Weirdness with .45ACP reloads
- Thread starter Charlie98
- Start date
What's minimum COL for 45 ACP?
SingleActionAndrew
Member
- Joined
- May 28, 2021
- Messages
- 297
I shot a match last month next to a guy shooting lead slugs (no nose, like a full wadcutter) in 45acp seated flush with the case mouth. I think he won the 2700 and the SP EIC like that. SAMMI etc aside I think it's whatever will cycle. Magazine feed lips make a big difference
CQB45ACP
Member
CQB45ACP
Member
Mine is all about feeding reliably but have never even thought about something like that regardless of COL
OP
OP
Charlie98
Member
Those 2 bullets are what I have loaded in the past... or reasonable facsimiles thereof. I have had issues with one of my Kimbers (the 4" ProCarry) feeding SWC's seated a 'thumbnail' out, but not in the Eclipse, which is why I wanted to seat these a little long... they were intended for the ProCarry.
That's my idea, anyway. They weren't intended for that pistol, but that's where we are at.
ETA: That could also give me justification to buy a .45ACP revolver...
Last edited:
OP
OP
Charlie98
Member
Interesting. Max COL for the .45ACP is 1.275", mine are seated at 1.250"... 'that much bullet' sticking out of the case shouldn't be an issue.
That's not how max COL works. Most bullets do not get loaded to the max COL. SWCs never get loaded to max COL. Different SWCs have different COL. The Lyman manual I have downloaded on the computer I'm working off of right now has 2 200 grain SWCs listed. One is closer to the H&G 68 and it's listed at 1.235, the other one is closer to the bullet shown with 2 lube grooves and is listed as an COL of 1.161. The only bullet that shows the max COL is the 230 grain FMJ.
NMexJim
Member
As Frog says, if you want to quit having those "at the range" moments, buy a gage. I don't care if it's Wilson or Hornady or Lyman or whatever, it's the only way I know of to reliably load for several pistols of the same caliber. Mine stay right on my bench.
I have had what happened to you happen to me. No more.
ballman6711
Member
"Shouldn't be"
I load my swc's, both 185gr and 200gr, to about 1.245"-1.247". Any longer and I have issues with that tight barrel. Even my 230gr fmj reloads won't chamber in that barrel with a COL longer than 1.260", and I usually go a bit shorter to ensure reliability. They may not have run a finish reamer through it, or the reamer may have been at the end of it's serviceable life, I don't know. I've thought about having it reamed but it shoots so well I'd rather not mess with it. And since any round that works in that gun works in the others, I just make sure everything gets loaded for that gun.
Shoot them in the gun they chamber in, and if your friend sends you another batch just set them up to work in the tighter barrels.
chris
Can't remember where I got the info, but all the 45 ACP SWC handloads I put together the bullet was seated to the top of the shoulder. Some 185 gr. commercial cast, a bunch of 200 gr. home cast (both conventual lube groove and Lee micro groove).
I load every SWC the same, my seating stem seats off of the shoulder.
I can change from a 200gr SWC to an 160gr button nose and everything in between and they all seat to 1/16 of the shoulder showing.
CQB45ACP
Member
I guess your COL is the same provided bullets are same dimensions lengthwise. But OP’s aren’t do you think?
Alaskamike
Member
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2020
- Messages
- 229
I think mdi nailed it. In this case, with that bullet design, the seating depth is less about COL, and more about how much of the shoulder (front band) is exposed.
I have a slightly different, but similar bullet that I have to seat to 1.190" COL before it would feed reliably in both my 1911s and a Sig P220. That mold was from an old Lee group buy on the Castboolits site, and is basically a Lyman 452423 minus the crimp groove and middle band.
I have a slightly different, but similar bullet that I have to seat to 1.190" COL before it would feed reliably in both my 1911s and a Sig P220. That mold was from an old Lee group buy on the Castboolits site, and is basically a Lyman 452423 minus the crimp groove and middle band.
OP
OP
Charlie98
Member
I would agree... it's not about the COL, it's about the front driving band. As I mentioned, they plunked, and chambered from a magazine fine... in certain pistols.
Here's what's interesting... if I am to believe my notes. CQB mentioned those two bullets he has loaded, and I've got load notes from 2020 when all I could get was some Rainier plated SWC's. I loaded those to 1.265"... I don't know why, it must have been in one of my data sources, very likely Alliant, because I was testing SportPistol and BE-86 at the time. Granted, and as CQB's photo shows, the ogive on the plated bullet is longer when compared to my cast bullet... so there is something to that; I don't remember an excessive amount of bullet shoulder sticking out. I didn't have the 5" Kimber at that time, and they shot very well in the Eclipse, as well as the ProCarry... when they would feed, for they had a tendency to hang a little in the ProCarry.
I was just curious what everyone else has seen or experienced. I don't think I'll get any more of these, my friend actually bought a different mould for 200grn .45's... so that's probably the end of them.
CQB45ACP
Member
Well it gives me a headache so I just keep it simple and pretend life’s that way too
Good luck
epags
Member
Jim Watson
Member
Some people go by a head-to-SWC shoulder measurement; .936" is on the high side, I have seen as low as .924".
gwpercle
Member
Seat the bullet deeper into the case .
You have too much driving band showing ...
Old School instructions is to have a Thumb Nails thickness of the top driving band showing above the case mouth . Why a Thumb Nails thickness ... I don't know ...but , so loaded they will feed just fine .
I once tried no driving band showing , top of band flush with case mouth ... Didn't Work ! I don't know why but to feed properly you need that small amount of top driving band above the case mouth ...
... If your thumb nail is thin ,,,then allow two thumb nail thicknesses to protrude , I would call it about
1/32" or so ... I never measured , just left ... = the space from the bottom and top line in the = is about right ... can't find my ruler when I need it !
epags reload in post #42 photo shows it exactly ...mine look like round on the left ...Perfect !
Thanks for posting photo epags ... a picture is worth a thousand words !
Gary
You have too much driving band showing ...
Old School instructions is to have a Thumb Nails thickness of the top driving band showing above the case mouth . Why a Thumb Nails thickness ... I don't know ...but , so loaded they will feed just fine .
I once tried no driving band showing , top of band flush with case mouth ... Didn't Work ! I don't know why but to feed properly you need that small amount of top driving band above the case mouth ...
... If your thumb nail is thin ,,,then allow two thumb nail thicknesses to protrude , I would call it about
1/32" or so ... I never measured , just left ... = the space from the bottom and top line in the = is about right ... can't find my ruler when I need it !
epags reload in post #42 photo shows it exactly ...mine look like round on the left ...Perfect !
Thanks for posting photo epags ... a picture is worth a thousand words !
Gary
Last edited:
ballman6711
Member
I also recall reading about .930" from base to shoulder of bullet. The swc's feed great in my three Kimbers. I would say they are flawless, but I do get one once in awhile that hangs up, usually due to the gun needing cleaning.
chris
chris
CQB45ACP
Member
I use 14 magazines each week. When I shot SWCs routinely I could tell you which mags would contribute to poor chambering because round was too short, etc.
It wasn’t the pistol causing problems usually.
Now unfortunately I don’t recall any of it.
OP
OP
Charlie98
Member
Again, now that I've looked at my loading notes from prior loadings...
The SWC I loaded recently is not of the same design as a standard .45ACP SWC... like those shown above, or even like those I've loaded prior. The COL I loaded them to made sense, it was the same COL I had just loaded some 200grn PRN bullets to, with the same powder recipe, and the case mouth lined up with the lube groove/crimp groove. My previous COL, with a standard SWC, I loaded even longer... so it is not an issue with the COL, it's an issue with the bullet. As my freshman history teacher always said 'Hindsight is always 20/20...' and in this case, had I actually sat down and thought about it, I would have just saved those bullets for the .45 Colt... which is probably what they were intended for. If I had seated those bullets to a 'thumbnail,' I think the COL would have been too short, and the amount of bullet in the case would have necessitated reworking the entire load for just that bullet... something I didn't want to do considering the very limited amount of bullets I had.
This is one of the things I love about handloading. Most times, the stars align, and you get a very good cartridge... and then every once in a while, the Reloading Gods decide to show you how much you really don't know... and throw a monkey wrench into the mix. In over 30 years of handloading... and the .45ACP was the first cartridge I handloaded for... I've never had a problem like this. Granted, I've never had 3 different .45's at the same time, either... The good news is... this is an easy problem to solve, and if I'm more the wiser going forward, then it wasn't for naught.
The SWC I loaded recently is not of the same design as a standard .45ACP SWC... like those shown above, or even like those I've loaded prior. The COL I loaded them to made sense, it was the same COL I had just loaded some 200grn PRN bullets to, with the same powder recipe, and the case mouth lined up with the lube groove/crimp groove. My previous COL, with a standard SWC, I loaded even longer... so it is not an issue with the COL, it's an issue with the bullet. As my freshman history teacher always said 'Hindsight is always 20/20...' and in this case, had I actually sat down and thought about it, I would have just saved those bullets for the .45 Colt... which is probably what they were intended for. If I had seated those bullets to a 'thumbnail,' I think the COL would have been too short, and the amount of bullet in the case would have necessitated reworking the entire load for just that bullet... something I didn't want to do considering the very limited amount of bullets I had.
This is one of the things I love about handloading. Most times, the stars align, and you get a very good cartridge... and then every once in a while, the Reloading Gods decide to show you how much you really don't know... and throw a monkey wrench into the mix. In over 30 years of handloading... and the .45ACP was the first cartridge I handloaded for... I've never had a problem like this. Granted, I've never had 3 different .45's at the same time, either...
The good news is... this is an easy problem to solve, and if I'm more the wiser going forward, then it wasn't for naught.The standard measurement quoted on the Bullseye Forum is .920 from base to shoulder, they will also crimp down as low as .463 sometimes which many people say is too much.
These are shooters wanting 100% reliability and getting 1.5-2 inch groups at 50 yards, so I pay attention.
OP
OP
Charlie98
Member
As a follow up... I went to the range today on the way to bowling. The 200grn RMR PRN's performed as I expected they would... that is, combat accurate with very little recoil. The 200grn cast bullets did about the same, accuracy wise, but the recoil impulse was a little sharper. No jams, no problems with the slide returning to battery, no nothing. They shot well enough, but not anything I'm going to repeat. The SWC accuracy I've seen prior did not show up, but I expect these are pushing max as far as velocity and/or pressure. I'll take them with me to NV at Christmas, I'mma run them over the chronograph just to satisfy my curiosity.
