What a Night!

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rainbowbob

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I had a frustrating and potentialy ugly incident in my neighborhood early this morning. I didn't get much sleep as a result, so I'm still kind of groggy. I wanted to post this story to point out how wierd a situation can get in a hurry, to think through and hear from you what (if anything) I did right - and what I did wrong. Bear with me...their is a gun involved. So here goes:

We went to bed around 11:30, only to realize that on that side of the house, the noise coming from the church next door is unbearable. Loud (and I mean very loud), amplified drums and base thumping continuously along with shouting and chanting and what sounded like one voice louder than the rest leading the others in some kind of frenzied ritual.

Bear in mind that this is a church I have attended (however irregularly) - but this party is not the regular members. This is a group that the church has rented to in order to raise revenue.

We try to sleep but it is impossible to get more than a few exhausted winks before being jolted awake again. During all of this cars are coming and going, car doors are slamming, car alarms are being turned on with the accompanying horn honk, car alarms are going off, people outside the church are walking up and down the street in front of our house and talking, laughing, and shouting.

By 2:00am, after 31/2 hours, my wife finally couldn't take it any more (nor could I), and she asked me to call the police. I called the no-emergency line, got a recording, patiently went through the multiple phone tree options, and finally got an operator to take my complaint. She said she would send a car over, and I tried to sleep.

At 3:30am, with apparently no response from the police, I decided to go have a chat with the folks at the church. I had no idea what kind of crowd I was about to encounter, but my (perhaps foolish) assumption was that if the church would rent to them, they couldn't be too bad, right?

Naturally I don't go out unarmed and have my snub in my front pocket just in case somebody gets hinky. As I approach the parking lot, I notice dozens of (mostly) young men going in and out, going to their cars and then back in, trespassing in the other neighbor's yards, making as much noise as they can, and generally behaving like total asses. I also realize that before I could get in the door to complain to whoever is in charge, I would have to wade through all of these guys. I am not prepared to confront that many of them at once, with the possibility of being surrounded.

So I stand off the to the side, in my next-door neighbor's driveway and call the police again. This time I dial 911. I'm pretty sure I got the same operator who said she would send a car right over. I explained I would be waiting out there for them.

Just about then a couple of guys go walking up the street and stare at me long and hard. A minute later, they come driving back down the street and stop to ask me if I have a problem. I said that I, and most everyone else in the neighborhood was trying to sleep, seeing as how it was now almost 4:00am. At that point I had my hand firmly around the stock of my pocket pistol in an attitude I hoped would convince them to move along. They said they were just partying, shrugged, and drove off.

By now, 40 minutes had passed since I called police the second time (it's been two hours since the first call). All of a sudden, a car pulls from the street into the driveway nearly hitting me! I quickly back up the driveway facing the car and staring into the headlights. I can't see the occupants, but they back down the driveway a few feet and remain with the car and the headlights aimed at me.

I realize I'm boxed in and back about 30 feet away with my hand on my revolver, still in my pocket. There is a stand-off for a whart seemd like about three minutes, when I hear the voice of from the car say "Can you come out?" It's my neighbor! the last thing I expected was her driving up her driveway at 4:00am! I quickly go to her and apologize for frightening her and explain what had been going on. she agreed that these folks had created an intollerable nuisance and continued up her driveway.

I contiued to watch the activities, including more noise and more trespassing, until finally the party broke up without further incident - and no sign of the police.

I was so pissed I couldn't sleep for another hour - but the waking nightmare running through my fevered brain involved my neighbor driving at me and, believing I was being assaulted with deadly intent, pulling my weapon and in the worst case, firing at her!

Sorry for the long rant...as I said I'm still groggy. The good news is nothing bad happened - if you don't count an entire neighborhood losing a night of sleep.
 
So you deliberately attempted to put yourself into a situation that you couldn't control, and one that could have easily escalated and resulted in multiple people, yourself included, being hurt of killed? Not what I would call sound judgement, my friend.

I could see arming yourself and approaching them if they were damaging your property or otherwise being more than a nuisance, but sometimes you just have to deal with people partying on a Saturday night.

I wouldn't have gone over there. Just waited until the next day and talked ot the people in charge of renting out the church.
 
...sometimes you just have to deal with people partying on a Saturday night... I wouldn't have gone over there.

You are probably right. It is entirely possible that at 3:30 am, after nearly five hours of pounding noise and no sleep, my judgement was effected. I guess my first thought was that I would go in and introduce myself and ask them to tone it down to a dull roar (as my esteemed late father used to say). It wasn't until I got out there that I realized how out of control the situation was. That would have been the time to turn tail and go back in the house, while continuing to call the police.

In my defense, consider that this is usually a quiet neighborhood - and the church isn't a nightclub. I will admit that my anger was fueled by the fact that these folks don't live in the neighborhood, aren't from this country (based on the foreign language being spoken), don't attend the church, and had absolutely zero consideration for everyone around them.
 
I would have kept calling 911 until they responded. It could have got ugly outside (esp for you, with so many of them & only 1 of you). I would have made certain each of the neighbors called 911 also.

To serve & protect???
 
need to have a chat with the church...

<nodding> ... AND the Police Department.

I WILL have a chat with the church. I don't know who I would chat with at the P.D. that would do any good. They may say (and perhaps rightly so) they were too busy on a Saturday night (actually Sunday morning) to bother with a noise complaint.
 
rainbowbob said:
MachIVshooter said:
...sometimes you just have to deal with people partying on a Saturday night... I wouldn't have gone over there.

You are probably right. It is entirely possible that at 3:30 am, after nearly five hours of poundig noise and no sleep, my judgement was effected. I guess my first thought was that I would go in and introduce myself and ask them to tone it down to a dull roar (as my esteemed late father used to say). It wasn't until I got out there that I realized how out of control the situation was. That would have been the time to turn tail and go back in the house, while continuing to call the police.

In my defense, consider that this is usually a quiet neighborhood - and the the church isn't a nightclub. I will admit that my anger was fueled by the fact that these folks don't live here, don't attend the church, and had absolutely zero consideration for everyone around them.

I think it was ok to go over there. Your intentions were noble. Not like you were going over to start trash (were you??). :scrutiny:

Once or twice in the past I've been the guy making all the noise. You'd be surprised how during a shindig you can get used to the sound level to the point where it doesn't seem so bad, and you just don't think about it. A neighbor politely asking for it all to be toned down a bit isn't out of line, and I'd have gladly apologized with much sincerity and complied immediately.

On the other hand (kinda), you said you were angry. You probably should have either a) gone over there sooner before the anger got you; or b) calmed down first and put things in perspective.

Nothing wrong with going over. Just keep a level head and remember that we are ALL susceptible to going off the end if we're not careful about how we approach things, eh? ;)


-T.
 
Time to go door to door and have all your neighbors sign a letter of complaint. Present your complaints to the church and if you get no response, to your city council. It's too late to do anything about your situation now, and to be fair, the church itself may not be aware of the circumstances. I'm betting if you and your neighbors make the circumstances known and that the renters were displaying decidedly un-Christian behavior, they won't be renting to that particular bunch again. You did the right thing by being armed, but once you step off your property you've lost a few advantages.

ETA:

For the future, video can definitely be your friend. 10 minutes of video shot at 4:00 am on a Sunday morning might convince people more than a verbal or written complaint.
 
I can't believe the other neighbors slept through the noise and did not call the police too? I woud contact the church and complain to them for renting to noisy punks.

I would contact the neighbors and find out if any of them contacted the police or had similar concerns as you do.

It is amazing how so many people accept things happening all around them and yet will not try and do anything about it?:cool:
 
...you said you were angry.

I really wasn't over-the-top angry and intended to ask them NICELY to shut it down (it WAS after 3:30 am by this time).

For the future, video can definitely be your friend.

That's a good idea...next time.

I just spoke to the desk seargent at my local precinct. Predictably (and truthfully) he told me they are undermanned and overwhelmed. He suggested going to the city council and demading more funding for the police to hire enough officers to do the job. He said candidly that noise doesn't kill anybody, and those complaints go to the bottom of the list - especially on a busy Saturday night.

I was formally an active member in the church and still know most everyone there. I will give them a call and let them know what happened. It will be interesting to find out what kind of shape they left the church in for services(six hours later).
 
I can't believe the other neighbors slept through the noise and did not call the police too?

I can't either. Many of the neighbors are even closer than we are (as we are off the street some). Those folks had headlights shining in their windows, people trespassing in their yards, and shouting and laughing right in their front yards. I didn't see another neighbor except the woman who nearly ran me over in her driveway (at 4:00am!). I think people were just too intimidated to do anything but stay behind their locked doors. I'll ask around.
 
That sucks.

One time I had a guy park his car (apartment complex) under my bedroom window at 12 am and he just sat there with the engine running until 3 am, before I finally went out and asked him if everything was OK. He said everything was fine, and apologized for leaving the car on. It was hot out, the window needed to be open and the parked car was so close I could smell the fumes from his car. He was in there talking to his girl friend??? I was so pissed.
 
quote - was formally an active member in the church and still know most everyone there. I will give them a call and let them know what happened.-End quote

I'd have called them @ 1:00 AM & @ 2 & again at 3:00.
They rented the building. If I had their phone #, it would be their problem, too.
 
I'd have called them @ 1:00 AM & @ 2 & again at 3:00.
They rented the building. If I had their phone #, it would be their problem, too.

I should have thought of that, of course. I would have had to do some digging for their phone numbers - but I could have found them. I guess I hesitated (after not being active) to have my next communication be a complaint at 2am. But I should have.
 
Hey Bob, I seem to recall a few months back you wrote about similar problems in your neighborhood (noise etc). If I'm wrong, forgive me. If I'm right, maybe you need to think about moving? We are no longer living in an enlightened, polite society and I think you could be jeapordizing your freedom. Maybe get a petition and sue the Church. Not every Church is a house of God, and this one sounds too much like the Love of Money Church.
 
Hey Bob, I seem to recall a few months back you wrote about similar problems in your neighborhood (noise etc). If I'm wrong, forgive me. If I'm right, maybe you need to think about moving?

No, I didn't write about a noise problem - although I have written about other neighborhood problems (e.g., thuggies and druggies at the local playground). We are moving as soon as we can sell out house (in a down market).

Maybe get a petition and sue the Church. Not every Church is a house of God, and this one sounds too much like the Love of Money Church.

Actually it is a wonderful church in which I used to be much more active. My current lack of active participation has little to do with them and everything to do with me. Like many small congregations, they must raise revenues in order to survive. I doubt very much they had any idea this group would behave this way.

This is an excerpt from the email I wrote to the co-pastors (abridged from the OP):

I apologize for the long rant...I'm still a little groggy from lack of sleep. I also regret having to call the police – but I really did not know what else to do under the circumstances. Perhaps I should have called you, but I didn’t want to disturb you for something you probably had nothing to do with. Had it ended by midnight or so, it wouldn’t have even been much of a problem at all.

Although I haven’t participated in the activities of the church in a long time, I am still very supportive (at least in spirit) of the good work you do. I understand the need to raise revenue in every possible way – but I hope you will reconsider allowing this particular group from using the church for this kind of event in the future. I’m also curious what kind of shape they left the church in this morning. I hope they treated the church with respect and left it in the condition they found it. The neighborhood is a little worse for wear, however – at least until we make up for the lost sleep.
 
To put a capper on this one...the response from the pastor of the church:

Dear Bob,

I am very, very sorry for all of the trouble last night. The event was a naming ceremony for a baby born to a couple from Gambia. When we were approached about renting the space we were hesitant because of the hours requested. We told them that we were in a residential area and they were to be quiet, to keep everyone inside, to leave quietly and clean up afterwards. They agreed, telling us that this was a quiet ceremony and dinner and they would not be rowdy. Obviously by the state of the parking lot this a.m., by the state of the church and by your report from the email, none of this proved to be the case!!! We learned our lesson – will certainly not rent to this group again, will not rent to ANYONE past 10pm and will drill them with questions about their activities if we don’t know the group.

I am very glad you called the police. I wish they had arrived and called me. I’m also very glad you sent this information.

The same family are renting the church tonight (that’s where I am right now) from now – they haven’t arrived yet – until 11pm. I am going to tell them of the report, of my disappointment in the state of the church this a.m. I’m also going to come back around 7pm and plan to stay until they leave.

Again, I am very sorry. I will send a letter out to the neighbors tomorrow with my apologies. We very much want to be good neighbors and are very ashamed at the behavior that came from our property. If you hear of any comments from neighbors, please direct them to me and I will email them, call or pay a visit, whichever they prefer.
 
Could have been worse. My brother lives in an apartment with two rooms below him and one above him. It was graduation night and the people upstairs asked if they're mom could set up a BBQ in the back yard and if they could have some friends over for the BBQ. My brother is kind of in charge of the apartment building since he is friends with the owner and he lives out of town so the owner put him in charge of organizing the repairs and taking care of the lawn and such. Well my bro said yes. That night, my mom, sister, and two nieces along with my grandma were staying at my brother's house when a LOAD kegger starts upstairs. After about two hours my brother goes up and asks them to turn their music down a bit so we could sleep. They said yes and did so. As soon as he shut the door we could hear them say to turn the music back up and it got even loader then before. After about another hour (by now near 3-4 in the morning) my brother called the cops and they came and broke up the party (is was a violation of their lease anyway). Once all the guests were gone, we could hear them talking about killing my brother for it. They even tried the door but it was locked. At this time, the only gun my bro had was a Ruger Mk1 22lr so it isn't much good for SD but he has a black belt and is pretty good in judo and Krav Maga (sp?) and when they tried the door he was standing just to the side holding a 50lb kettlebell ready to smash in the first skull that walked through the door. After they tried the door they went back up and we heard them talking about which gun to use and such. My brother ended up standing there most of the night. Thankfully nothing else happened.
 
I can't either. Many of the neighbors are even closer than we are (as we are off the street some). Those folks had headlights shining in their windows, people trespassing in their yards, and shouting and laughing right in their front yards. I didn't see another neighbor except the woman who nearly ran me over in her driveway (at 4:00am!). I think people were just too intimidated to do anything but stay behind their locked doors. I'll ask around.

I've been surprised by the number of people who won't call the police on ridiculously loud music or parties. It's not my preference - the police usually have far more important things to deal with, "it's just noise", one doesn't want to have bad relations with the neighbors, etc. But sometimes it just has to be done, and I'm surprised more people don't call and complain. I think people just end up tolerating (however thinly) stuff like that, hoping it will go away, and not wanting to get involved.
 
I probably would have done the same thing, but now that i'm reading what happened it doesn't look like one guy could have done much.

Lets assume you could have talked to the guy in charge, theres no way that even if he did agree with you that he could calm down a hundred people, completley loaded at 3:30am. No way.

Unfortunatley this is one of those situations where your just going to have to deal with it in the now, and fight it tomorrow. When everything has died down and you've had time to cool off I would have had a talk with the man in charge of the church. A good long talk in which he really gets how you felt that night. I can't agree with anyone who says that they shouldn't be partying, we all need a hit of fun once in a while, but they need to respect their surroundings. That means people stay inside the church, shut the doors and do whatever the hell they want inside, not out.
People walking up and down the streets, laughing and dicking around, going into peoples yards is competley unacceptable, keep it in the church.

The only thing you could have done was call the cops, which you did. Theres an expression i heard in a movie, 'live today, fight tomorrow' I'm sure you heard it in some form or another. In this case its just on a much smaller level however in which death is most likely not going to be involved :D
 
Hmmm...

I agree that you ought to have a chat with the church. Completely unacceptable behavior at a church, and not the type of stuff that I would imagine they would like to be associated with.

Also, you might call back to the non-emergency number and ask to speak to a supervisor in the radio room. Explain your concern.

Quite honestly, you could have fallen through the cracks depending on call load. If we are tied up on a shooting (or the like), things like noise complaints can often get back logged by even 5-6 hours (not that this helps your situation one bit).

Keep in mind that all calls are assigned a priority by dispatch... Crimes against persons take priority over crimes against property, and property crimes trump nuissance calls (parking, noise, etc).

If you started to feel threatened, I'd have called back and explained that to the dispatcher (in your case it sounds like you were saying: "these people drove up to me and started asking me if I had a problem, acting like they were going to assault me... please send an officer before something happens").

Certainly don't lie to the police to get a faster response, but don't be afraid to tell them what is happening if it seems like an assault (or other criminal behavior) is imminent.

I can't tell you how many times I've been diverted from a parking/noise complaint by dispatch because a higher priority call popped up!
 
That's terrible behavior for a Church. Perhaps these ravers get a kick out of the fact that they're behaving like that in a place which would otherwise be set apart for God. You should definitely talk to the people in charge of renting it to those people and tell them what happened that night.
 
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