What all can I hunt with 10mm?

[MikePGS]

Say I were to get a S&W 610 in either 4 or 6 nich barrel length. What could I use this for? Deer? Black Bear?

Ultimately I want to hunt with a handgun exclusively, so just trying to get some info before that time comes

 

[greenr18]

I would NOT take on a Black Bear with 10mm unless you want to be charged and then viciously mauled.

 

[H&Hhunter]

A hot 10 MM is just under what you can do with a .41 mag. I'd have no problem at all hunting black bear with a 10MM. IF I was using hounds and treeing them. I've shot a bears out of trees with a .357 mag and 158 gr soft points on many an occasion. It works great a 10MM would be just a bit better.

 

[brandonc]

Elk, but only as a back up, or sidearm.

 

[bpl]

It might work as a backup sidearm when hunting squirrels or rabbits.

 

[John828]

Mike,

You can hunt pretty much anything you want as long as your bullets are appropriately structured for the type of game you plan to hunt. Again, as with any gun, where you hit the animal is more important that what you hit them with (for the most part.)

 

[Art Eatman]

I'd say the limitation on deer or black bear would be skill: How far out can you almost always hit the end of a soda pop can? That is, at least seven out of ten, and the misses are very close.

 

[caribou]

Hunt what ever you desire!

Now the hard part would be to get close and shoot it in a vital organ or brain/spine. I like temple shots, between the eye and ear.

Good Luck, and dont try this at home!

 

[obxflea]

.40 S&W works fine on deer here in VA, though I have seen some mountain deer that can run off with a .243 bullet. The 10mm is quite capable as long as you arent hunting 200# monsters. 80-100# is no problem, of course you have to make a good shot. I was thinking about a 610 myself, there is one sitting in the shop down the road with a 6" barrel.:banghead: Why do I have to go in the shop?:banghead:

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Go with the 6" and keep your shots to around 40 yards or so and you should be able to harvest deer, hogs, black bear, and even elk or moose with a good shot and 200 grain penetrators.

 

[Gryffydd]

A hot 10 MM is just under what you can do with a .41 mag

I wouldn't go that far. Buffalo Bore's loads for these calibers:

10mm: 180 gr. Speer Uni Core - J.H.P. (1,350fps/M.E. 728 ft.lbs.)

.41mag: 230 gr. SWC (Keith-type) (1450 fps 1074 ft. lbs.)

.357 mag: 180 gr. LFN-GC (1400 fps ME 783 ft. lbs.)

The 41 can push a 230gr bullet 100fps faster than the 10mm can push a 180. That's significant. And on velocity and energy figures it just misses a tie with the .357. You can decide whether the larger caliber is worth the loss in sectional density.

The "just under a .41mag" comment is one I hear a lot, but it just doesn't seem to be borne out by the numbers.

Edit: Back on topic...The 10mm would be sufficient for *hunting* black bear. That's a far cry from defending yourself from a charging black bear.

 

[H&Hhunter]

A 10 MM will push a 200 gr bullet @ 1200 + FPS. A standard max .41 mag load with a 200 gr bullet is 1428 FPS which is really not that far off. Especially considering the incresed rate of fire and magazine capacity of a 10 MM auto pistol. While it is not a .41 mag it is plenty good enough for hunting little stuff like deer and black bear. As far as protection from a black bear charge goes the difference between a .41 mag and 10 MM is insignificant. In fact the difference between it and a .44 mag is insignificant. There are no hand gun rounds that carry enough stuff to stop anything large and pissed off with the shear brute force of the round. It is going to be about shot placement and penetration.

Me personally I have no problem carrying a 10 MM in bear country and that includes grizz country. A 200 gr penetrating bullet out of a 10MM isn't going to b-slap anything to the ground with a body shot but neither does a 330gr Garret Hammer head out of a .44 mag. I've seen multiple hogs shot with big .44 loads, .500 Linebaugh, .475 Linebaugh. They are unimpressive with a body shot. They always run and usually for pretty long ways unless you can break something important like a spine.

The few hogs that I've shot with a 10 MM did the same thing they ran for a while then died the bullets usually completely penetrate and stop in the off hand hide. Just like the .44 mags and the even the bigger stuff.

So to my way of thinking in an animal defense situation it makes more sense to have multiple rounds and use a gun style that you've trained to fight with. All of my defensive training with a hand gun has been with a semi auto so my comfort level is very high with one and 16 rounds up and 30 more on the belt are a comfort as well.

Mileage will vary on this subject. Just my humble opinion.

 

[Gryffydd]

A 10 MM will push a 200 gr bullet @ near 1200 + FPS. A standard max .41 mag load with a 200 gr bullet is 1428 FPS

200@1200fps is about as fast as I've ever seen a 10mm load. On the other hand. 200@1428 may be a "standard max" .41 load, but why compare that to a true max load in the 10mm? Why not compare Apples to Apples. A max load for the .41 can push a 265gr bullet to 1558fps! The only way a 10mm is close to the .41 is when you cherry pick your numbers.

There are no hand gun rounds that carry enough stuff to stop anything large and pissed off with the shear brute force of the round. It is going to be about shot placement and penetration.

No argument on that point, except that you're always going to get more penetration with a better round. And 265@1558 is most definitely going to give you better penetration than 200@1200. Not saying 200@1200 wouldn't be enough, but I like to get all the advantage that I can. Given that I'm comfortable with revolvers and from everything I've read you're probably not going to have time to reload that 10mm anyway, I'd much rather make my first 6 shots really count.

Basically, other than saying the 10mm is ballistically similar to the .41mag, I agree with everything you said, I just have a different philosophy.

Note: I don't own or carry a .41mag. I carry either a GP100 or a Bisley in .45 Colt. 300gr@1400fps is also nothing to sneeze at

 

[BremenQ2]

I have a 10mm 1911 which I've only used twice on big game, both whitetail. Two years ago I took a good size doe with a 180gr XTP at 1300fps, nice broadside lung shot. A year later I used the same load to finish a smaller deer that had been hit poorly by a deflected shotgun slug. Not a lot of firsthand experience, I know, but hey I'll share what I can.

The .400 180 XTP didn't open up too quickly and should provide sufficient penetration on bigger critters like hogs and black bear, but entry/exit holes weren't impressive and in neither case did the animal DRT. The broadside-hit doe stumbled slowly about 30 yards before realizing she was done for. Of course with another bullet/velocity YMMV.

If the 10mm is what gets you going, it'll certainly work for deer given good bullet selection. I've never hunted anything larger so I'll shut up about that except to say there's a lot of other good options in a wheelgun.

 

[IdahoLT1]

THe 10mm is a bit "hotter" than the 357mag in similar bullet weights. Its ~200fps slower than the .41mag in similar bullet weights, when both are loaded to their potential. The 10mm in an autoloader, IMO, is a better SD woods carry gun than a revolver in any caliber because you get a a ton of firepower with lower recoil and can send lead down range far quicker. I'd rather get 5 shots of 10mm down range rather than 2 shots of 44mag.

200@1200fps is about as fast as I've ever seen a 10mm load. On the other hand. 200@1428 may be a "standard max" .41 load, but why compare that to a true max load in the 10mm? Why not compare Apples to Apples. A max load for the .41 can push a 265gr bullet to 1558fps! The only way a 10mm is close to the .41 is when you cherry pick your numbers.

265gr.@1558fps? Im calling BS on that one. Thats faster than hot 44 mag loads. The .41mag could reach those velocities if it was used in a rifle.
.44mag
Double tap- 250gr@1500fps
Buffalo bore- 270gr@1450fps

.41mag
buffalo bore- 265gr@1350fps

 

[Gryffydd]

THe 10mm is a bit "hotter" than the 357mag in similar bullet weights.

Really!? Please define "hotter" because in any given bullet weight the .357 can be 50-100fps faster, though once you get to 200 they're awfully close to a tie.

265gr.@1558fps? Im calling BS on that one. Thats faster than hot 44 mag loads.

Try poking your head in a reloading manual some time. If you want to call BS on it, go ahead and call Hodgdon and tell them. Here's their load data, from a 10" Barrel.

265 GR. WLNGC Hodgdon Lil'Gun 21.3gr 1558fps 35,400 CUP

As to the .44mag, if it can do 340gr@1478, 265@1558 is nowhere near a "hot 44 mag load."

I'm not arguing about the advantages or disadvantages of pistol platforms. I thought I made that pretty clear in my last post. I'm happy to grant the advantages that the auto platform has in general over revolvers, just as I'm happy to grant the advantages revolvers have. The only thing I disagree with anybody on so far is where the 10mm itself falls in against the revolver magnums.

 

[Gryffydd]

One other thing... 240-270gr in the .44mag is on the light side. It can't work to its full potential at those bullet weights. There's no reason the .41 can't match it in that weight range.

And since you've clearly discovered the Buffalo Bore page and feel comfortable with it as a resource, let's look at that again.

10mm: 200 gr. 1,200fps 639 ft.lbs.
.41 Mag: 265 gr. 1350 fps 1072 ft. lbs

I think that covers my whole point. That's 67% more muzzle energy to the .41Mag. There's no comparison.

Every time this topic comes up the 10mm apologists come out of the woodwork and try to compare the 10mm to the .41 and .357. Now, I think the 10mm is absolutely awesome, and I plan on getting one some day. But I have no illusions that in terms of ballistics (i.e. not delivery platforms) it comes anywhere close to the .41 and pretty much ties the .357.

 

[moooose102]

basicly, anything you want. you may just have to do it a little differently. think about it, fred bear hunted lion, cape buffalo, and elephant with a couple of sticks. so, just what do you want to hunt?

 

[rcmodel]

Michigan has a 9+1 round limit for hunting handguns.

Careful you don't run afoul of that.

rc

 

[LeonCarr]

Ted Nugent killed a Warthog (+/- 300 pounds) at 109 yards with a 10mm Glock.

A buddy of mine has killed several feral hogs in the 300 pound range with his S&W 1006 out to 80 yards, using 200 grain lead truncated cone handloads.

IME with the right load (180-200 grain Hornady XTP, truncated cone lead, or similar projectile) the 10mm will take deer and hogs with careful shot placement inside 100 yards.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[IdahoLT1]

Really!? Please define "hotter" because in any given bullet weight the .357 can be 50-100fps faster, though once you get to 200 they're awfully close to a tie.

I would give the 10mm a slight nod, using similar barrel lengths. Since i dont have my reloading books at my house, and Double Tap loads theirs hotter than what my Hornady, Sierra and speer manuals recommend(i recall their info, suggesting the max load for a 10mm 200gr bullet produces ~1050-1100fps in a 5" barrel), i go off their data for "max" velocities of most calibers. I could almost guarantee you that DT's loads will outperform the "max" loads most manuals give, in almost every caliber. Heres DT's data:

10mm from a 3.78" barrel in a G29:
155gr@1405fps
180gr@1245fps
200gr@1225

.357mag from a 4" Ruger GP100:
158gr@1400fps
180gr@1300fps
200gr@1200fps

Try poking your head in a reloading manual some time. If you want to call BS on it, go ahead and call Hodgdon and tell them. Here's their load data, from a 10" Barrel.

Quote:
265 GR. WLNGC Hodgdon Lil'Gun 21.3gr 1558fps 35,400 CUP

There we go, theres the reason why. Your manual is using a revolver that used a 10" barrel. Everything on DT's and Buffalo bores site list their barrel lengths. I was assuming you were trying to claim those velocities using a 6" barrel. BB and DT use 4", 6" and 6.5". Apples to apples, like you said yourself.

As to the .44mag, if it can do 340gr@1478, 265@1558 is nowhere near a "hot 44 mag load."

I'm not arguing about the advantages or disadvantages of pistol platforms. I thought I made that pretty clear in my last post. I'm happy to grant the advantages that the auto platform has in general over revolvers, just as I'm happy to grant the advantages revolvers have. The only thing I disagree with anybody on so far is where the 10mm itself falls in against the revolver magnums.

A "hot" .44mag load, using a 250gr. bullet is ~1500fps. Thats about as fast as you can get it going using a 6.5" barrel(which is what DT uses).

And since you've clearly discovered the Buffalo Bore page and feel comfortable with it as a resource, let's look at that again.

Quote:
10mm: 200 gr. 1,200fps 639 ft.lbs.
.41 Mag: 265 gr. 1350 fps 1072 ft. lbs

I think that covers my whole point. That's 67% more muzzle energy to the .41Mag. There's no comparison.

Every time this topic comes up the 10mm apologists come out of the woodwork and try to compare the 10mm to the .41 and .357. Now, I think the 10mm is absolutely awesome, and I plan on getting one some day. But I have no illusions that in terms of ballistics (i.e. not delivery platforms) it comes anywhere close to the .41 and pretty much ties the .357. One other thing... 240-270gr in the .44mag is on the light side. It can't work to its full potential at those bullet weights. There's no reason the .41 can't match it in that weight range.

The 10mm can produce similar, if not better, velocities than the .357mag, using similar barrel lengths. When you compare the 10mm using a 3.78" barrel and a 4" 357mag barrel and the 10mm performs better than the 357mag, all using similar bullet weights, i will say it can be faster. Now when you compare 110mm data using a 5" barrel and 357mag using a 10" barrel", and the 357mag comes out on top, youre not comparing apples to apples.

Nowhere did i say the 10mm is similar to a .41mag. If you can find where i did, i will give you a cookie. Alot of people say it falls in between, which it does(albeit closer to the 357mag side). I did however say that the 10mm can push bullets faster than the 357mag, when they both are using identical bullet weights and barrel lengths.




To answer to OP's question, ive seen guys take down small-medium sized deer at short to medium pistol ranges. While the 10mm can be an effective cartridge for hunting, most people, like myself, buy them with self defense being the first guidline. 16 rounds of 200gr bullets creating 722ft/lbs gives the 10mm 11,552 total ft/lbs of firepower, where as 6 rounds of 340gr .44mag +P+ producing 1649ft/lbs will give you 9,984 total ft/lbs of firepower. A 10mm owner gets almost 3x the amount of rounds, in a faster shooting and lighter recoiling platform, when compared to most revolvers.

 

[Gryffydd]

Nowhere did i say the 10mm is similar to a .41mag. If you can find where i did, i will give you a cookie.

I wasn't referring to you. However, you did in fact underestimate the .41 mag.

I did however say that the 10mm can push bullets faster than the 357mag, when they both are using identical bullet weights and barrel lengths.

Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Double Tap's are almost tied but give the 10mm the edge, Buffalo Bore's are almost tied but give the .357 a slight edge. In one the 10 comes out just barely ahead, in the other the 357 comes out ahead. The fact is that they are very comparable. We could look at 10 different ammo manufacturers and loadbooks and find a good mix of one or the other being the faster. Add in the variance in barrel lengths etc. used in all the various testing and you have a completely ambiguous mess.

My one and only point was that the 10mm is nowhere close to the .41 and is *very* close to the .357--which is also nowhere close to a .41.

10mm 11,552 total ft/lbs of firepower, where as 6 rounds of 340gr .44mag +P+ producing 1649ft/lbs will give you 9,984 total ft/lbs of firepower.

This is an excellent argument for a number of applications to which the 10mm may be put. However, when hunting you can't guarantee that the game will stick around for a followup shot. John Woo style deer hunting isn't very practical. There are also some situations where if one shot at 723lb/ft doesn't do the job 16 won't either. Granted those are the situations where someone won't be likely using the 10mm anyway. And in any case, as the OP was asking about the 10mm for use in a revolver, none of those arguments are relevant.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Every time this topic comes up the 10mm apologists come out of the woodwork and try to compare the 10mm to the .41 and .357.

I am not apologizing for the 10MM. I just like the round for what it is and that it is available in a light fast shooting auto pistol. Your points about the heavier bullets available at higher velocity are very valid points and that is where the .41 shines over a 10MM from a power stand point no doubt about it.

But the 10MM is not some weak sister that is hardly capable of killing rabbits and squirrels as has be intimated by one of our members on this thread. I guess that is my main point.

I've killed several black bears with a .357 Mag when hunting them with hounds and treeing them and the .357 does a right fine job of it too. So in regards to the original question in my opinion yes the 10MM would be a fine black bear hunting round under the right circumstances.

I also wouldn't feel naked carrying one for any kind of bear defense, black or grizzly, in the lower 48.

My thinking on big bear defense up North goes something like this. If you want to stop a bear with a pistol and I mean any pistol firing a pistol round you are going to have hit the CNS, brain or spine. I might be all wet on this but I think for me a hot 10MM firing 200 gr trunkated solids is going to get to the brain just as good as hot .44 mag with 330 gr hot solids so I would rather have a gun that I am fast and accurate with that has just enough rather than a big honking heavy revolver that is slow to handle and kicks the crud out of you.

When I lived in Alaska I used to carry a 629 in .44 mag with 330 gr cast core bullets heated up as much as I felt safe to fire. If I ever move back I think I'll carry my G-20. Of course my primary bear gun is a .375H&H in a stainless carbine that I've carried for years the pistol is pretty much there for two reasons. 1. In case you don't happen to have your long gun with you at the time and second in case you have to finish yourself off after a severe mauling and you can't get to help before you freeze, bleed, or have the magpies and wolverines scavenge you to death after the fact.

Wouldn't it suck to have your legs broken your face ripped off, multiple penetrating wounds your arms broken one of your eyes ripped out, your lower jaw ripped off and have to sit there and wait to die from exposure, shock or scavengers?

 

[Gryffydd]

I have great respect for the 10mm. I agree with its use on black bear as you can see earlier in this this thread.

If I liked autos for something other than defense against two legged critters I'd have one. For my purposes I'll stick with my 45acp for that and my revolvers for everything else. But that's just me. I certainly won't tell anyone they're wrong for carrying or hunting with a 10mm.

Now if somebody makes a good high capacity 10mm that fits my hand I'd get one. The 1911s don't give a capacity advantage, the Glock 20 feels like a 2x4. The Witness just doesn't look that great, but it's getting close but has its own issues.

 

[H&Hhunter]

the Glock 20 feels like a 2x4.

I agree that grip is way stupid chunky on a G-20!

Somebody told me that there is a company that makes an after market lower for the G-20 that is slimmed down quite nicely. Maybe one of our resident Glock maniacs knows if that is in fact true?