"Well tell 'em you have a knife *sigh* finally!!"

[JohnKSa]

Car wash, and lady upset about a scratch on her car. Discussion taking place, with a Car wash mgr. Scratch is same height as the pocket clipped knife the car wash attendant is wearing as he was drying off that side of vehicle.

That is definitely an issue with pocket clips. I had to switch to carrying only in the front pocket and at the front point of the pocket.

Your point about concealing your knife (rather than leaving a pocket clip exposed) is also a good one. Read this to see why...

http://www.therallypoint.org/forum/index.php?topic=930.0

The link in the first post of that thread won't work, continue to the second post, the text from the link is in it.

 

[JTW Jr.]

concealing your knife is fine IF it is legal to do so , it many states/counties it may not be. Read some of the other posts there as well. They hit it on the head " Be aware of your surroundings" , which is sounds as though none were doing.

I love to study people , next time you go to the mall , grocery store or wherever , look at how many people are walking around totally oblivious to the world around them , talking on cell phones , checking their blackberry for email , etc. Easy targets for the thugs.

I have been carrying at least one folder clipped in a pocket for over 20 years , never snagged it on anything , never had anyone outside of my knife collecting friend ever mention it to me or ask why I have it.

 

[Kingcreek]

As a small child, I remember sitting on my grandpa's lap in his workshop as he taught me to sharpen chisels and planer blades with a stone. He guided my hands as I learned the proper technique. Later he let me sharpen knives and one day, when he decided I was ready, he gave me a small bone-handled stockman of my own. He gave me a small stone with it. I carried it everyday and everywhere, even to school. I kept it sharp, clean, and lightly oiled.
He died when I was 10 years old and one day I lost that knife thru a new hole in the bottom of a jeans pocket. You can bet I'd pay anything for the return of that little knife today- some 40 years later. I still have the small arkansas stone.
There is an abundance of knives around here, full spectrum, from $7 moras to several customs costing more than I want to admit. You won't find a dull one. My favorites are a 100 year old stag-handled Marble's Ideal (belonged to the other grandpa) and a small fixed blade Rosselli puuko. Many days I carry a folding hunter by Bob Dozier (no pocket clip and D2 steel of course).
Traditional is OK but there are some damn good modern knives out there. Fortunately, we don't have to limit ourselves to just one or the other.
I've even got one of those vintage sharpfingers around here somewhere.

 

[sm]

JohnKSa,

Thank you!
That link shares what my Mentors & Elders shared with me as little kid.
I was born in 1955! I recall even back then M&E's including my maternal grandma, passing forward such lessons on "how do you want to be perceived?"

Grandma, looked like a "grandma". Apron, those "old lady shoes" and all around the house. Hat when dolled up...but she kept herself armed. Nobody really "saw" anything but a grandma. She did not "pull out" her money. At a store and strangers around "put it on the ledger, I'll square up later". She did not want folks seeing what she had, and where kept.

Folks advertise w-a-y too much! Folks had cars busted into and hotel rooms too attending shooting matches. Out of town plates and it does not take much to tell whom is in town for the shooting match - or golf game for a Corp meeting.

I would show up - out of town, leave my vehicle with trusted friends and use another local vehicle with that state's tags. My guns? Looked like anything but guns. Two cars were "hit" at a restaurant one night on either side of the one I was driving.
Mine had a baby bottle and teething ring on the back seat.
The two either side had NRA stickers, "if it flies it dies" , and basically screamed guns.

Buck 110s. Never cared for these, personally the Case fit my hands better. Still folks "read" Buck 110s. Now this is back when gun racks and guns were in the racks.
We really did not have a problem - still problems happened. See a fellow in this new-fangled camo , folks watching, see the Buck 110, see the stickers on the newfangled hunting truck/ SUV.
Few folks got in some problems being followed out to the woods. One reason I CCW while hunting - gotta get to and fro.
Some fellas get the drop on you /yours and all you have are long guns - whatcha gonna do?

Concealed means concealed. Always has, always will to me.

I got a $2 carton cutter to open boxes with, easy to use one-handed, and it does work real well for defensive purposes.
Got a inexpensive screwdriver, reversible, like folks use for working on PCs, office equipment.
Opens boxes, and again, works fine for defensive purposes.

Do I have a knife? Depends. Often times "need to get a knife I guess", or "May I borrow your knife?" or "Guns? Guns are bad, why on earth do folks need guns with cell phones and 911?.

Oh yeah, been invited to learn how to shoot, given literature about handgun laws in state and all sorts of stuff, including going hunting.

--
--

Yes I asked for assistance on "what knife for me" her on THR a few years ago I chose two, this was a social experiment. Also I was testing the knives, these did not hold up. My Case slip-joint / pocketknife did - then I lost that one (dumb mistake on my part losing a Trapper Jr, with CV blades)

Not having a knife, and folks noticing - I was offered a Sebenza, tested a Benchmade and other things...
Did not accept, or given back after some more social experimenting and testing and evaluations.

--

I got the right to be wrong. Part of my "wrong" is - I used to use my hands and use hand tools.
I apprenticed for this. Dremels were not even around then. Foredom Flex shafts were...I was NOT allowed to use powered tools. I started apprenticeship , sweeping floors and taking out the trash.

Handmade stuff, not stampings. Quality not Quantity. One of a kind - not mass produced.

Over the years all I grew up has 'changed'. I understand the mix of new technologies, how Chrysler had 3 times the square footage of Honda. How the Chrysler plant had to physically drag the chassis many times for various steps,and it took 7 folks to weld.
Honda, robotic. One on the track, did not have to "drug around". Robot did precise welding, and Honda produced a better car, with half the employees and 1/3 the square footage.
Honda USA made a better car, and way fewer problems than Chrysler.
I did the research too many years ago.

--

Full retail at a Feed Store and the Barhead Trapper trapper was about $ 31 with tax included. Fit and finish is superb, walk and talk , sharp as a razor out of the box, and has kept its edge.

Why does a $$$ knife cost $$$ when the previous morning the "idea" was born and the Computer fired up? They call these "custom knives" sometimes too...
Prototype messed with , virtual model designed. Send this downstairs to the machine that makes one out of the best priced metal bought on the market, and one "manufactured".

Tweak a few things, feed the metal bought on the market at the best price for that "lot" and give it a "name" so that metal, same as others are using - is "better."
Marketing folks gotta eat too...

Now umpteen of these are manufactured at blinding speeds, no character, no soul, no "feeling".

Price is based on marketing, overhead, advertising, taxes , insurance, legal...
and the oldest "bidness" thinking ever.

"A person feels a nickel pencil writes better than one that only costs them two pennies".
Psychological, self esteem, mob mentality, all sort of "things" come into play.

Those "limited" knives of 100 - 2000 are sold. Now repeat the process, do some razzle-dazzle on blade shape, finish, new word the buying folks are in need of, need a "new and improved knife" and market that puppy.

Seen it over the years, been right there when it was going on. Not my way, made me a bit sad, angry and upset.
Then again "bidness is bidness" and folks will always want a sense of belonging, acceptance, and will spend monies for these feelings.

--

Customer of mine in the clothing business. One of his lines were men's oxford shirts. Buyers from Dept Stores bought that shirt. Same exact shirt - except the label and the price tag.
Folks would see me wearing my usual oxford shirt, long sleeve, button down collar, mention - Dillards, MMCohn, Lord & Taylors, Kohls and whomever these nice stores in various towns.
At the time retail at a small store, family chain this shirt was - $10.99 retail. Lord & Taylors in Dallas got $22.99 for it. In PA one store got $32.99 for it.

Buddy of mine gave me labels as joke - "you can have as expensive a shirt you want after you pay the $10.99 retail you been paying".
NY store got $39.50 for "my shirt".

Just like some of new plastic money folks buy one bottle of good spirits. They refill it with "bar" scotch, whiskey, rye, - whatever.

Bottom line - in my day anyway, "What are you getting for monies spent?"

Old boss said " folks will buy a cow chip if on sale, marked down , on reduction or touted loud enough".
Another boss said " Three factors determine the price of all goods and services- Greed, Greed and Greed.

--

Canister oil filters back in the day. Same filter for a Chevy or Ford. Ask for a Lincoln or Caddy filter - and you paid more for it.
Sales reps always asked for the Chevy or Ford one and used the money saved for something else.
Gates radiator hose another example.

--

Call me "wrong" call me a relic, call me old fashioned.
Just watch a fellow make a pocketknife , temper the back- springs, fit the pivot holes, and all the steps to make a quality slip joint/ pocketknife, that sells for $40 retail.
Look at the old cigar box grandparents left folks with old pocket knives, made this way that were used so much. Pick one up and feel the character , soul, and the feeling that went into making it.

 

[Adam Selene]

I do not like stuff hanging off or out of my pockets either. I would rather leave it at home than have to drag it on a clip.

 

[TrapperReady]

Steve - About two or three days before you posted this thread, I received an A.G. Russell catalog. Standing in the kitchen, leafing through the pages I stopped cold at page #13, which has the Boker Cinch Trapper and Rancher.

I kid you not... my first thought was "I bet Steve would like these knives."

Of course, my second thought was "Steve would probably remember when somthing like this cost a nickel and came out of the case next to the pickel barrel."

 

[Axman]

Interesting discussion. As a proffessional cook, I appreciate a good knife. I have a preference for certain designs on pocket and hunting knives as well as my kitchen cutlery. I like the bone handles for durability but also have a thing for the old hunters with the laminated leather handles. Wood handles are nice but the wood has to be something durable. I don't consider price a major factor in purchasing a knife either. I have seen overpriced knifes that are worthless as well as inexpensive knives that last forever. For my prfessional cutlery, I chose a set of Farberware knives. I've had these knives for over 15 years and only sharpen them once every week. The entire set (7 knives) only set me back just over $100. They are made in Japan but are well made and are strong sturdy blades. I always look for 2 features in kitchen cutlery. The knife blade must be one piece with the metal center of the handle and must be consistant with the entire handle. It doen't matter much to me whether the handle grips are polymer or wood or whatever. Too many times I have seen a chef's knife where the blade metal stops halfway down the handle.

Hunters and folders are something I prefer in a traditional design. No fancy thumblugs or tacticool handles. Just a nice pickbone, stag, wood or leather handle. Locking folders are okay just so long as they are simple designs and don't require some secret button to release it.

 

[FourTeeFive]

Clips on knives - regional?

There is a bit of a regional factor to consider too. Here in the Pacific Northwest, land of the casual outdoor look and lattes, it seems every outdoorsey guy has a clip on tactical knife. You see them everywhere, on musicians, artists, craftsmen, etc. Certainly see it more here than many parts of the country. However, I know a lot of guys that carry these and they definitely don't carry a gun.

Personally, I keep my carry knife very low-profile. I also tend to wear black jeans or slacks and always have black knives with black clips. So yes, I'm conscious about not saying "hey, I got a knife" but if someone noticed mine it would look like so many other people around here.

 

[sm]

TrapperReady,
Yes I want that Cinch knife! Carbon steel and word is , it is heat treated proper.

http://www.agrussell.com/knives/by_type/folding/slipjoint/bker_cinch_trapper.html

Böker® Cinch® Rancher

The Rancher is a sturdy 3-3/8" Cattleman's Knife. Serpentine handle with carbon steel blades; a 2-1/2" clip, 1-3/4" spey and 1-3/4" leather punch all at 57-59 Rc. Nickel silver bolsters and inlay with brass liners make this very much your granddad's knife. Weighs 2.1 oz. Suggested retail is $59.95.
(B) BO-CI7388Y: $44.95

Trapper, I ain't that old. My first knife was a bone Case Peanut, maternal grandma made it very special - this boy getting his first knife. I was about 3 years old. It was special, and used around and with grandma's watchful eye.

My next knife from a Mentor, Shrade-Walden, again a peanut. Again a special knife.
Happy day was the $1 Barlow I could throw in the dirt and learn mumbly-peg.
I had my special knives, I knew these were special and I never ever abused them.

Grandma was really good at mumbley-peg. We had matching Barlows and we did all sorts of stuff with them.
Why were we out in the rain playing mumbley peg? Because knives stick in mud better and I was also learning the fine art of how step into mud puddles .
Some stuff has to be "learnt right" ya know?

--

Regional: Single blade knives, from Peanut, to, Sodbusters, to Barehead Trappers were seen and used most often.
Multi blades were more rare or "special reason". Ladies and Gents knives had a pen blade and scissors for instance.
Down on where horses and cattle were, these same knives were used, single blade. One used a knife. Same knife used for whittling, kitchen duty, camping, cleaning game - you name it.
One did not have a drawer full of knives to choose from, same single bladed knife for everything.

I tripped out seeing a two bladed Trapper, then the Trapper Jr the first time.
I was maybe in first grade when I saw these, then I saw Cattleknives, or stockman's.

In 1963 I was in the third grade when JFK was shot in Dallas. In my jeans pocket , at school, I had two knives, one a Barehead Trapper, the other a Peanut.
Peanut for sharpening pencils for math stuff, having to use fountain pens for some stuff [Sheaffer's] and the Scripto ink pens for other stuff.
Whittle at recess if raining, and could not play ball...
Trapper used to cut apples, peaches, pears and other stuff at lunch.

If a teacher asked to see your knife - you had better have one, no matter if boy or girl, and it better be sharp, taken care of and all.

Singer Sewing Machine oil, Norton India stone up near the teachers desk - and okay to have a little assistance - after all - we were in school and teachers taught stuff that was not always in a textbook.

"Okay class, everyone has a knife correct? Line up and we are going to the cafeteria, and we are going to help the kitchen this morning getting food prepared..."

"Whew! Teacher is not going to give that test on math this Friday morning"
"Yeah that means we are going to have it Monday instead..."

 

[sm]

Defense

I get bigger and had started apprenticing. Just how things were done, what raised in / around and all.
There were serious concerns about me being a kid and security. These lessons started very very young.
If bad people got me, they could use me to get others to open a business and get stuff, get them to open a safe...

Times were different, I always carried at least one knife, and one I carried a lot was a Barehead Single Blade Trapper. My good knife.
Sometimes a kid needs to carry a Barlow , but I had outgrown them, instead had some other single blade knife, not very good, used for mumbley peg. We kids knew we might toss knives in dirt , try to get one to stick in tree, or something...we knew the difference.

To save some money I walked a lot, hitch-hiked, to save the bus fare. I knew folks and often times folks would see me and give me a ride.

I messed up. I messed up really bad.
I was running errands doing this apprenticeship stuff. I did the errand part fine. It was on the way back I messed up big time. I was about 11, and went to see some dogs a few blocks off the path, it was okay, I was told to take my time and enjoy the nice day, I had been really working hard.

I let my mindset go, forget some stuff messing the dogs, and the folks that owned them.
My mind was on the dogs and this vehicle with out of state plates offered me a ride back to "town".
I never saw the out of state plates. My mind was somewhere else. I only saw one person driving and " yeah sure, thanks..."

There was a second person in the back , I had messed up really bad again - I had not looked back there before getting in...

My Barehead Trapper in back jeans pocket, set up for "in case you get into trouble" had two matchsticks done in a way , the point was out a bit. Also this one had been carefully filed , where one did not have to use the nail nick - just grab the blade. Just a nice, very well blended job of removing some of the handle and liner...all this flowed with the lines of the knife, no compromise to handle strength or look...unless you knew this knife, and then sometimes compared it to one not done up like mine ( and Mentors) side by side.

I was not seated for a split second before the one in back reached over and grabbed me...driver took off , opposite of town.
Driver hit the brakes in a remote area - I was kicking, had feet going every which a way ...pushing against dash, hitting the steering wheel...
I had whipped out my Barehead Trapper one handed, snagged it open on my jeans, and cut that arm around my neck - he let go - screaming...blood going everywhere...
Driver had a small gun, and he turned more toward me - and I Sliced the gun hand,
while using my smaller base of other hand to hit his Adams Apple.

"Fight, cheat, do not stop. You might get hurt, you might get maimed, you might get dead
but dammit, do not quit, don't you ever , all this stuff happens - it had better happen under your terms - not because you quit and it happened under bad people's terms"- Mentors

I had my weak hand down onto gun pressing hard into seat, I sliced into his midsection , through his shirt and ...his eyes got real big, his hand went to his midsection, he screamed !
He was literally holding his guts in.
Back person, was cut bad too...blood spurting...

I took off for help!

After it all was said and done, My Mentors - handled me just right. Odd thing was, everything was in slow motion, I was able to do all I had to do, then it hit me like a ton of bricks.
When the time was right, I could tell how upset my Mentors were. It was hard for them to say anything, I was hoping they would say something- the silence was deafening!

"I messed up really really bad, and I messed up a lot of ways..." I said finally
"Yeah you did, now tell how you screwed up, what you were taught to do, what not to do and ....

Then we had a chat, serious, direct, calm to my level.

My knife - "See why you keep one taken care of and sharp?"
It was cleaned up for me, sharpened up and given back. I just sat there, then moved down to the floor to sit, holding it and then I got to shaking again.
Mentors , one being a lady sat down on the floor and I lost it again, angry, mad and had to get past this some more.

Then I got real hungry and " boy got an appetite, he is gonna be all right"
Next day I was given another exact copy of my Barehead, some special people, and the Mentors presented it to me.

"Time to get on to some more stuff you need to know in this life..."

Knife did not close on me, I did not get cut from the knife. My "injuries" were not serious. Just I was too busy moving,fighting and all- and cars had more metal inside back then and I learned all sorts of things scratch, cut, bruise, and all...

Mom to this day does know about this, just like other things in my life mom and sibs do not know.
Mom had enough to worry about, I was just the eldest, assisting being the eldest male of the household and was known to be active.
Limping, band-aids, bruises and all - "just a active boy growing up is all..."

It took about 3 days for the copper taste in my mouth to leave...blood does that...

This for those that asked about defensive use via PM and email.
Hope it answers and hope it helps.
May you never have to find out on your own...

S

 

[HiWayMan]

Holy Snikies Steve!!!!!!
......................my respect for you has now increased another 5 fold.