Gun Geezer
Member
I would suggest a go/no-go gauge.
Well, I've done it.
- Thread starter Officers'Wife
- Start date
- Status
LiveLife
Member
Gun Geezer, did you mean case gauge vs go/no go gauge set?
I use go and no go gauges for assembling AR uppers to check for proper headspacing but would recommend case gauge to ensure the finished rounds' dimensions are within SAAMI specs
I use go and no go gauges for assembling AR uppers to check for proper headspacing but would recommend case gauge to ensure the finished rounds' dimensions are within SAAMI specs
OP
OP
Officers'Wife
Member
LiveLife
Member
Gun manufacturers produce barrel chambers to SAAMI dimensions (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute) - http://www.saami.org/Officers'Wife said:
Max cartridge gauge (or case gauge) are used by reloaders to check whether their finished cartridges are within SAAMI specifications. So if the rounds pass the case gauge, they will fully chamber in any firearm manufactured to SAAMI dimensions.
Sometimes due to manufacturing process or shipping/handling roughness (shipping companies are notorious for dropping heavy bullet boxes), bullets can become out of round and this can caused the finished rounds to bulge (think oval instead of round) the brass enough to not allow the rounds to fully chamber. We often call these rounds "out of spec" which means they are not within SAAMI dimensions.
If your finished rounds won't fully chamber in your barrel, it won't fire as most firearms are made to not fire out of battery. To fix these rounds, Lee Precision makes Factory Crimp Die (which is a crimp die with a carbide sizer ring at the opening of the die) that restores finished rounds to SAAMI dimensions by "post sizing" the loaded rounds.
As to go/no go headspace gauges, I use them when attaching barrel to AR upper receiver to check the chamber length/head space. If the chamber is too short, the cartridge will not fully chamber. The go gauge is a copy of cartridge made to SAAMI dimensions and no go gauge is made longer than SAAMI max dimensions. If the chamber will pass a no go gauge, the chamber is too long. If the chamber will not pass a go gauge, the chamber is too short.
If you are not assembling firearms, I would not worry about go/no go gauge but you may want to consider getting a max case gauge. For pistol loads, many of us just use the barrel with the tightest chamber we have unless you load for multiple pistols and want to ensure your rounds will work in all of them.
Did I slow down enough for you?
Last edited:
OP
OP
Officers'Wife
Member
Got it, thank you.
Keep in mind, I'm not familiar with this stuff yet. If it helps, remember I'm a woman!
Keep in mind, I'm not familiar with this stuff yet. If it helps, remember I'm a woman!
LiveLife
Member
You sound like my wife/daughter who are "hands on" type and like to get to the details of things.
While my wife just likes to shoot the reloads, my teenage daughter is interested in the details of the reloading process. So far, she has mastered the essence of sorting range brass to separate by caliber and look for non-brass/damaged cases to cull. She even likens the resizing of brass to "resistance workout" for her upper body.
BTW, I will use resized brass in my progressive presses to produce greater OAL/COL consistency like Walkalong as it creates less shell plate tilt/deflection but until you load on a progressive press, you won't need to worry about that. With your 38 Special rounds, you do need to worry about consistent case lengths for more consistent roll crimp into the crimp groove of the bullets.
My daughter said reloading is like working a jigsaw puzzle. There are many pieces (processes) that come together to form the picture (finished rounds).
While my wife just likes to shoot the reloads, my teenage daughter is interested in the details of the reloading process. So far, she has mastered the essence of sorting range brass to separate by caliber and look for non-brass/damaged cases to cull. She even likens the resizing of brass to "resistance workout" for her upper body.
BTW, I will use resized brass in my progressive presses to produce greater OAL/COL consistency like Walkalong as it creates less shell plate tilt/deflection but until you load on a progressive press, you won't need to worry about that. With your 38 Special rounds, you do need to worry about consistent case lengths for more consistent roll crimp into the crimp groove of the bullets.
My daughter said reloading is like working a jigsaw puzzle. There are many pieces (processes) that come together to form the picture (finished rounds).
Last edited:
OP
OP
Officers'Wife
Member
OAL/COL? Oookkkaaay...
What I'm thinking is having hubby drill out a laminated wood block planed down to the exact length with a sliding door on the bottom. If I put the cartridges in the holes I can line of sight the length. (Any too long are going to be above the top and too short a noticeable bit below. Also I can look "overhead" and any "out of round" should stand out in the round hole. After inspection just open the gate and they fall out. (Or dump them out whichever is easiest.
LiveLife
Member
You not only bake pastries but looks like you are also a smart cookie.
I think you'll do fine with reloading.
I think you'll do fine with reloading.
OP
OP
Officers'Wife
Member
LiveLife
Member
For me, ultimate goal of reloading is accuracy.
And consistency will produce accuracy by generating more consistent chamber pressures, muzzle velocities and lower SD numbers on the chrono (lower SD number is better, preferrably below 10 but below 20 will work "good enough").
As long as you aim to produce more consistent finished cartridge dimensions, more accurate your reloads will be.
And consistency will produce accuracy by generating more consistent chamber pressures, muzzle velocities and lower SD numbers on the chrono (lower SD number is better, preferrably below 10 but below 20 will work "good enough").
As long as you aim to produce more consistent finished cartridge dimensions, more accurate your reloads will be.
OP
OP
Officers'Wife
Member
My attitude is simple to state, a rifle that can't be depended on to hit the target is a fashion accessory. I don't do fashion. The sole reason for having the rifle I am loading for is because Indiana made the caliber legal for harvesting deer. We do not wound animals here, they are harvested cleanly or they are allowed to go their way. An inaccurate rifle whether the machine or ammunition cannot be used. Needless to say, my standards on accuracy are extremely high. If my efforts cannot satisfy my standards, the press & dies will go to my brother who can produce the quality.
That act would be admitting to him I can't do it... Satan will be issuing insulated coats and longjohns before that's going to happen.
I don't know anything about chrono, my benchmark is the ball going to the target in an acceptable amount of drift. That drift will be measured at 75 yards even though I will not take a shot any further than 30.
mmorris
Member
Some tools are better bought than made...
L.E. Wilson Case Length Gage 38 Special
Product Total $22.99
Shipping Total $4.99
Grand Total $27.98
Wood cannot provide the dimensional stability to serve at the required tolerances. I suggest that the effort to fabricate an alternative wooden gauge be converted into gainful employment to produce the $30 to buy a gauge that will be the same size at 20% Relative Humidity as it will at 85% RH.
The actual chamber would be your other choice.
L.E. Wilson Case Length Gage 38 Special
Product Total $22.99
Shipping Total $4.99
Grand Total $27.98
Wood cannot provide the dimensional stability to serve at the required tolerances. I suggest that the effort to fabricate an alternative wooden gauge be converted into gainful employment to produce the $30 to buy a gauge that will be the same size at 20% Relative Humidity as it will at 85% RH.
The actual chamber would be your other choice.
Lost Sheep
Member
I had the same thought as mmorris about the accuracy that can be had from a wood-based measuring device that depends on the human eye, but he beat me to the post. We also come to different recommendations.
I recommend a good set of calipers or micrometer. "Go-no go" gauges will do, too, and are simpler to use, but I prefer calipers as more versatile, though more demanding of the user.
Now, I recognize that the human eye is surprisingly good at detecting irregularities in concentricity, alignment and evenness, but the ability to objectively put a real number to a dimension within 0.001" his well worth the price of the tool.
Note: COAL, COL and OAL are the same thing. Cartridge OverAll Length (if you haven't figured that out already.
Chronographs are nice, and I imagine your brother has one you could borrow any time you want. Group size will indicate if your ammo is accurate enough to hit your game in the right place to take it cleanly. The chronograph will tell you if the velocity (power and momentum) is great enough to reach vital organs. Also, if your velocity is very consistent (low "Standard Deviation" or "SD"), it is more likely to be accurate than ammo that has a higher SD. No guarantees, but a large SD usually indicates ammunition that will not group well. (Essentially, I am reiterating what BDS said in post 60). At 30 yards, though, SD may not be that critical.
Making sure your velocity is proper is important. The velocities you get by reading the loading manuals are usually good enough, but a Chronograph is reassuring.
Lost Sheep
mmorris
Member
You are right Lost Sheep, but I was thinking Officer’s Wife might be better off with a max case gauge, if only for the lower dollar amount vs. good calipers and mics.
However, my main reason is the skill level difference between a gauge and precision measuring tools. Gauge use – mastered the first day… precision measuring tools, not so much.
That said, I won’t be surprised when she pops up and recounts that summer when she worked in a diesel shop rebuilding injector pumps…
However, my main reason is the skill level difference between a gauge and precision measuring tools. Gauge use – mastered the first day… precision measuring tools, not so much.
That said, I won’t be surprised when she pops up and recounts that summer when she worked in a diesel shop rebuilding injector pumps…
There are literally hundreds of vernier calipers on ebay. Many are no doubt junk
and there are many that are quite good quality. Research the brand names before buying. The older style with only the vernier scale and the ones with the dial indicators that are known brand names will likely be the best value.
It takes all of a few minutes to learn how to read one. You really need one if you are going to reload.
We kinda thought Tippiecanoe country was "buffalo " country rather than cattle country, the scaled kind that is.
But what do we know. How about "Tippie Canoe and Tyler too". OYE
and there are many that are quite good quality. Research the brand names before buying. The older style with only the vernier scale and the ones with the dial indicators that are known brand names will likely be the best value.
It takes all of a few minutes to learn how to read one. You really need one if you are going to reload.
We kinda thought Tippiecanoe country was "buffalo " country rather than cattle country, the scaled kind that is.
But what do we know. How about "Tippie Canoe and Tyler too". OYE
Last edited:
OP
OP
Officers'Wife
Member
You are right Lost Sheep, but I was thinking Officer’s Wife might be better off with a max case gauge, if only for the lower dollar amount vs. good calipers and mics.
However, my main reason is the skill level difference between a gauge and precision measuring tools. Gauge use – mastered the first day… precision measuring tools, not so much.
That said, I won’t be surprised when she pops up and recounts that summer when she worked in a diesel shop rebuilding injector pumps…
Sorry Morris, my only experience with rebuilding injector pumps is paying the bill to have it done. I have a little experience with scale from doing soil samples and some with micrometers from my uncle but I'm far from expert at either. For the moment the wood blocks will have to do simply because I'm not willing to spend any more money until I've gained a bit more skill in the craft.
And Oye, Tippecanoe is wolf country, White county has the buffalo outside the town of ... Buffalo. I am in Jasper county home of the Karlock ranch. Before Stony Pike and Joliet stockyards closed down in ancient times this area had more cows than people. Between Fair Oak farms and our own humble contribution the ratio is still rather large.
splattergun
Member
Mighty clever!
TBJK
Member
Never underestimate someone's ability to learn as long as they willing to learn. I feel you will pick it up just like baking. Don't give up. Be cautious of making precision instruments out of wood as they will change with the temp & humidity more than metals. A case holder out of wood will be fine.
- Status
