Well...it almost made 500 rounds

[MadMercS55]

Few years back I went through a bunch of parts on a Springfield Mil-Spec. First was the ejector, snapped off during recoil after about 300rnds, the extractor hook snapped off at the 450rnd point. Both replaced with stock Springfield parts. 700rnds I had the same problem as the original poster, the hammer hooks failed. Again fixed by Springfield. 1000rnd mark the ejector snapped off again and I had enough. Again replaced by Springfield and sold the thing off at a loss. I have had poor experiences with Kimbers as well over the years. I'm kinda 1911-shy now I guess you could say, but I do own a SIG GSR Revo that's been flawless from day one.

 

[Trebor]

I'd heard that Colt does not use MIM for any of the vital parts, such as the lockwork and the extractor. Does anyone have the real info on this?

 

[Billy Sparks]

I don't think Correia is any more a 1911 fan than anyone else. That said if truely gripes me when someone posts a "how do I fix this" and the only advice someone has is that that gun platform, be it 1911, Glock, S&W, Sig, etc, is a POS and you need to get the "correct" platform.

Okay I need a Diet Pepsi or more sleep.

 

[Bosko]

Parts is Parts

Greetings from The New Guy! While not new to shooting, carrying, and instructing, I am relatively new to the 1911 platform. I have two Kimbers. Each has over 1000 rounds through them. I have never had an MIM part break, although both have been back to Kimber for other issues. My Nighthawk Custom Predator III has no MIM parts. I recently completed the 500 round break-in without so much as a hiccup, without cleaning the pistol (as recommended by NHC). I see that 1911tuner posts here so I am priveged to be in good company.

 

[ugaarguy]

Bosko, welcome to THR! Enjoy your time here, and we look forward to learning from your experience as you share it.

 

[45auto]

Springfield does offer "tool-steel" parts in their custom shop. Maybe they will "cut you a deal" since the gun is already at Springfield.

Colt uses MIM sears and disconnectors.

 

[1911Tuner]

Welcome

Hey hey Bosko! Good to see ya!

 

[deacon]

Anyone know firsthand the quality of the " tool steel " parts that Springfield uses in the custom shop ?

Thanks for all the replies so far....some good stuff.

 

[1911Tuner]

Colt MIM

Trevor,

Colt uses MIM for its sears and disconnects. They're the only major manufacturer that used MIM extractors for a while, and learned from the experience. They've gone back to barstock, and from what I've seen, they're very good...and may actually be spring-tempered 1090. The few that I've tweaked seem to be pretty springy.

There's good MIM and there's crap MIM. I took a large hammer to a Colt MIM sear...convex side up on an anvil...and couldn't break it until I really slammed it. A sideways whack bent the legs, but didn't break one. The disconnect didn't fare as well, though even it took several hits before it broke. I have a foursome of 1991A1 Colts that are my hard-use beaters, fired an average of 1500 rounds each month, collectively. Two are '91 production with MIM disconnects and barstock sears. One is a mid-90s pistol with both parts made from MIM, as is the 2001 NRM pistol. The two early guns are approaching 140,000 rounds each, and still have the original disconnects. The mid-production is at about
25,000+ and still has both original parts. The NRM is at about the same point, and both parts have been replaced due to wear...at about the 10-12,000 round mark. The MIM extractor in it didn't last a thousand rounds.

I've seen other MIM parts from various manufactures fail early on, and others that have imitated the Energizer Bunny. I've about come to the conclusion that if an MIM part is going to fail, it'll generally do it early. If it goes past about a thousand rounds, it'll likely hold up. Note that this observation is based on my own experience and is an opinion...nothing more. You may have one go for 12-1500 rounds and fly apart the next time you fire the gun.

One thing that you can count on. Love it or hate it...MIM is here to stay.
I predict that as the technology progresses, one day you'll see pistols made entirely from MIM...barrels and all...and they'll consistently outlast the best forged barstock or billet steel that we're using today. But...until that day comes, I'll stick with real steel in serious-purpose pistols.

 

[1911JMB]

I've got a GI that has seen a round count in the 4 digit range. It used to jam until I had reliability work done, and now its trouble free. Seeing as I'll be carrying it in less than a year, I must ask, does anyone think I should replace the hammer with a Wilson hammer or something to avoid this same problem? Or is it likely not an issue?

 

[deacon]

1911JMB....

If you are going to be carrying it, consider it a high priority issue. I just thank God that it happened at the range....otherwise I might not be typing this.

 

[Zerstoerer]

Buckets of Glocks

Correia (Moderator or Censor?) wrote: "Zerstoerer, if you don't have anything useful to add, don't bother to post.

There are five gallon buckets full of broken Glocks at the Federal Law Enforcement Traning Center in Georgia.

Anything can break. Deal with it."

Correia - please add something useful. After how many hundred thousand rounds did the Glocks fail at FLETC? I am sure it was more that 500 shots.

I say it again - all 1911 are outdated and overrated. And 1911 owners are emotional attached to them blinding them to see the light which comes in the form and shape of Glocks, HKs and SiGs. Especially at FLETC.

 

[Big Gay Al]

I've got a springfield 1911 that my father gave me for christmas about 6 years ago and it was my first pistol and my first 1911. Now I think my next serious pistol is going to be a colt WWI repro that I will use for target shooting and the occasional trek into the woods, but mostly I use and still will use my springfield to do all the dirty work that you wouldn't want to use a "pretty" gun for. My springfield was bought used, I am pretty sure that was before they used MIM stuff (1994).

The next handgun I will buy after the Colt WWI repro is going to be a springfield GI, but I plan on making that a cheap WWII repro. So I will be replacing most of the MIM stuff.

If you're not willing to get it dirty, I wouldn't buy it.

Some people would likely have a heart attack at my last pistol combat course. The instructor took a students nice looking Glock/XD (I don't know which, all I know was it was a "fantastic plastic" type pistol.) and dropped it in the sand, stepped on it, picked up, blew the sand and dirt off, and then fired it.

Before that, he did the same thing with one of his own guns, a really nice looking Colt 1911, 9mm. I was amazed at first. Then he got me to thinking.

His point, guns are tools, don't be afraid to get them dirty. Would you worry about getting grease on a screw driver?

 

[ugaarguy]

Zerstoerer,

Deacon, the original poster started this thread to ask for help with his 1911, not have it bashed by you or anyone else. Correia adressed it and asked you contribute to the thread constructively. You did not listen, and your actions are now trolling. Stop trolling and 1911 bashing. Offer constructive advice. Here's an example;

"Deacon, while I prefer Glocks, if you wish to keep your 1911 here is what I would do. Rather than send it back to Springfield, perhaps you should order a new forged hammer from Wilson Combat to replace your broken one from SA. Then you'll be assured the highest quality replacement part.

-Zerstoerer"

See how easy that was? Correia tried to be nice. If you won't listen to a moderator maybe you'll listen to me, a fellow member.

 

[1911Tuner]

Moderator or Censor

Yo! Zerstoerer! You are cordially invited to bring your GlockSig/USP over to my house and pit it against an overrated, outdated old slabsided pistol in a game of follow the leader. You pick any one of a dozen that I put on the table. Bring lots of ammo and magazines...or a friend to keep your mags loaded while you try to keep up. First one to choke pays for the other's ammo.

When I got home I took the barrel out and looked at those top lugs and found the middle lug was starting to get peened


Now then...Correia's job as a moderator is to keep the thread on-topic and related to the discussion at hand. Sometimes they go off on a tangent, and have to be realigned...but hijacking it without adding anything to the discussion other than "Brand X is Crap! Buy Brand Y" is generally frowned on. If you want to start a thread on how bad you hate any given platform, feel free to do so...and you can make your points there.

Have a nice day...

 

[Correia]

I apologize in advance for the upcoming thread drift, but I do believe that I just got called out.

So far this week I've been called a commisar, komrade, and now a censor. So apparently I'm worth those big bucks that Oleg pays me.

Zerstoerer, dude, I'm trying to help you. The guy had a question about brand X, your response was to buy brand Y, which if you think about it, is pretty useless. If he wanted brand Y, he would have gotten one.

Now I'm going to harp on you, not censor you. It is different. If I wanted to censor you, I would just make your post go away, but that isn't how we do stuff on THR.

Glocks are not perfect. Contrary to the witty marketing slogan, nothing is perfection. They do break, they do jam. In fact, shocking as it may seem, everything breaks or jams. If your particular favorite gun in the universe hasn't jammed, then you haven't shot it enough yet.

A hundred thousand rounds? Somebody has been reading too much Chuck Taylor. Guess what? Just because you read it in a magazine doesn't make it true either. There are about a dozen posters on this board who write for gun magazines also, and I don't think any of us are the fountain of all knowledge, and yes, I'm willing to bet that some of us have seen your favorite gun malf also.

Glocks are good guns. So are about fifteen other major brands. So what? Just because Tommy Lee Jones said it was the best doesn't make it so. So relax. Pull up a chair, and maybe you will learn something.

And strangely enough, some of the best professional door kickers in the world go with the obsolete, archaic, piece of crap, 1911. They must not have gotten your memo. And interestingly enough, these tend to be the units that get to pick/pay for their own equipment, rather than going under a large department's umbrella.

Now large departments tend to run with Glock as general issue. That much is true. But at $289 bulk law enforcement price, that doesn't exactly shock me.

Now this wasn't meant to be a brand X bashing thread. So I'm going to walk away. If you want to call me out and argue, please go start another thread.

And I don't even mind Glocks.

 

[kikr]

Thats why I carry a Glock.

 

[the pistolero]

Tuner, I went looking for the Springer through the Wringer thread, and all I can say is, just...wow. "Gave it a couple of shakes, slapped another magazine in it and commenced firin'." Priceless, my friend, absolutely priceless. I think I'll stick with that overrated, outdated slabside pistol. As for Gaston's plastic pistol and its worshippers, well, I'll just leave that one be, although I will say I had considered getting a Glock 20, until the recent mass infusion of cash into my bank account. Stay tuned for more on that, though.

 

[1911Tuner]

re:

kikr...I don't allow plastic pistols in the yard.

On topic, gol-dangit! MIM's gotta go!

 

[mattw]

Some people would likely have a heart attack at my last pistol combat course. The instructor took a students nice looking Glock/XD (I don't know which, all I know was it was a "fantastic plastic" type pistol.) and dropped it in the sand, stepped on it, picked up, blew the sand and dirt off, and then fired it.

The only person that would be having a heart attack if someone did something like that to one of my weapons would be the instructor as he picked his own teeth up off the ground. Handguns are tools, this is true. But I don't stand by and let people abuse my tools.

 

[NMGlocker]

I'm an instructor who will on occasion throw my own pistol into the dirt to prove a point.
.
.
.
But if someone else threw it into the dirt, we'd have a problem.

 

[Demiurge]

Springfield's customer service is top notch. I've read a few posts, and some are denouncing the brand because of one problem someone had? Obviously it's your right to do it, but all manufacturers have some guy posting on some forum somewhere saying the same thing about a different gun.

Their failure rates aren't high, and given that the always take care of you.

Any machine can fail, and they will. Just like humans. Some of the near brand bashing would be justified if the failures were happening with any modicum frequency.

 

[Geno]

Awesome thread (those on topic)

Thanks to all who contributed here on topic. I have heard many people discuss the merits of MIM and have doubts, but, they say the proof is in the pudding. 1911tuner has certainly tested that pudding and the results impress! Yet, inspite of the facts, a doubt prangs in my brain. Is it that I am simply hesitant to trust MIM, or is it the "probability" factor? Which has a higher "p" value (probability value of failing). I assume that bar stock has the lower "p" value. This fact has had me concerned enough to consider changing out all of the MIM parts in my 1911s, even though to date they have been tremendously reliable. I can't really add anything of subtance to the advancement of a positional arguement here re: is one better or inferior to the other, but I did want to post this all the same, to express my appreciation to all who have added to my understanding of metalurgy. Great thread! Thanks!

Doc2005

 

[HSMITH]

FWIW, the C&S drop in fire control parts are made by Extreme Engineering, and about $20 cheaper if you get them in the EE bag instead of the C&S bag. They are VERY good parts, well worth the cost. In most guns they will drop in and run great with a VERY nice trigger quality.

 

[Old Fuff]

There is more to the issue then a simple black & white, "MIM parts are good," or "no they're not!" The real question has too do with the quality of the part(s), and if MIM technology can produce a certain part (depending on what it is) that's equal to one made out of high-carbon steel.

Addressing quality: It should be remembered that with the possible exception of Kimber, the rest of the gun makers buy these parts from outside vendors. As a consequence they have little direct control over the finished parts' quality, and are dependent on whatever quality assurance program the part(s) makers may have in place. Then because the prime reason they are buying MIM parts in the first place is to reduce manufacturing costs, there is a tendency to buy from the lowest cost vendor. This seldom means the highest quality parts(s). If the gun maker switches to a different sub-contractor who has offered a lower bid, gun buyers may suddenly find that what was satisfactory before suddenly isn't now.

Not all applications lend themselves to MIM technology. Two examples are extractors and mainspring struts. To that list I would add sears, hammers, firing pin stops, magazine latches slide stops, disconectors and safety locks (manual safeties). These parts have knife edges that can crumble or are placed under considerable strain, and/or frequent impacts.

All of this hardly matters if the pistol in not used in a weapon context. When it is the issue becomes critical. While part failure may or may not be common, the possibilities are enough to turn me toward "real steel" parts that have proven their reliability over 95 years. Changing simply to save a little money doesn't impress me if my neck might be at stake.