What caliber and make does Ayoob carry these days?

[bluetopper]

double post.......sorry

 

[Phydeaux642]

Wow. There sure is no shortage of people with an ax to grind around here.

 

[Mr.510]

I'm sorry to the OP for continuing the hijacking of this thread. But I have to say that if I am ever forced to use a weapon in self defense my hands-down, number one pick of people to be on my legal team is Massad Ayoob.... and he's a HighRoader too.

 

[threefeathers]

Mr. 510, we will be having an LFI II class in WA soon, have you been through it?

 

[Billy Shears]

Open carry of a handgun is NOT forcing your view onto someone else. It is exercising your 2ndamd right.
Maybe freedom of speech could be viewed as dangerous as guns too? It is still a right.
No one should be allowed to pull their gun and walk around with it in their hand. Just as no one should be allowed to go into a movie theater and shout "FIRE!".
But, our discourse here is as tame and protected by the 1stamd as a holstered gun is protected by the 2ndamd.

As the old saying goes, "just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should."

Even though it is one's right, carrying openly is really no more a good idea than passing out leaflets for the KKK to exercise one's right to free speech. There are several good reasons not to carry openly.

1) If you can even buy a handgun legally in the first place, then you should have no trouble qualifying for a concealed weapons permit, so why not just get one?

2) Carrying openly unnecessarily alarms people. I can tell you as a police officer, some of these people will call the police emergency number and put in "person with a weapon" calls. You will then have a policeman come to investigate you. Even if you are 100% within your rights, why invite that sort of attention? Especially since not all cops are created equal. They're only human, and being as that's the case, some are jerks, and some don't know the law as well as they ought to. You may end up getting one of those. So why run that risk?

3) Gun control advocates are engaged in a culture war, and have been attempting for decades, unfortunately with some success it must be said, to marginalize gun ownership and portray gun owners as paranoid, dangerous rednecks. They'd love for most people to view gun owners in the same light as those militia wingnuts, and members of other extremist groups, so as to make people less sympathetic to gun owners, and thus more likely to support gun control. Most people will view any ordinary civilian who carries a gun openly as paranoid, Rambo wannabe. Sure you may overcome that impression with people who know you well, but most people will still go away with that impression. This is playing right into the hands of the gun grabbers. Why give them the rope to hang you with?

4) If everyone knows you are armed, that means the bad guys know it too. That may deter some, but it won't deter all of them. If some guy wants to walk into a restaurant where you are eating and shoot up the place so he can go out like Charles Whitman or Cho Sung Hui, he may just shoot you first, before you even know what's happening. Or if it's an ordinary mugger, he may knock you over the head before you're even aware of the threat, so that he can take your gun, which I'm sure he'd love to have. Tactically, it's just far, far better if no one knows you're armed.

5) While I'm not going to encourage you to break the law, the fact is that if you're gun is concealed, you can probably get away with carrying it places where you are not supposed to (e.g. restaurants where alcoholic beverages are served, et al.). As long as you don't alert anyone to the gun's presence, no one need ever know, and if trouble breaks out, you are not caught unarmed. This is not possible if you are carrying openly.

All of these problems can be avoided by exercising your right to carry concealed. So why not do that? Unless you live in a state where concealed carry is not possible, and only open carry is, I really can't, for the life of me, see the up side to carrying in the open.

 

[Guillermo]

2) Carrying openly unnecessarily alarms people.

Hiding our guns will continue this. Being around something makes you comfortable with it

Gun control advocates are engaged in a culture war

All the more reason to be seen as reasonable, real people that shop in the same stores, go to the same movies, attend the same churches. If the general public sees who we are it is less likely that we can be portrayed in the manner in which they would like to

If everyone knows you are armed, that means the bad guys know it too

True but most police stations are not targets. Bad guys like unarmed victims. Your chances of being a victim goes down if you they know you are armed, not up. If you are concealed you just another sheep in the bad guys eyes.

 

[Billy Shears]

2) Carrying openly unnecessarily alarms people.

Hiding our guns will continue this. Being around something makes you comfortable with it

Sorry, but no. If you think that someone who has minimal familiarity with firearms, and is made nervous by them, is going to have their fears allayed by seeing some guy in the local 7-11, or at the BP station with a pistol on his belt, you are dreaming.

It's time to be realistic here. Most people are not "gun guys." People who are "into" guns are a minority in society. People who carry on a regular basis are an even smaller portion of this minority, and people who carry openly are an even smaller percentage of that. Your chances of ever persuading enough people to carry openly to make it commonplace enough to cause most people to relax around guns is absolutely zero.

If everyone knows you are armed, that means the bad guys know it too

True but most police stations are not targets. Bad guys like unarmed victims. Your chances of being a victim goes down if you they know you are armed, not up. If you are concealed you just another sheep in the bad guys eyes.

Again, wrong. Police stations don't get targeted because they are filled with a small army of armed men. But individual officers can and do get targeted. We've had it happen right here on my department. We've lost more than one officer that way. And remember, most criminals are reluctant to shoot a cop because they are aware of the massive law enforcement manhunt that will ensue. No such deterrent operates on behalf of the armed citizen. Your chances of being a victim go down if the bad guys don't know whether or not you are armed, but think you might be. That's why the crime rate goes down once CCW laws get passed.

If the bad guy knows you're armed, and wants to kill you, he'll just make sure to get the drop on you. If he's determined to attack you, he'll make sure never to give you any chance to respond. You'll probably never know what hit you, like the unfortunate security guard about whom this article was written: http://privateofficernews.wordpress.com/2009/01/17/security-officer-shot-in-the-head-wwwprivateofficercom/

On the other hand, if you carry concealed, the creep won't know the threat you represent, and he won't know he needs to take such care against that threat. He may approach you thinking your are just an unarmed sheep, but since you aren't, you may just be able to turn the tables on him. If he knows you're armed, he'll never give you the chance to.

 

[kmbrman]

Open Carry

Open carry for whatever reason will always be feared by a certain number of the public. We have to recognize the potential danger in allowing all sorts of careless carrying as in poorly made holsters and etc. Only allowing retention types of holsters is a good idea. Someting like a Serpa holster, that insures that the weapon can't be seized by some nut or BG. while the person carrying ,is not watching. The anti's are just looking for some type of negligence on our part to put all over the TV.

 

[thorazine]

I'm really wondering...

What caliber does Steven Segal carry?

Next I just have to get the pony tail. =)

 

[9mmepiphany]

What caliber does Steven Segal carry?

...usually a .45 in a Tussey 1911

 

[tactikel]

I'm sure Mr Ayoob has carried everything from 9mm to .45 super (whatever caliber the manufacturer let him "evaluate"). He knows more about shooting/CCW than I ever will. I respect his opinion, but I still pack a .45 ACP.

I open carry a 20 ga shotgun 3-4 times a year; Its called hunting on public land, and everyone is polite, helpful, and friendly .
There was a time less than 100 years ago when one could walk into town with a .30-30 or a 12ga over their shoulder and not a head would turn,
when every gas station would sell ammo, and 10 cents would get you a handful of .22s. Those days are long gone

 

[2ndamd]

WOW!
I can not believe someone on the Highroad, just likend the open carry of a God given right, to the hate filled speech of the KKK. Really now? Come on people! Carrying a handgun in the open has the same vitriole of the some hate group's speech?

I can not disagree with your post more.

The 2ndamd gives us the right to bear arms. I would be proud to bear a handgun with open carry. Not for any agenda to influence, or teach, or show off to others. I would be proud to open carry because, we live in a free country and the open carry of one of those rights would be the epitome of American liberty.

You see, if some gay couple is holding hands while taking a walk in the park; does that mean they are doing it to flaunt their right to be love with whom they please? Not necessarily. They are merely enjoying each other's company.
The same would be true of me exercising my right to bear arms in the open. I just enjoy the company of my guns. I prefer the company of guns to most people to be honest. Well, most liberty hating people.

 

[2ndamd]

Back on topic,
I read an article by Mas where his back-up was a DAO SP101 in .357 mag.
But, I read he also uses a 442 customized by Teddy Jacobson @ Gunsite.
I also read that he has carried a Glock 22 with G27 for back-up.
You see, I think he carries quite a few different models at different times.

 

[Guillermo]

Your chances of ever persuading enough people to carry openly to make it commonplace enough to cause most people to relax around guns is absolutely zero.

Really? Amazing that guns are the ONLY thing that people are not more comfortable with exposure. Those gun thingies are pretty amazing in that they go against human nature

Your chances of being a victim go down if the bad guys don't know whether or not you are armed

Those pesky bad guys. When faced with an armed guy they go AGAINST all predatory nature and attack the strong. Wow...amazing that every other type of victim is better off appearing strong. Or maybe I should tell my RADS students to look as weak and meek as possible to avoid attack.

Guess those years of psychology were a waste of money. I think I am going to call to get a refund.

 

[searcher451]

Hate to point out the painfully obvious here, but ...

... the fourth post in this thread, from one of the moderators, suggested that the OP send a PM to the man in question and pose the question directly, seeing as how he's a High Road Forum member in good standing. We've gone on for three full pages in the meantime ... about what, exactly? Good grief, guys. If someone really wants to know or cares about this, send the PM and then post the answer.

 

[Guillermo]

We did kind of hijack.

I apologize

 

[threefeathers]

Why don't one of your guys who hijacked this thread do one discussing some of the questions that came up. Since I'm a beginner I don't feel comfortable doing that. I'm still scared of things that go boom.

 

[Billy Shears]

The 2ndamd gives us the right to bear arms. I would be proud to bear a handgun with open carry. Not for any agenda to influence, or teach, or show off to others. I would be proud to open carry because, we live in a free country and the open carry of one of those rights would be the epitome of American liberty.

And every person you alarm by doing so is a person more likely to decide that guns are dangerous and should be restricted, and vote accordingly. And many of those who are not actually alarmed will still roll their eyes at this Rambo wannabe they see before them, and then quietly pull the lever for the Democrat promising reenact the assault weapons ban at the next election because they don’t trust these people they see as paranoid rednecks. It’s like waving a red flag at a bull.

Most people, who have little to no experience with violent crime, and have never been a victim of it (and that’s a majority of the population), simply don’t feel the need to be armed, and seldom understand why others do. It’s just like any other terrible tragedy – people to whom it has never happened don’t really believe, deep down where it counts, that it could happen to them. It’s something you read about that happens to other people. Rightly or wrongly, that’s the common perception. So when they see you carrying around a gun, they don’t see you as a prudent individual harmlessly exercising your constitutional rights. You look like Tackleberry from the Police Academy movies. If they’re not alarmed by you, they find you faintly absurd. Why on earth you would want gun owners to be regarded in this light is beyond me. It doesn’t help us. Quite the contrary in fact.

Recently we had this issue come up here in Norfolk. In August of 2007 a citizen openly carried a gun at Norfolk’s annual Harborfest event, held by the city in Town Point Park, knowing that he would be asked to leave the park. He refused and was arrested. He meant to be. He was a member of an organization determined to challenge the city’s policy of not allowing weapons to be carried on city property. His conviction was overturned and he sued the city, and the city ended up having to pay him $15,000 in the settlement.

It was a pyrrhic victory though. If you read the letters that got printed in the opinion section of the local paper afterward, you can see that the public reaction to this was negative. People thought he was an idiot, or a nut, or in some cases even a menace. And it doesn’t really matter, as far as that perception goes, that he was completely within his rights, innocent of any intent to do the slightest harm, and completely law abiding. The public still, for the most part, saw him negatively. And since this is so, how do you think those people will be more likely to vote next time a gun control bill comes up?

Rights can be infringed. It happens all the time. It’s hard enough defending our gun rights as it is. Alarming non-gun enthusiasts, or causing them to regard us with amusement or contempt will only make it harder.

If you want to carry, by all means exercise your right to do so. But the smart way to do it is with a concealed weapons permit. If it were only possible to carry openly, I’d be all for it then. But since you can carry concealed just as easily, and it’s more advantageous in almost every respect, why not do that?

Really? Amazing that guns are the ONLY thing that people are not more comfortable with exposure. Those gun thingies are pretty amazing in that they go against human nature

You’re missing the point by a country mile. Sure, it’s absolutely true that if enough people carried, that weapons were commonplace in society, people would become more nonchalant about them and feel less threatened by them. I don’t doubt that for an instant. The point is that there will NEVER be a time in our society where there are enough people walking around armed to make that happen. Once again: gun enthusiasts are a minority in society, and people who carry are an even smaller segment of that minority, and the number of people wanting to carry openly are a smaller portion still of that portion of that minority. Given this, there will never be more than a tiny fraction of the civilian population walking around with guns openly worn on their hips. And since this is so, the idea that you can make people more comfortably by openly carrying one is a pipe dream. The average person (outside of some rural areas where guns are more common) will, maybe, see one person every several years – if that often – with a gun and no badge to go with it. And because this is uncommon, and will ALWAYS remain uncommon, they will far more likely be alarmed by it than reassured.

Look guy, I’m not talking out of my @$$ here, I’m a cop, and I’ve been dispatched on more than one of these “person with a weapon” calls. I know beyond any shred of doubt what effect the sight of a gun in the hands of a civilian in a modern American city has on people. This is NOT speculation. I’m speaking from experience.

Those pesky bad guys. When faced with an armed guy they go AGAINST all predatory nature and attack the strong. Wow...amazing that every other type of victim is better off appearing strong. Or maybe I should tell my RADS students to look as weak and meek as possible to avoid attack.

Then explain why cops get ambushed and shot if criminals are universally afraid of armed men. Explain how that armed security officer in the article I cited was killed if criminals can be depended upon to shy away from an armed man.

Once again, I am not speculating, and I am not getting all my knowledge from books or from television. I have worked real crime scenes, and stood over real dead bodies. Some of those victims were armed, and it turned out that it was known by their murderers that they were armed. It didn’t stop the murder from taking place. If I want to kill you, and I know you’re carrying a gun, I’ll still kill you. I’ll just sneak up behind you and shoot you in the back of the head, and you’ll never know what hit you.

Sure being openly armed will deter some attacks. Absolutely it will. I don’t dispute it for a minute. But carrying yourself alertly, being aware of your surroundings and what people around you are doing, listening to that inner voice when it warns you something isn’t right, and staying out of bad areas will be a hundred times more effective at keeping you out of the crime statistics than carrying a gun openly will. And you can still carry concealed (in case trouble still finds you anyway, which it sometimes does) while doing it without ANY of the negative effects I enumerated in my first post on this thread (most of which you completely failed to address). There is no 100% solution, but on the balance, concealed carry will be far better all around than open carry, and as I said, if you can even legally buy a gun in the first place, you can almost certainly get a CCW permit, so why not just do that? You get all the benefits, and none of the risks.

 

[Kind of Blued]

Usually Mr. Ayoob will stop by around page two or three and step over all of the rotting carcases of semi-dead rumors to answer the question.

I probably would have given up on this one by now though.

I've read that he carries lots of different guns, often whatever he is testing at the moment. His job (partly) is to review defensive handguns a.k.a. "carry guns". How is he supposed to review a carry gun if he doesn't carry it?

 

[johnnylaw53]

what Billy Shears said

be safe

 

[Borch]

Billy Shears hit the nail squarely on the head.

 

[noskilz]

Why don't one of your guys who hijacked this thread do one discussing some of the questions that came up. Since I'm a beginner I don't feel comfortable doing that. I'm still scared of things that go boom.

Now THAT is funny stuff!

 

[noskilz]

What Billy Shears said too.

It seems that the most rational reason for civilian "open carry" is to prevent the unjust prosecution of the carrying concealed if one's weapon becomes inadvertently visible, or unconcealed. Since we no longer seem to live in a society where common sense has any place, I reckon we are left to fighting it out over the extreme versions of civility.

 

[2ndamd]

I was a cop for years too.
And I don't recall ever freaking out over the sight of a gun.
But Mas likend the mere visability of a holstered gun to bugery (sodomy).

I disagree with him and I disagree with your post entirely.

People have the right to do their thing in the privacy of their own home. But, the 2ndamd trumps other people's disgust at my right to carry an arm......IMHO.

But I see I will not get through to many of you. Sad days in America right now.

 

[L-Frame]

Boy has this thread been hijacked. But, that being said, I agree with Billy Shears and would never carry in the open. I look at it from a scumbag's perspective and 1) if I'm going to rob someplace I'm either shooting the guy with the gun or taking it from him at gunpoint first, 2) if I see him carrying open late at night and I really want a gun I'll walk by, say hi, turn around and split his skull and take it. I think you lose many advantages with open carry. And, I think it's a joke when I hear people say that it would never happen to them because they can always spot a bad guy. Nonsense.