solicited. Obviously I'll *probably* go with a long action from either Remington or Savage or possibly Browning A-bolt for the .280. Or possibly fit a .280 barrel to my T/C Icon .30-06. Anyone know how hard /easy it is to change bbls on the Icon classic, or gunsmiths who do it? Aftermarket P-grip stocks for the Browning?

Sidebar: While I'm dreamin and cooking this up, the .338 spectre will probably end up wearing a Nikon Omega 1.65-5x36mm with a Gen 3 or 2+ N.V. scope enhancer behind it (likely the 2+), so I will also need a forward mounting option for this one - need enough meat on the barrel to handle that - scope in front, NV in rear. Not sure which scope the .280 will wear - possibly an Elite 6500 2.5-16x42 or a rangefinding scope. Who all makes rangefinding scopes? Anyone besides Burris & Bushnell? I've got to visualize my goal to be able to take the punch in the gut that sellin some of my babies will require.

Stay tuned for lots of for-sale ads from me and suppressor recommendations.

 

[benzy2]

http://savagearms.com/11model_BTHshortaction.htm

You would need to add the bottom rail but most decent stock makers or even someone handy with wood work can do that for you. It isn't the AR pistol grip look but it gets you the same or a very similar feel. Closest thing I can think of.

 

[highorder]

Howa has what you want.

http://www.legacysports.com/products/howa/howa_axiomstd1.html

Just add a sling mount wherever you want it, and bolt a section of 1913 rail to the stock and you're good to go. You can handle one at a Bass Pro Shop if you have one near by.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Yeah, that's a start, but how unsturdy and/or ugly might a P-rail attached to that plastic stock actually be? And likewise, exactly how do you sturdily & aesthetically attach a sling point to said plastic?

Plus, I'd like a mini action for the spectre.

Plus, I've had a couple of Howas and they're good except for one thing I don't like: the safety stops working once you adjust the trigger nut all the way to the "good end" of its adjustment range.

But thanks a lot - that's a good fallback option or starting point for the .280 at least. How hard or easy is it to change out the bbls on the Howa? Know of any 'smiths who do Howas or bbl-makers that make bbls for them?

 

[highorder]

Hey man, I just saw a pistol gripped rifle a few weeks back. I'm not your personal shopper.

I kid, I kid.

For what you want, a section of 1913 rail mounted with the proper screws would be rock solid. I wouldn't expect a laser to hold zero, but a VFG and a light will be fine. ditto for the single point sling. I can't speak to rebarreling a Howa, but I have been told they are similar enough to a Remington 700 that the same techniques apply.

 

[Wes Janson]

My goal is to make two of these similar rifles. One with a 10" bbl, SBR'ed with suppressor, .338 Spectre (short range quiet gun), and one with a 22" bbl in .280 Rem (long range loud gun). I'm pretty serious about this and have decided to sell nearly my entire collection (or whatever portion is necessary to raise the funds) to finance this, so I do need help to make the finished products come out the way I want them, since there will be fewer toys left at that point, so I'd better like and enjoy them.

Forgive me...but why? What specifically is it that you aim to accomplish to the exclusion of all else?

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Ahhh, the "Why"..... Besides just "why not", the spectre is for just a super fun range toy for "oohs" and "ahhs" and "WTH is THAT?"s

Also, the spectre is for hunting (without the suppressor or NV, unless they start allowing the NV for hogs), when I hunting near neighbors whom I don't want to rile up (again, sans suppressor - not legal to hunt with here). It's gonna be a subsonic loading ONLY proposition, and so it'll be quiet with OR without the suppressor. This rifle will also be the "walking / stalking hunter" in deep woods where shots don't go past 40 yards.

The .280 is just for the all-purpose big game hunter tailored exactly like I like it. It's the mountain / not mountain, woods / not woods, beanfield / not beanfield, west / not west, longtrek / shorttrek, all-purpose hunting rifle for anything and everything in N.A., medium, large, and very large, short of bison & large bears. Everything from yotes to moose. The spectre is also for the exact same range of species, but on a limited/ special use basis - deep woods and/or ruffled neighbors situations.

But big picture, the idea is simplification - I've finally figured out exactly what I WANT in longguns (for typical hunting -- besides rimfires, shotguns, combo guns, Africa/DG rifles, SHTF rifles, & collectibles), and want to get rid of the superfluous guns and spend more time & energy on the hunting guns. Actually most "collectibles" are already gone, and I'm getting rid of the few remaining that I have as well, except for one.

I was gonna simplify on a DPMS in .260 Rem, but decided I like turnbolts a lot better than semis for hunting for a variety of reasons: lighter, more "PC" for hunting in various places, easier on brass, more positive extraction, able to hotrod, easier to clean, easier to benchrest, more accurate, etc. So instead of going to one rifle for both hunting and SHTF, I'm going with these hunters and separate SHTF rifle.

 

[ArmedBear]

There's a reason that most turnbolts don't have pistol grips.

That said, I'd build it based on one of the receivers from these guys: http://www.tubegun.net/

They're best known for target rifles, but the system will do what you want, as well, and they want to cater to hunters, I think. You can use standard AR furniture and accessories, which should be the easiest way to put it together and have a pretty good variety of components to use.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

ArmedBear, I assume you're referring to the lack of ease of transitioning your shooting hand from P-grip to bolt cycling and back - correct? Anything else I'm missing though? It IS a bit slower than with a traditional stock, but will be still fast enough for my purposes, with practice.

I'm seriously thinking of getting this Alaskan Ti in .280 here:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=149489827

And then putting the Choate on it:

http://www.combatstocks.com/Choate_Ultimate_Sniper_FOLDING_Stock_for_Remington_Long_Action.cfm

Then adding the SP sling ring and bottom rail to it.

But that's a lot to pay for a (great) stock which I'm not going to use on the Alaskan Ti. Is there a ready aftermarket for this type of stock, or would finding a buyer for it be a few-and-far-between proposition?

As far as the tube gun goes, I'll look into it; thanks. But I should guess that the Alaskan Ti would end up a LOT lighter than even the lightest configuration of a tube gun setup... could be wrong, though.

Update: The Choate actually already has an "Anschutz-type T-rail" for accessories - what the heck is that? Will it take accesories made for picatinney rail?

My other option besides the Alaskan Ti route (cheaper route) would be to take this blued steel beat up Rem 700 action I have here (beater .30-06 700), and get the 24" .280 barrel I want from an appropriate maker, and have it mated. If I go this route, it won't be as light, and won't be a stainless steel receiver; but in that event, what barrel maker makes the best .280 barrel for a Remington, or who would you recommend?

 

[ArmedBear]

For that money, you might be able to build the tube gun and have much better furniture than that Choate, with a lot of options, including a folding stock if you want that.

(Yeah, I just meant cycling the bolt. If that's okay with you, I don't think there are other problems with it.)

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

OK, thanks again. Will definitely be investigating the tube gun - but I DON'T want a detachable mag (this idea was reinforced weekend before last when I lost the detachable to my T/C Icon on hunting trip ). I wonder if they can make a repeater without a D.M.....

Wait, nevermind - these actually ACCEPT the Rem 700 receiver; I see.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Bottom line here, AB (and others) is that the tube gun thing IS merely a "stock" of sorts. So that means the question of Choate vs. tube gun stock vs. other answers ONLY the "which stock" question.

I still need the action & barrel which leaves open the Alaskan Ti option. But that would probably make little sense because (a) the weight of the tube gun "stock" negates the weight savings advantage of the Alaskan Ti, and (b) I'd still be paying $1,700 for a rifle as a result of (in part) the fancy composite stock, which would end up as an extra part.

Regardless of whether I go tube gun or not, it may be a better idea to get a barrel mated to this existing beater action I have, but particularly if I go with the tube gun thing.

If I go with the Alaskan Ti, it would make sense to run with the Choate or other rather than the tube gun "stock", for weight savings.

It really comes down to how light I WANT it, and whether I'm willing to pay the premium for that weight savings. Given that I'm selling a lot to finance this, and plan for it to be my go-to for decades to come, I'd ought to get exactly what I want (this time). Any issues with the longevity of the titanium 700 action?

Another thing is, on the tube gun, it looks like, from a cursory glance, that the ONLY "handguard" option is the round one without a rail and without holes for mounting a rail. That would nix that option.

If you're wondering why I'm so insistent on this feature, it became clear to me during the last few weeks of hunting, then when I'm "ambush" hunting, I definitely need a prominent protrusion or contour of SOME kind (such as a forward P-grip) on the front stock / handguard area, because this prevents slipping down when sitting in certain positions for hours on end with the rifle in lap pointing downward - keep having to pull the rifle back up as my grip slips, and mere checkering or even a really roughed up stock ain't gonna cut it. I need a contour for my offhand to hold the rifle "in toward" my body. It doesn't have to be an actual forward P-grip, but needs to be a substantial contour. So, yes, I could hack up a wood stock to produce such a contour (or for that matter mount a rail on a wood stock), but I'm getting the rear P-grip in any event, and there'd just be something butt-ugly-blasphemous about a wood stock mangled as such, including attaching the P-grip to it - even if the P-grip is made of wood.

Also, if anyone is wondering, the reason for the REAR P-grip is not really the P-grip itself - It's the dadblamed $#%^*^%%$#@ *length* between where your shooting hand sits (your bottom three fingers) on a standard stock and the trigger. It is beyond my comprehension why the ergonomics engineers at gun companies have determined that on an EBR, the proper distance when shooting between middle finger and trigger/shooting finger should be measured in millimeters, but those SAME HANDS grabbing a "hunting" rifle suddenly need to have the distance measured in several centimeters. If anything, given the steeper *angle* of the shooting hand on a traditional stock, the hand needs to be further *forward* than on a P-grip stock, not further backwards, as they are.

I'd love *nothing more* than to have the "traditional built-in-P-grip-stock", but with the curve moved forward about an inch or so. So if anyone knows how to move the trigger back an inch or cut an inch of length out of the neck of the stock just forward of the curve without ruining the stock, then god bless and by all means please let me know!

Anyone know what an "Anchutz-type T-rail" is?

Which barrel makers make a strong 7mm barrel in a light hunting weight for Remingtons? What twist - 9, 10, what? I'm thinking 10, as I'll likely never go bigger than 160s.

 

[kentucky_smith]

Just thinking out loud but I wonder how a left-handed bolt would work with a pistol grip holding it righty?


Since we're thinking about obscure and bizarre.


( I would personally simplify with a .300 Whisper and either 6.8/6.5 uppers)