What are the rarest NFA rifles in the country?

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The Grand Inquisitor

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Last night I was thinking about what kind of rifles are in the NFA registry system - by which I mean I was thinking about what there is an abundance of, and what are some of the rarer items.

From the cursory looks I've given NFA firearms, it seems like there are plenty of things like Uzi's, Mac's, AR's, and FNC's, but on the other hand I've seen very few full auto FAL's (even though the FAL is very popular and common in semi-auto).

What are the rarest NFA items? - obviously items that are post-86 Dealer samples don't count (which makes everything made post-86 rare...) and to some degree neither do very rare and old firearms like Vickers or FG42's (although I'd love to get my hands on a SEMI AUTO FG42...much less an original one).
 
M-249 (just not many of them in the country pre-86)

BAR (of all of them mfg'd MANY went to allies when they were retired from frontline service.)

STG-44 aside from being a wartime bring-back with rare ammuntion, there just weren't that many produced.

FG-42, even more so.

Full auto AK-74's were not readily available for civilain sale (and were downright hard to get your hands on unless you wanted to travel to Afghanistan and take one off a Soviet soldier) until the mid '80s... supposedly only a handful were imported.

That's not counting the 'concept' guns and prototypes in the hands of firearms collectors and museums.
 
I think there are like three transferable SAWs in the country.

How much is a pre-'86 FN MAG? Impact Guns has one for like seventy thousand dollars. Must be rare.

Are there any transferable PK machine guns? Bren Guns?
 
There are no transferrable Glock 18's. All Glocks were imported until recently when they started making some in the US. Machine guns that were imported after the passage of the GCA in 1968 are not transferrable, they're pre-samples. There's a few Glock 17's that were converted after importation.

The lone transferrable Mk19 GMG is probably the rarest (and most expensive) transferrable machine gun.
 
As far as I know, Less than six mini guns are out there. less than 20 240G/B variants, Twenty or thirty SAW's, only a couple of others get down that low on numbers. I believe there are some GAU 19's (.50 cals) that were papered before the ban went into effect. I saw several minimi's at a shoot.

Small arms, FG 42's are very rare as they just didn't make very many. 60 years later, even fewer remain.

I am sure their are some one off's floating around. One of a kind examples or prototypes, I know of a MG 42 manufactured by H&R. Same Guy has M-60 with a Savage stamp on it. Only it just is not a M-60, maybe their competing example.
 
Dont forget that more than a few "collectors" are technically SOT3s, because it is cheaper to pay to be a Class 3 your whole life than to overspend on 3 or 4 of the rarer guns because there are no pre86 specimens available. If you plan to buy more than one MG every couple of years, I think maintaining an SOT3 would be worthwhile.

The savings from buying a single M16 at market price instead of pre86 price would be about 12000 dollars. That's over a decade's worth of dealer fees. If you buy 2 or 3 MGs a year, not getting an SOT3 is stupid.

So many of the pricey guns you see at MG shoots are post 86 dealer samples.
 
beerslurpy, because of the number and kind of MGs I want to experiment with and try to develop my own, I'll need to go that route as well. I'm betting it's quite common.
 
But I thought that when the ATF finds out that you got a SOT3 just to play with full autos and not for business, you get your license revoked?:confused:
 
I saw an Argentine Maxim at Knob Creek a few years ago, the owner told me it was one of only 3 known to exist - one being bronzed in a cemetary, the other was in another private collection. That's pretty rare.
 
But I thought that when the ATF finds out that you got a SOT3 just to play with full autos and not for business, you get your license revoked?
Click to expand...

If you can't show that you're conducting or attempting to conduct business, they will revoke your license or worse. On the other hand, why not try to conduct some business? Sell suppressors, set up tables at gunshows, etc. Not that difficult to do, and probably enjoyable.
 
No. It isn't. The importation or manufacture of new machine guns was stopped May 19th, 1986. Tacked on to FOPA. That is why they are reffered to as POST '86 dealer samples.

I am an SOT. Yes, you do need to engage in commerce. And you can't just dink around about it, or you will get your license revoked.


# Edited to say - he's right. I was thinking of something else #
 
On top of the FOPA machine gun restrictions, any NFA weapon imported into the U.S. after the Gun Control Act took effect (end of 1968) cannot be transferred to an individual. See 26 U.S.C. sec. 5844. They can be transferred to SOT's, although without any written police demonstration request, and kept by the SOT after surrendering his SOT. These are sometimes called "pre-86 samples", or "dealer samples", although dealer sample can be used to refer to either a post-86 machine gun or to any NFA weapon imported after 1968.
Click to expand...
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/nfa_faq.txt
 
No. It isn't. The importation or manufacture of new machine guns was stopped May 19th, 1986. Tacked on to FOPA. That is why they are reffered to as POST '86 dealer samples.
Click to expand...

No, 922(o) did not stop or make illegal the importation or manufacture of machine guns. It only covers transfer and possession.

There's three basic classes of machine guns: transferrables, pre-samples and post-samples.

Transferrable: domestically manufactured and registered prior to May 19, 1986 or foreign-manufactured and registered prior to 1968. The 1934 NFA made no distinction between domestic and foreign manufactured machine guns.

Pre-sample: foreign-manufactured machine guns imported and registered between 1968 and May 19, 1986. The 1968 GCA differentiated between domestic and foreign title II firearms, and only allowed domestic manufactured title II guns registered after that date to be transferred to the general public. Incidentally, this is why the general public can't currently buy foreign-manufactured suppressors, SBR's, SBSes, etc, because they're all pre-samples.

Post-sample: any machine gun registered after May 19, 1986.

As I mentioned in my previous note, all Glocks were of foreign manufacture until quite recently. So a Glock 18, being foreign-manufactured, would have to have been imported prior to 1968 to be transferrable. Since the first Glock prototype wouldn't exist for another 15 years or so, that means any Glock 18 would have been imported after 1968, and therefore be a pre-sample.

Since you're an SOT, I'm surprised you don't know this.
 
What about the Skorpion?

I was told the other day that there are only about 5 of them known to be in this country (legally, at least).
 
You're right. I was thinking of something else and didn't make the importation connection. I originally was thinking you were saying '68 was the total cutoff instead of '86. Sorry about that.

The legal nuances are why we have PvtPyle where I work. He's the NFA guru. I'm the guy that pays the bills. :)
 
Any idea of the dollar cutoff for business? I plan to set up in VT and offer SBS, SBR, AOW, but no post-86 MGs and no silencers (state law on the last one)

I would think that if I could sell one item a month at the least, whether to another dealer in another state or in person after processing the paperwork, I would be able to stay open.


Here's a good question; what happens when the business gets closed? Would I be able to transfer all of the remaining NFA items to myself?
 
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