What can you guys tell me about this H&A Damscus SxS?

[DustyGmt]

My good buddy just picked this up on an impulse buy and was given the impression from the seller he could use it as a regular shooter with no worries, the seller knowing full well he was only ever likely to fire the most common factory 12ga loads through it, he was looking for a "shooter" and does not reload or anything like that and when I told him he needed to use care in shooting that old 19th-early 20th century's Damascus, he was ready to back peddle and wished he never bought it. He wants to get the $500 he's got into it and send it off to someone who will appreciate it for what it is, but my friend doesn't reload so he is ready to catch and release this.

Any advice guys? I'm just as lost as my buddy to be honest, is this something he should hang onto as a collector piece or? Are there safe and mild loads he could use that wouldn't jeopardize the integrity of the weapon that you guys might share. I bet it would be a hot ticket among the CAS crowd......

 

[PapaG]

I will get pushback but my advice is don't shoot it with modern shells. If it were mine, I'd have the barrels magnafluxed and if sound, load black powder shells for it. Or, slip in my pair of "410er" tubes and shoot 410 shells.

 

[jmr40]

I have an old 20 ga shotgun that belonged to my great grandfather with Damascus barrels. I used that gun quite a bit in the 1970's with no problems. But that was before I was aware of the danger of shooting Damascus barrels. He could have a gunsmith check the barrels and get a better idea, but I haven't shot grand dads' gun since about 1977 and don't plan to.

I'd love for my kids and grandkids to be able to at least fire a couple of rounds though it to say they had used the same gun as their great grandfather, great-great grandfather and great, great, great grandfather who was a child during the Civil War. But to me the reward isn't worth the risk. Especially for a gun with that much family history.

I have no idea what that gun is worth. They made a bunch of what were referred to as Hardware store guns back in the day. Many were made by the same company, and they'd put any name on it you wanted. They weren't fancy, just functional guns.

 

[theotherwaldo]

Frankly, I'd put together a few black powder shells and try them out.
-Then again, I have some steel shells that take regular black powder caps.
Makes it a lot easier... .

 

[Mizar]

If it's in sound condition (checked by a competent gunsmith), there are no worries shooting it with moderate smokeless loads - the Brits have no problems reproofing & shooting Damascus shotguns, BTW. Just check the chambers, as they very well might be shorter, like 2 1/2" - they can be reamed to 2 3/4", but using 2 3/4" shells in short chambers is really not advisable at all. Just bear in mind that back in the days 2 1/2" & 2 3/4" shotguns were proofed at lower pressures than the 3" ones, not like today's SAAMI standards where they are tested to equal pressures.

 

[unspellable]

Will magnafluxing prove anything? Magnafluxing detects discontinuities in the metal and a "Damascus" barrel is the definition of discontinuous.
Given that it is in sound condition and using loads appropriate for the gun it will be safe to shoot. 2-1/2 inch "nitro for black" loads can be had.

 

[.38 Special]

I'd inspect the gun for pits and dents, both of which can be more serious in Damascus steel. And as @Mizar notes, I'd be sure of the chambering as well. Then I'd load up either blackpowder shells or mild smokeless and fire both barrels remotely. If all tests are passed, I'd use the gun with confidence.

Disclaimer: I'm no shotgunner. The above has been my practice with Damascus rifle barrels for several decades, and so far I have not blown anything up.

 

[Mizar]

Just a food for thought - in the UK, the government approved proof houses have no problems at all to reproof older Damascus shotguns (with only black powder proof marks) to modern pressure levels (modern smokeless shells) if one wants to use his old shotgun for hunting/shooting. Of course, not to the same pressure levels as the 3" Magnum shells as SAAMI pushed in use a couple of decades ago, but to the older (lower) standards for 2 3/4" (2 1/2") shells that are still valid in Europe and some modern shotguns are still built for those lower pressures.

 

[Jim Watson]

I wonder how many of those old guns fail nitro proof. I gather that just isn't an inquiry one makes, old chap.

 

[unspellable]

Double Gun Journal carried a series in which attempts were made to blow old "Damascus" guns with modern nitro PROOF loads. Some of these were "wall hangers". None let go. At worst. some of the looser ones got a bit looser. Forensic analysis of already blown guns showed that it was generally due to a barrel obstruction.

 

[Jim Watson]

Yes and the same guy also demonstrated that a 2 3/4" shell in a 2 1/2" chamber wasn't going to wreck the gun, either.
That still seems to generate as many if not more warnings than Nitro Damascus.

 

[Mizar]

3" shells in 2 3/4" chambers also will not wreck a shotgun, but sure it isn't healthy either - as witnessed by yours truly, while he tried to explain to the angry customer why his new double barrel became loose too soon...

 

[MacAR]

I shot an old LC Smith 2 7/8" Damascus 10 gauge for a long time, with some (albeit very old) Western factory loads. It never let go on me, but I let it go when the large stock of paper shells I had for it ran out. I would say that in this case, you might have it checked out as others have said and if everything's good to go, shoot it with some lower-powered shells. I'm sure the gun would handle 3 3/4 dram, 1 1/4oz loads just fine, but no need to beat the old girl up. That's a very nice gun, by the way.

Mac

 

[unspellable]

The dram equivalent rating pertains to velocity and has no bearing on pressure. For these black powder era guns either black powder or nitro for black loads should be used.
Also, pressures is not the be all, end all. I have an Ithaca Flues 28 gauge that is nitro rated. It is restricted to 3/4 oz. loads, 1 oz. loads produce enough recoil to be hazardous to the stock wrist.

 

[Rlafever]

https://www.midwayusa.com/larrys-short-stories/damascus-barrels-rumors-and-facts/183 ...Some people shoot their old Damascus barrel shot guns
tangentially , if you haven' hunted with a double trigger side x side ,there is a learned technique for reaching both triggers or my middle finger reaches the front trigger better. RST makes low pressure shells for old doubles , there may be others