What’s with the 300 blackout stigma?

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beeenbag

beeenbag

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I would find it safe to say that no one questions the usefulness of the 7.62x39 round. Many find it as a very capable round for both medium game hunting (deer) and personal defense.

My question is, how come there are so many quick to dismiss the 300 blackout, when in the 125g flavor, it rivals the Russian round very closely? Add to favor on the side off the 300, the ability to be suppressed easily, and the pistol powders used making it much more effective (read retaining velocity) in shorter barrels.

I would agree that between 150g and up to subsonic heavy pills, there is very little use as far as from a practical standpoint, other than say target shooting close range or general plinking. But the more common .308 bullets used also allow for versatility regarding components you may already have.

This is by no means a, “300 blackout is superior”, type post. I simply wonder if there is something I am not seeing in regards to performance from this round in comparison to rounds similar.
 
1. Some loads "can" be chambered in a 5.56/.223 chamber with bad results
2. Cost more for ammo for those that don't reload
3. Already invested in 7.62x39 and somewhat resentful of a new round that essentially does the same thing and getting the "spotlight".
4. Haters got to hate, for some reason there's always a vocal group that comes out against any new cartridge, gun, optic, coffee pot, etc.

I've just started playing with it in an AR pistol PDW build and so far I like the round for this purpose. The fact that it's a simple barrel swap to convert back and forth is a major selling point to me. IF I don't like it, I'm out a $165 barrel. Reloading it is simple and relatively inexpensive, formed brass availability is excellent and again pretty cheap.
 
I think it's less a "stigma" issue, and just some people responding to the massive marketing (and perhaps consumer) push to 300 blackout. Many people don't see enough benefit/point for this creature to have gotten the level of attention from manufacturers and media that it has gotten. But I think the bandwidth of both is pretty good these days. Availability of 300 blackout stuff hasn't come at the expense of, say, 6.5 grendel, which sort of reflects opposite priorities (i.e., getting an AR-15-sized round to be as effective at long ranges as possible), nor of .204 Ruger, which sort of reflects opposite ballistics (lightest and fastest versus fattest and slowest).
 
Same grain weight x39 will always have the advantage in performance, one cannot get around case capacity, the SAAMI pressure helps the 300 BLK. Also, many hamstring the x39 by only using .310-.312 bullets when many have had great results using .308 bullets with accurate results.

7.62x39 = 35.6 gr H2O (45,000 psi)
300 BLK = 25.2 gr H2O (55,000 psi)

With the x39 one can push a 125 gr out of a 16” barrel to 2,5xx FPS with CFE BLK whereas a 300 BLK 125 gr out of a 16” is about 2,3xx FPS.

Now that’s not to say the 300 BLK doesn’t have merits as it is exceptional in subsonic loadings and rarely can be matched for sound. One can achieve really good suppression with the .45 ACP but it lacks the supersonic attributes the 300 BLK has in the other end. The 300 BLK also does really well from short barrels. I know you probably know all of this about the 300 BLK.

Caliber wars will always be, so it’s best to just dance with the girl that got you there.

I had a 300 BLK and had it for a couple of years maybe, but couldn’t get excited about the supersonic velocities our of a 8.2” barrel and didn’t really care to load for subsonic. I could have rebarreled it to 16” but after looking at the velocities between the two the 7.62x39 does have a distinct and not trivial velocity benefit over the 300 BLK, and despite what a lot of people say you can shoot with good results .308 bullets out of a .311 bore; which opens up a lot of options on the bullet front.

If your happy with the 300 BLK performance go for it and don’t let others discourage you from it. There are those out there who don’t understand intermediate cartridges like the 300 BLK, x39, 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 spc, etc and say just use a .308 WIN. And then there are those who say the 308 WIN is barely adequate for big game and one should step up to the magnums.

Same old song and dance, I’ll just dance with the girl that brought me there.
 
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Personally I really like 300 BO. For me the reasons I like it are: It requires only a unique barrel everything else is 5.56 compatible and I like the AR-15 platform. With a pistol length gas system you can have a gun that runs super and sub-sonic with or without a suppressor and have it operate reliably in all four configuration without need for an adjustable gas block or a regulator. Brass is easily available or made. Bullets are common especially for plinking loads and 300 BO specific bullet selection is growing for both supers and sub-sonic.

GDQ0aS9.jpg

My 300 BO carbine I built from parts. I have nearly all the parts collected to build a 300 BO pistol.

Maybe if I was already invested in 7.62x39 I might think different, but I do not own anything in 7.62x39. When I finally decided I wanted a suppressed rifle and was ready to lay the cash down 300 BO just seemed to make the most sense with the greatest flexibility for what I was going to use it for.
 
The versatility, flexibility and cheapness of parts and components is a definite plus for the 300 BLK. If that is what one wants than it is the right choice between the two.
 
It has been pretty hard to pick up a general-gun-interest publication in the last 36 months and not get a story on something 300 BO-related. At least that's how it seems to me. Maybe since I am puzzled by this being of interest to more than a tiny, tiny fraction of shooters, I notice it more. It doesn't bother me, but I have noticed it and been puzzled.

I mean, I understand the "use case" for it... I'm just surprised that there are more than 1,000 people in the whole country for whom that "use case" is compelling/interesting.
 
The way I see it the 7.62X39 is a step down compared to the better 223 loads with 70+ gr bullets. The 300 BO shoots the same bullets as 7.62X39 another 200 fps slower. If someone wants to shoot subsonic loads with a suppresor that is the only practical use for the 300 BO that I can think of.


From a terminal performance perspective it may well kill game and stop threats. But it doesn't do it as well as other more common rounds. If someone is looking for better performance in an AR package than the 223 gives one of the options in 6.5 or 6.8mm is where they need to be looking.
 
6.5 grendel. Great, but just build an AR10 instead.

6.8SPC. Tough tactical round, but people acted like it was the second coming of JMB. High quality 5.56 pretty much killed it.

.454, .50, etc,etc, was like shooting a slug down range.

I think people are just burnt out on new ''wonder rounds'' that are expensive, and rarely more useful. That being said, my best HD AR15 is chambered in .300blk. Less noise, less flash, more power.

My hope is that it's less likely to ''ice pick'' at close ranges. Especially when good defense 5.56 can cost as much as decent .300blk.
 
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Nothing against the idea per-se, but @Chuck R. and @Blkhrt13 have identified my objection to this specific execution. Here we have a cartridge that uses the same EVERYTHING (upper, lower, bolt, mags, brass, etc) and will occasionally close the bolt over a .308 projectile in a .224 bore.

The AR platform makes a lousy smokeless-powder-powered-bullet-swager.

And yes, I know you can close the bolt over a .308 cartridge in a .270Win chamber. . . show me a picture of a splintered .270Win, and I'll raise you 50 of splintered .224-bore ARs.
 
No stigma, but perhaps a negative reaction to over-hype. It really only does one thing uniquely well: suppressed sub-sonic 308 bullets. In that niche, it reigns.

Since, as you note, it's supersonic performance is only close to that of an intermediate cartridge and doesn't get to what ye olde 30-30 will do with 170s, it's hard for other people to appreciate the awesomeness expounded by its partisans and the marketeers who over sold it.
 
CQB and supressors, still covers nearly all HD use.

I'm not sure it's fair to hold the fact that it'll wreck a .223 AR's barrel if you shoot it in the wrong gun. It's pretty obvious which round is which, and it's not a round I keep stockpiled. I've only got 60 rounds left, right now. All on my HD AR (mag clamp).

So getting it mixed up on a range day, takes some pretty serious complacency.
 
There will always be fans and detractors of any caliber, old, new, or in between. Personally I think it's great that it's available for those that have a need or even just a want for it. It would be a dull old world with only.223, 30-30 and 30-06 to play or hunt with.
 
Its definitely a "niche" round. I think maybe a lot of people don't like it because its new (ish). For a higher round count gun like an AR that actually gets used a lot, it is probably less desirable due to ammo cost. I don't own one in AR, and don't care to. To me, it's an interesting round- mine is a Ruger American suppressed. With the new Hornady sub-x, I dropped a nice doe on thanksgiving, and a grey fox over the summer with subsonic Hornady black . Mrs FL-NC shoots it very well due to the light weight, and absence of noise and recoil- it is the gun she carries deer hunting, and its very effective on the small feeder plots where we have blinds. A friend cleanly killed a black bear in Maine with one firing 125 gr soft points. So, my 300 BLK is a "low round count" gun- if compared to any of my AR's or long range rifles, since its mostly used on critters. In all honesty, if it weren't for the suppressed capability, I probably wouldn't own one at all. Also, I paid $368 OTD for it at a gun show. As for all the hate? I guess because it is the newest "caliber of choice" for all of the wannabe operators.
 
Zerodefect said:
CQB and supressors, still covers nearly all HD use.

I'm not sure it's fair to hold the fact that it'll wreck a .223 AR's barrel if you shoot it in the wrong gun. It's pretty obvious which round is which, and it's not a round I keep stockpiled. I've only got 60 rounds left, right now. All on my HD AR (mag clamp).

So getting it mixed up on a range day, takes some pretty serious complacency.
Click to expand...
If I were to get a 300 BLK AR, I would do what my friend did- have 300 BLK laser etched on both sides of the upper, and select 1 color of Pmags specifically for 300, and stencil them on both sides.
 
Over the last five years I’ve probably fired 10k rounds of Blackout through a handful of rifles. I’ve fired more Blackout than 22LR. Over 99% of that has been with cast lead bullets, and 90% has been through a silencer.

If you want to get trigger time on a centerfire AR platform at the lowest possible cost then cast lead bullets and converted milsurp brass is absolutely the way to go. Plus, trying to get cast lead to shoot well in my rifles has really appealed to the tinkerer in me.

If I weren’t a bullet caster and hand loader I don’t know that the cartridge would have held much appeal to me, but it came along at just the right time in my life.
 
The above comment about loading is prolly the most critical issue. I don’t have a loading rig yet. I have three calibers I shoot and a handful I own because I love the guns. I just can’t run them right now. I’d rather burn 4 times the bullets in my 9mm than one box of 44 mag.
 
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