Wet Tumbling Primers in - Don't do THIS.

[OilyPablo]

I've been tumbling .45ACP and 10mm. Batches?! -we got batches! My tumbler can handle 5 #'s of brass easy. With excellent results. Thousands of pieces of brass, gleaming and perfect. Bagged and tagged.

I do it per the book in a Rebel 17. 4-5# brass. 5#'s steel pin media. 1/4 tsp Lemishine. 4 TBSP of earth friendly liquid dish detergent. 3 hrs. Rinse really well, separate, rinse, ring dry in a towel, dry in a food dehydrator.

I finally today ran out of deprimed brass. I had been depriming for a good while before I started tumbling. The only part I hated was how dirty the process is. SO......I thought........hmmm.... ok, tumble with the primers in......it works with the formula above, but the primers stay wet, so I deprimed right away, and yes the pockets were still dirty. When wet the primer pockets clean with a tool, once hardened it's more of a pain........it's a pain either way. So back in the tumbler....smooth and pockets clean in under an hour. Again using the same formula as above.

I repeat the "primer in" cleaning sequence a couple times.....

Still with me?

Well I get the brilliant idea of not using Lemishine for the first wet clean.....and think that some other degreaser cleaner would work better...hmm...Simple Green?, Amazing Roll Off? Zep Orange Cleaner? All sitting on the shelf.

For no particular reason I grabbed the Zep.

http://www.zep.com/ZepSearch/singleproduct.aspx?search=0415&nu..

Poured about a 1/2 cup in top with cold water and set the tumbler in motion. 1 hour later open up. First thing I notice is the top seal is STUCK. Like glue. I get it peeled off, no harm....but everything is coated with black gooze. The brass, the pins, the inside of the tumbler liner. YUCK. Rinse everything as best I could to assess the situation. First thing, this scunge will wipe off with elbow grease....it's tough but removable. And better, the rubber liner isn't damaged. First I clean the rubber liner with Simple Green, the Roll Off. Nice and clean. The pins are a complete mess, so soak in Simple Green rinse with very hot water, repeat. Then tumble alone and every thing is finally clean. What a waste of time!

Now to that batch of brass..........it's coated with this gooey junk and I need to deprime it. So I clean it a couple times, and it is cleaner, but still messy to deprime. Ugg. I will finish depriming it tomorrow and do the regular clean in the AM.

So what happened?

1) My pins and tumbler had built up a lot of junk.
2) The Orange cleaner made a strange emulsion with the built up stuff and all the new dirt. Maybe emulsion is not a good word because the stuff was not water soluble.

Lesson learned. Keep pins clean and stick with known chemistry.

 

[lauderdale]

Thanks for passing on the info!

 

[FROGO207]

You dissolved the outermost layer of your tumbler liner with that product. I do not use petroleum based cleaner/solvent with neoprene (what your liner is probably made of) because it will dissolve it. Stick with a soap type cleaner and some type of mild citric acid. FWIW the drink Tang will clean the brass----used to dump a can of this into a dishwasher to clean the surface grime/buildup off when servicing them. but the sugar makes them harder to rinse. The only thing I have found is that if you use less water, only fill up to cover the brass you can add more brass to each batch to make up the difference. The mechanical action of the pins cleans the brass but the pockets need to be open (no primer inserted)so they can do their job if you want them to be absolutely clean. FWIW for years I never cleaned/tumbled the brass let alone the primer pockets and my ammo was GTG but was not trying for match accuracy at the time.

 

[OilyPablo]

You dissolved the outermost layer of your tumbler liner with that product. I do not use petroleum based cleaner/solvent with neoprene (what your liner is probably made of) because it will dissolve it.

No. That was my worry, but it didn't harm the liner in the least.

No. The orange cleaner:

"An excellent organic, non-petroleum, cleaner/degreaser...."

 

[RussellC]

My Franfford arsenal tumbler had a warning about certain solvents and cleaners, now I see why. Thanks for the heads up.

Russellc

 

[FROGO207]

Maybe so. However the orange based cleaner I have is designed to dissolve and remove grease, oil, paint, and many other types of grime from my hands. Try putting a small bit of the cleaner on the inside center of your clean dry cover and rub it around with your finger for a couple minutes. If it gets black and gunky when it was not before then it is not residue from the brass you are removing. I generally use carb cleaner to clean my Thumlers liner and it WILL take a layer of the black liner off and soften it noticeably if left on for a short while. YMMV

 

[OilyPablo]

Maybe tomorrow I'll give that shot. I've had enough brass cleaning for a goodly while. Around 12,000 pieces in just over a week. I think I went nuts somewhere along the way...the brass is awesomely pretty. But, yeah.

Now to bolting my press down.

 

[Crashbox]

I do hope all is well with you and you get this resolved and not dissolved, OilyPablo.

FWIW, I just bought a 3.25-gallon ultrasonic cleaner because my half-gallon one is now MUCH too small for large quantities of brass

Such an addicting hobby...

 

[ArchAngelCD]

All of that to avoid depriming before you tumble? Depriming isn't all that dirty a process if you use a Universal Depriming Die. That die really doesn't touch the cases.

 

[OilyPablo]

Crashbox - all is well. I miss you man. I miss Lynden. Can you believe - 10 years ago! 3.5 gallon? Woot. How many pounds of brass can you handle? How clean are the cases? Chemistry? I consider a 5 pound batch about enough

All of that to avoid depriming before you tumble? Depriming isn't all that dirty a process if you use a Universal Depriming Die. That die really doesn't touch the cases.

THAT is exactly the conclusion I reached. Just put some nitrile gloves on and knock the primers out and clean once. Done.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

You dissolved the outermost layer of your tumbler liner with that product. I do not use petroleum based cleaner/solvent with neoprene (what your liner is probably made of) because it will dissolve it. Stick with a soap type cleaner and some type of mild citric acid. FWIW the drink Tang will clean the brass----used to dump a can of this into a dishwasher to clean the surface grime/buildup off when servicing them.

Neoprene is degraded by many acids, including acetic, uric, nitric, hydrochloric, boric and resin acid. The problem here is the resin acid, derived from the pine tree. Resin acid is also labeled as tall oil, one of the ingredients in Zep Citrus Cleaner. You also should avoid chlorine chemicals.

 

[Crashbox]

OilyPablo- glad to hear you're doing OK! Has it been TEN years??? Shoot, I thought it was like five or seven- I miss you as well, you can't buy good neighbors (although I do have good one here).

Yes, in spite of the fact that Lynden is a very closed community, it does have some good qualities about it- nice to be able to go for a walk any time of day or night and not have to worry about anything (then again, Lynden DOES seem very well-armed and I'm sure a lot of folks carry).

I have yet to run my first batch of brass through the big one, but it will probably do at least 500 of the .40 S&W cases at once if not more, IIRC that's around five pounds or so. As for chemistry, in the smaller one I used two teaspoons of citric acid and two eye-droppersful of straight surfactant per gallon such as Tergitol NP-9 (or Triton X-100 which I have in stock but not yet used). I'll probably scale the formula up and maybe tinker with it slightly.

They do get REALLY clean- especially the primer pockets. Tumbling would probably produce a better shine but the ultrasonic can be used for much more than cleaning brass.

 

[orionengnr]

I generally use carb cleaner to clean my Thumlers liner and it WILL take a layer of the black liner off and soften it noticeably

Carb cleaner is well known to be an aggressive solvent, and to attack plastic.

JUST SAY NO to carb cleaner, unless you are cleaning carbs....
And wear gloves and appropriate PPE.

 

[choppinlow]

Quote: Now to bolting my press down

Cleaning cases is so unimportant. Your press is a much higher priority. It used to be that we just wiped excess dirt and soot off and they were loaded up for another accurate round. I clean and polish too but can't imagine wasting time on that and not already being setup to load.

And as they said, the primers were not your problem. It was the chemicals you experimented with. Good lesson and good to pass on to others.

 

[OilyPablo]

You are correct - well everything is important when reloading -it's just perfect shiny brass is not quite as important as perfect brass - size, cracks, etc - and other key things.

I'm in no real rush. The press arrived on Thursday. Plus it's quite nice to have plenty of perfectly clean brass, to work with and other than recleaning still it wasn't a true waste of time.

I still need to order some shell holders for my RCBS priming tool (not sure I think my Lee shell holders will work) and will order a universal decapping die at the same time.