Well over 5K rounds out of my 1911, now some maintenance questions.

[chaim]

I am well over 5000 rounds through my Charles Daly now, I stopped counting a while ago so I don't know exactly where it is but I'd guess around 6K now.

Anyway, everyone says the springs wear out at about 5K. I'm not going to touch the mainspring so long as I still can ignite the primers of my rounds reliably because the trigger is now quite sweet and I don't want to mess with that. I am aware that one should replace the firing pin spring at 5K and that is on my list and will be simple enough.

However, I have no idea what weight recoil spring these guns are designed for. I don't want to buy one that is either too light or too heavy because I don't want to deal with any possible unintended consequences. Anyone know what weight spring is spec?

Also, I went too long with the weakened recoil spring and now my ejector (the part on the frame, not the extractor which is in the slide) is loose. Can I simply replace a pin or two or do I have to replace the entire ejector? Either way, how do I do it? I am slightly below average when it comes to mechanical inclination. I've never taken my guns down beyond field stripping them for cleaning or taking apart the mag to clean the innards. Is replacing this part or some pins a difficult job for a novice or should I just pay someone to do it?

Any other parts I should replace during this "tune up"? I'm thinking about the bushing and the plug for the recoil spring and guide rod. Nothing wrong with them, they just seem like parts that probably would get a lot of wear and tear and that it probably is smart to replace them when replacing springs. Does that sound about right?

While I am replacing things I am thinking about a few non-functional changes as well. I may be in a carry state next year for graduate school (about a 50/50 chance) and I'm thinking about this gun for carry since it is so reliable (that is, when I wouldn't be carrying a revolver). However, I don't like the large extended pieces if I'm going to carry it. I might replace the slide stop with a more standard one and I may go w/ a regular right handed safety or maybe one with a smaller purchase if ambi. I'd also like a different grip safety that is less likely to not be engaged if I don't get a good grip on the gun. The slide stop is a "no brainer" but how do you replace the safeties. I'm also probably going to go with some slimline type grips to make it even more discrete for carry.

Anyway, I'll go now so I can get some answers from the gallery.

 

[1911Tuner]

Spring Schedule

Howdy chaim. A good rule-of-thumb is:

The recoil spring...every 2500 rounds.
Firing pin spring...every 5,000
Sear spring...every 10,000
Mainspring/plunger spring and pins...every 20,000

Additionally, the pistol should be detail stripped at
every recoil spring change, ( more often if you shoot
dirty ammo...such as reloads with cast lead bullets)
thoroughly cleaned and small parts inspected under a
strong light for any signs of impending failure. I suggest
a magnifying glass to look at the hammer hooks and
sear engagement angle.

My favorite cleaning agent for the nooks and crannies is
Advance Auto's aerosol Next Generation carburetor cleaner.
Allow it to completely dry before oiling and reassembly.

If you have a 5-inch gun...Government Model class..a 16-pound
Wolff recoil spring will work fine in 90% of the guns you try it
in. Others may require clipping a half-coil or so for best function...
and still others will require a 14-pound spring. Most Commanders
that I've encountered do their best with the same 16-pound spring cut down to somewhere between 24 and 25 coils. be
sure to check for coil binding whenever a recoil spring is changed.
If the spring goes solid too early as the slide recoils, the
results can be expensive to repair. This doesn't happen often,
but often enough to make sure. If you don't know how to check
for this, reply and I'll provide instructions.

Happy shootin'!

Tuner

 

[45auto]

The only items you may want to replace is the recoil spring and firing pin spring. The other springs should be fine. You might think about replacing them at 25,000+... maybe!

Weight of the spring will depend on what load you shoot. Ball ammo and equivalent- 16lbs is a good weight. It's hard to assume anything, but if that's the original spring that came with the gun, it probably is around that 16lb range.

Ejectors are supposed to be tight. Mine has been a "little" loose for over 10,000 rounds now- no problems. But, I'll let someone more knowledgable than I comment on what do with that.

Sounds like you have a good working 1911.

The only other items I would look at for the tune-up at 6,000 rounds are magazine springs, depending on how many mags you use, and the tension of the extractor. But, if it's working fine I would be hesitant to bend it- just check it to ensure continued reliable extraction.

Wilson has a good book on maintanence of the 1911. It's worth the $10.

Good luck

 

[prezzz]

I'm looking at getting a Daly 1911A1. Your post gives me a lot more confidence in this pistol.

Thanks for sharing your post about the 6k rounds through your pistol.

 

[chaim]

prezzz,

I absolutely love my Charles Daly, so much so that I have been considering a 3" compact version. Just be aware that while many people are like me and have many rounds through theirs and are happy, there are also quite a few internet reports to the contrary. I'd say among actual owners the numbers seem to be about 4 to 1 positive (and many of the negatives are with older guns, they started a quality improvement program around the time mine was made). So it isn't something where I'd say don't get it, but it is something you should keep in mind.

Given the possibility that a CD is more of a crap shoot than others (again, with the improvements these past couple years it may not be) I would recommend them, but only if you are in a situation where you can take that into account. Like any auto, but especially important since the jury is still out on reliablity, I'd strongly suggest that you get several hundred rounds out of it before using it as a defensive gun (if I get the compact I plan to put 500-600 rounds through it over the summer much of it hollowpoints, more if I can afford the ammo). If you want a range gun or if you have other guns and you can afford to relagate this to range gun status if it turns out to be a bad one I will recommend CD wholeheartedly. If it is your first gun and you want a gun that can do self defense duties immediately, get a revolver!

As for shooting characteristics, I am very pleased. Mine is more reliable than my best friend's Kimber Custom Target. It is more accurate as well. Recoil is mild and quite pleasant (well, with the weakened recoil spring it is starting to get a little snappy, but when everything is to spec it is pleasant). It handles in my hand wonderfully.

Mine is one of the earliest improved guns (it is pre-enhanced) so there are machining marks and it is somewhat rough on the outside but I've looked at recent examples in the store and many of them look quite good (not quite Kimber, but very nice).

So again, I can recommend them and I do strongly, with one caveat. The break in suggested with all autos before relying on them for serious duty is especially important here. If you have other guns and you can either relagate this to range duty if a bad one or if you can do what you need to fix it up (with 1911s usually any example can be fixed if needed there is so much in the way of parts availability) or if you need a range gun- sure, go get one. If you want to immediately put it to CCW or home defense use, reconsider (though I'd say that with any auto, it might be even more important with CD). Actually, if you need anything for immediate self defense use, as I said before, the only gun I'd suggest is a revolver.

Oh and one more thing, buy quality mags. The mags from CD were complete crap in my case and many people report similar findings. With McCormick Power Mags it is nearly 100%. Other good mags to consider (nowhere near a complete list) are Wilson, other Chip McCormick models, Macgar (the factory mags are Macgar but I hear good things about the aftermarket replacement mags), Ed Brown, and of course there are many others.

I hope this helps.

 

[prezzz]

chaim,

Thanks tons for the info. That's some good reading there.

This would be used for defense. The 8 shot 870 Police pump, the AR-15 shorty, and my Ruger P90 will fill those roles. This will purely be my entry level learning pistol for the 1911. After going through it carefully and like you said, putting 1000 or more rounds through it, it may take the role of my "truck gun".

Educate me on the "pre-enhanced" Daly's. What is this and when did it take place?

This one is a 1999 model so I would guess it's not the enhanced version?

I'm currently involved in a trade for this one. It looks real nice to me. But, what do I know.

Thanks again.

 

[cratz2]

I've been shooting 1911s for quite a while and one the issue of what weight recoil spring to use, I tend to stick with 16# Wolffs unless it primarily shoots defensive ammo then I go to the 18.5# Wolff. Unless you're shooting reduced loads or are getting consistant stove pipes and you aren't limpwristing, I really can't see cutting coils or using a lighter spring. Agree with the reasoning or not, there are a few reasons to go with a heavier spring and none to go with a lighter spring - again, unless you are experiencing failures or are shooting light loads. For factory new 230 Gr ball ammo, I'd stick with 16# springs.

And the only springs I generally replace are the recoil spring and the firing pin spring. I've never replaced a hammer spring unless getting rid of the ILS lock on the newer Springfields. Also, I've only ever replaced one sear spring on my very well used 1991A1.

 

[1911Tuner]

Springs

Howdy cratz,

Playing with the slide speed and timing by using different
spring rates and clipping a half-coil or so is a big part of the
fine-tuning process.

Nine times out of ten, a 16# spring will drop into a 5-inch
pistol and run fine...Once in a while it won't. About half
the Colts that I've encountered have either had a 16
pound spring with fewer coils than the standard 32.
or they've had a 14# spring. I've never seen a Commander
with an 18# spring as delivered from Colt. Most run in the
15-16 pound range, and some go as low as 14. Coil count
can vary from 22.5 all the way to 25.5...depending on the
spring rate. I take that to mean that somebody is tuning
the springs to the pistols. I know that I do on every one that
I work on or build.

Too much spring can bring on problems, and some aren't
apparent until something breaks. Extractors, for instance
suffer from an oversprung condition. Rideover feeds and
live-round stovepipes occur, along with slide lock failure with
the follower slipped over the stop's lug, and sticking the
magazine in the well. All these are indications of too much
recoil spring for that particular gun, regardless of what the
books say. Each one is a law unto itself.

Not tryin' to start a flame...just a little more information.

Cheers!
Tuner

 

[cratz2]

Oh.. I soak up all the 1911 info I can get so no flame was read. I just haven't had it recommended to me very often to cut coils off of of standard weight springs or go to a lighter spring when shooting 230 Gr ball ammo. Actually, I don't even know for sure that is what chaim shoots.

I have typically used unmodified 16# Wolffs for shooting ball, 18.5# for shooting defensive stuff (230 Gr +P Gold Dots are my preferred load) and 14# springs for 200 Gr LSWCs. This has always worked for me in a variety of pistols shooting a variety of ammo. My experience is limited compared to many though so I'm more of a 'small slice of th pie' as opposed to a large cross-section from which to sample.

And I admit I've never counted coils or considered clipping and coils off for tweaking. More of a not fixin' something that ain't broken. If the rounds all feed and eject, hopefully within a 15 yard pile, I'm pretty happy. I also always use a buffer during practice... for whatever that's worth.

 

[mainmech48]

Ditto the 16 lb. Wolff's. It's the "standard" rate for a GM, and works great with most full-power loads.

I use George Nonte's old rule-of-thumb to determine when I need to change recoil springs. I always keep a new spare on-hand and check the one in the pistol against it every time I clean the pistol after a range session. When it's 2 1/2-3 coils shorter than the new one, I change it and buy a new replacement.

 

[1911Tuner]

Springs revisited

Howdy again cratz, Thanks for keepin' an open mind. Here's
a little more info to add to your understanding.

If you've got a battery of pistols that seem to be like that
Energizer Rabbit, High Five! I've got a few of those, too.
They eat whatever ammo you feed'em...through any old
trash magazine, and so forth...Love those!

Springs...like any other mass-produced item, are subject to
tolerances...Test examples from a lot fall within accepted
limits of variation. A 16-pound spring may test at 16..or 15.5...
or 16.5, even from the same lot. Kimber seems to have caught
on to this a little late in the game, as many of their earlier
guns were oversprung. Colt has been tuning springs for
years, as has Springfield. Most 5-inch pistols will do well
within that tolerance, but occasionally you run into one that
doesn't. These are the ones that get sold at a loss or traded
because the owner throws up his hands in disgust over its
"jamming". One of my "Energizer rabbits' came from such a source. How's 2500 rounds without a stoppage, and without
cleaning strike you for reliablity?

In nearly 40 years of building, rebuilding, repairing, tuning,
cussin' and praising John Browning's masterpiece, I've seen
these things do everything but stand on their hind legs and
bark. The two things that stand out are that most function
problems come from simple causes, and simple fixes usually
set things right.

Magazines, magazine followers, and spring
fatigue are the first suspects in any feeding problem. Extractor
tension or lack thereof falls next, along with the condition of
the hook covers feeding and ejection problems. The recoil
spring's rate is the third leg of the stool. These three things
work as a system, and if you keep that in mind as you approach
a problem, you can solve it pretty quickly. Throating and polishing
are extra insurance in a reliability tune-up unless something is
obviously wrong, such as the throat overhanging the ramp,
or not being set forward far enough. Another easy fix.

The other thing is that Wolff springs have proven to be the most
consistent of any that I have used....from spring to spring and lot to lot...year after year. ISMI springs outlast Wolff by a good
margin, but they often vary as much as 10% off their stated rating...and ISMI comes overlength for the purpose of tuning.

The last thing to bear in mind is that the rule of thumb to use
the heaviest spring that will allow the gun to lock the slide
on the last round is sheep dip. Many will do that trick even when
way oversprung. That is a starting point. The spring works in
both directions, and using a heavy spring will slow the slide in
one direction, but speed it up in the other. If it goes too fast
after it hits the impact surface during ejection, the magazine
may not be able to keep up, because while the slide speed
before it gets to the magazine is constant, the magazine
spring rate and tension varies every time it loses a round.

Hope this clears up a few things. SHoot straight!

Tuner

 

[sm]

1911Tuner:

Some good advice your sharing, thanks.
I wish you had a pic of an extractor you do...I think I know the "cuts" my gunsmith does this too. Be great for others to see.

I agree with the springs suggestion.
I do run some with Wolff 18.5...that a load thing though.

I do know some whom use a CP shock buff, they read the buff , aids in determining spring replacement.
( I think this idea is from Layne Simpson)

 

[1911Tuner]

re: advice

Howdy re'73...You're mighty welcome.

Your smith has evidently studied the issue of non-spring
extractors, and figured out the cure. Tell him an old
Marine said: Kudos! (No such thing as an ex-Marine, ya know...)

Cheers!
T

 

[sm]

1911Tuner

re: Thanks

actually Sir, the Thanks is to you and others whom have and continue to serve. [insert salute smilie here]

 

[1911Tuner]

Servin'

Sir??? Lordy...The only people who call me "sir" are cops and
used car salesmen

Serving my country wasn't something that I had a choice in...It
was hard-wired into my DNA. Thank YOU for your rememberance
of all who did.

Semper Fi!
Tuner

 

[sm]

re: Sir

I'm not a cop....and I don't even own a loud plain used car salesman jacket ...you can ask my brother...

Didn't JMB have criteria on the 'cuts'... I know he specified the bar stock and all...

Next you can share the "mag tuning" tricks, with the "mag tuning tool" ( read: needle nose pliers).

 

[1911Tuner]

Cuts

re-Howdy...

JMB specified spring steel rather than bar stock. No cuts as per
the prints, but adjustment on the front pad to set the hook
closer to the breechface centerline was allowable on commercial
models. Military issuance demanded that the pistol be serviceable
in the field with in-spec parts.

The magazine tune is done on the spring only...not the feed lips.
Good mag tubes can be had from metalform for a song if 10
or more are ordered...and you can get a good price break on
complete magazines the same way. The other part of the
magazine tweak is done on the follower...assuming that you
have a flat, sheet metal follower. I'll provide instructions
directly. Tip: No matter what Ken Hallock's little book says,
don NOT file the dimple off the follower....
Ask me how I know.:banghead: :banghead:
...But I was young then...and foolish.

Stay tuned,(pun intended)
T

 

[gharsh]

chaim, if you think you'd like to do the work go ahead. A gunsmith will most likely take your money if you bring a box of parts to the shop.

I had a Springfield Ultra Compact mil-spec once and had to replace the extractor. Springfield was great, sent it right out and took only a couple of days. However, I did the replacment myself and tuned the piece per instructions and always had a problem with the last round out of the magazine. The problem may have not been related, but I did not have this problem before the new extractor. It would stand staight up with out feeding into the chamber.

I traded it for a full size Springfield Loaded and haven't looked back. I shoot it much better than the small one and therefore enjoy it much more.

I looked into having some work done on the Ultra and decided that it was cheaper to trade it for something I really wanted instead of dealing with something I only half liked.

 

[1911Tuner]

Last round burp

The last round failure was likely related to the magazine spring,
the recoil spring rate, or the magazine follower design. That
it began with the extractor change was probably coincidental.
An extractor-related feeding problem generally shows up on
the top round, when the drag on the slide is high.

Just FYI for the next time...

Cheers!
Tuner

 

[Mute]

Listen to 1911Tuner. I don't say this very often of anyone, particularly on the internet, but, HE KNOWS THAT ABOUT WHICH HE SPEAKS. Disregard his advice to your own dismay.

 

[1911Tuner]

WOW!

Thanks Mute! I reckon you stay quiet til you've got somethin'
to say.

Cheers to ya, mah fren...
T