MicroBalrog
member
Israel has no Libertarian party. At all. Whatsoever.:banghead:
What country other then the US has the most Freedom?
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telomerase
Member
>Israel has no Libertarian party. At all. Whatsoever.
Costa Rica wouldn't have one either if their politicians got billions of US aid every year. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with Israelis. (Herzl really should have taken the Madagascar offer...)
Costa Rica wouldn't have one either if their politicians got billions of US aid every year. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with Israelis. (Herzl really should have taken the Madagascar offer...)
Cooter Brown
Member
Huh???
What kind of a silly discussion is this?
In the history of the world, there has never been a place as free or as great as the rural USA.
Period.
What kind of a silly discussion is this?
In the history of the world, there has never been a place as free or as great as the rural USA.
Period.
telomerase
Member
>In the history of the world, there has never been a place as free or as great as the rural USA.
...Of 1967. However, Americans are steadily losing rights while other countries' citizens reclaim theirs. I think it makes sense to keep an eye on foreign countries... if only to point out to our fellow Americans which policies work and which don't.
...Of 1967. However, Americans are steadily losing rights while other countries' citizens reclaim theirs. I think it makes sense to keep an eye on foreign countries... if only to point out to our fellow Americans which policies work and which don't.
Old Pa
Member
What about withholding foreign aid from countries with confiscatory gun laws? Make the next step in global democratization begun under Ronaldus Magnus the recognition of the right to self defense as a requisite for receiving our tax dollars? Take another step towards putting our personal rights in the Bill of Rights on a par with each other and as part of our foreign policy?
MicroBalrog
member
Old Pa: YES!!!
dustind
Member
what about Norway or Sweden I think those are pretty free countries, guns and otherwise.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Sweden is highly socialized, some of the highest rates of taxation in the 'civilized' world.
How about Romania, or other formerly Communist nations? I would suspect that most of the people in such nations would be incredibly suspicious of statists.
How about Romania, or other formerly Communist nations? I would suspect that most of the people in such nations would be incredibly suspicious of statists.
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
Except for CCW, it sounds as if Finland has some pretty good laws. I think they can get NFA weapons that we can't here in the US. At least not without paying an arm and a leg.
PrudentGT
Member
I've always dreamed of retiring to a little place with a small vinyard in Ticino. Just get a company to sponsor a work permit, work there for 12 years, and viola'! Swiss citizen. Easy as pie, right? 
mattd
Member
I've read some swiss gun laws and they are way worst than here.
gunsmith
member
M.Tyson said
If you mean oakland CA it's right across the bridge from me,or maybe you mean Washington D.C?
If you mean oakland CA it's right across the bridge from me,or maybe you mean Washington D.C?
Partisan Ranger
Member
I have to say, living in Russia did open my eyes. See, you can reach a point in a society where there are so MANY freaking laws, no one obeys much of anything. Living there was kinda cool, because just about anything was possible, if you had the cash to pay the mafia to get it done.
I also liked being able to drink a beer on the street with my friends, light a campfire in ANY forest anywhere, and fish without a license.
A lack of rule of law does have its pluses, but of course living in America is much better.
I also liked being able to drink a beer on the street with my friends, light a campfire in ANY forest anywhere, and fish without a license.
A lack of rule of law does have its pluses, but of course living in America is much better.
ShaiVong
Member
We had a honduran working for us, and he alluded that just about everybody had an AK47, and that the ammo was dirt cheap. And I do mean dirt cheap. Something along the lines of $20 / several hundred rounds.
That and talk of people loosing arms in drunken machete fights.
That and talk of people loosing arms in drunken machete fights.
Cooter Brown
Member
So long, adios...
hey, don't you guys let the door knob hit you in the arse on the way out of the USA.......
hey, don't you guys let the door knob hit you in the arse on the way out of the USA.......
2nd Amendment
member
The big question isn't really how much freedom other nations have relative to the US. We're stil No. 1, but being the best of a bad lot isn't much of an accomplishment. The questions should be how much freedom have we lost? How far have we slid from where we were and should be? And where are we going to wind up?
Sometime in the not to distant future, when private firearms ownership is banned, tax rates run 90% and private property is virtually unheard of in the rest of the developed world will we be bragging about our 80% tax rate, ability to still own single shots and private land...if we can afford the property taxes? After all, we'll still be No 1...
Sometime in the not to distant future, when private firearms ownership is banned, tax rates run 90% and private property is virtually unheard of in the rest of the developed world will we be bragging about our 80% tax rate, ability to still own single shots and private land...if we can afford the property taxes? After all, we'll still be No 1...
Mark Tyson
Member
Temptation, temptation . . .
I better not go overseas anymore. I may never make it back through customs . . .
I better not go overseas anymore. I may never make it back through customs . . .
T.Stahl
Member
RM,
I can buy all the magazines I want. Give me 500€ and I'll have a Beta-C for SL8 before the end of next week. I have a Bubits stock for my Glock that cost me ~80€, no silly tax involved to make it legal. But that's it.
I have to proove a "need" for almost any gun that I want to buy. I'm not allowed to shoot at human silhouettes or practise defensive shooting. I'm not allowed to use aforementioned Beta-C (or any other mag holding more than ten rounds) in my SL8.
Actually, gunwise I'd be much better off as a legal alien in Tennessee than as a German citizen in Germany.
I can buy all the magazines I want. Give me 500€ and I'll have a Beta-C for SL8 before the end of next week. I have a Bubits stock for my Glock that cost me ~80€, no silly tax involved to make it legal. But that's it.
I have to proove a "need" for almost any gun that I want to buy. I'm not allowed to shoot at human silhouettes or practise defensive shooting. I'm not allowed to use aforementioned Beta-C (or any other mag holding more than ten rounds) in my SL8.
Actually, gunwise I'd be much better off as a legal alien in Tennessee than as a German citizen in Germany.
igor
Member
Finland is good as has been said, but it's a game of give and take. Most of the below is similar in Sweden - they have possibility to CCW and they draft less. The Norwegians draft even less, fill me in on the CCW? Both tend to place yet a bit higher in the standard-of-living stats.
But Finland: no RKBA, must demonstrate need. Firearms registration obviously covers everything that shoots gunpowder-propelled projectiles (+ OC and other tear gas devices). No CCW.
Gun permit 27€ - if you apply for several at a time, you get a couple € discount for subsequent permits. No magazine restrictions, no suppressor or bayonet restrictions, no restrictions based on appearance. Full auto possible with registration as collector - must jump through hoops, but it's possible. During your obligatory conscript military year you'll get trigger time with fine milled-receiver Sako/Valmet M62's and whatnot. The Finnish language is entirely unintelligible to all but Estonians. Swedish/Norwegian/Danish is possible for Westerners to learn and one can cope either in English or Swedish in Finland.
The ancient Scandinavian law of Everyman's Right guarantees access to land and water, public and private, if you behave. Hunting (small game) and fishing permits cheap and available. Big game (elk, deer) - you need admission to the local hunter society, impossible to get in outside direct bloodline to current members.
Taxation is high, in return health insurance from cradle to grave, public pension when 65, excellent and entirely free education as much as you can consume, very good unemployment safety net. Standard of living is very high, constantly in World Top Ten. Democracy works from local to state level, corruption is zero. Police very well trained and democratically controlled. Violent crime is predictable and mostly happens within isolated subcultures. No need to CCW.
This is Freedom as we see it - obviously YMMV .
But Finland: no RKBA, must demonstrate need. Firearms registration obviously covers everything that shoots gunpowder-propelled projectiles (+ OC and other tear gas devices). No CCW.
Gun permit 27€ - if you apply for several at a time, you get a couple € discount for subsequent permits. No magazine restrictions, no suppressor or bayonet restrictions, no restrictions based on appearance. Full auto possible with registration as collector - must jump through hoops, but it's possible. During your obligatory conscript military year you'll get trigger time with fine milled-receiver Sako/Valmet M62's and whatnot. The Finnish language is entirely unintelligible to all but Estonians. Swedish/Norwegian/Danish is possible for Westerners to learn and one can cope either in English or Swedish in Finland.
The ancient Scandinavian law of Everyman's Right guarantees access to land and water, public and private, if you behave. Hunting (small game) and fishing permits cheap and available. Big game (elk, deer) - you need admission to the local hunter society, impossible to get in outside direct bloodline to current members.
Taxation is high, in return health insurance from cradle to grave, public pension when 65, excellent and entirely free education as much as you can consume, very good unemployment safety net. Standard of living is very high, constantly in World Top Ten. Democracy works from local to state level, corruption is zero. Police very well trained and democratically controlled. Violent crime is predictable and mostly happens within isolated subcultures. No need to CCW.
This is Freedom as we see it - obviously YMMV
.Kobun
Member
Have to show a need in Norway too.
Guns are licensed, no CCW.
If you are active, you can own quite a few guns.
Standard of living is supposed to be high. We have a surplus of $80 Billion, but our roads suck.
Guns are licensed, no CCW.
If you are active, you can own quite a few guns.
Standard of living is supposed to be high. We have a surplus of $80 Billion, but our roads suck.
T.Stahl
Member
But I bet you have much less traffic jams than we do.
igor
Member
Hey Kobun, our roads suck with a lot less budget surplus!
But compared to Stautobahn, it still is easy... ought to be as well since we only have 5 million people in an area as big as West Germany used to be.
It's not too crowded there in Norway either, it's just that you waste your good space on all those mountains . All level bits of land are made into soccer fields... so where could you put a road?
The Scandinavian countries take a number of political refugees every year...
But compared to Stautobahn, it still is easy... ought to be as well since we only have 5 million people in an area as big as West Germany used to be.
It's not too crowded there in Norway either, it's just that you waste your good space on all those mountains
. All level bits of land are made into soccer fields... so where could you put a road? The Scandinavian countries take a number of political refugees every year...
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