what do i need to know about 1911s?

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Dimis

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im looking into getting my first 1911 and want to know what to look for
it will be a self defence firearm and see alot of rounds through it as i practice alot
i dont PLAN on carrying it but it may happen if i find it comfortable and concealable on my body
i know i want a full size model nothing short untill i get used to the 5 inch model
i am pretty sure i want steel but maybe you guys know better what are my options?

can anybody tell me what i need to look for or point me to a spot that has DETAILED information? (please dont send me to that dreadful "so your getting your first 1911 site" its not as informing as the auther would think)

thanks in advance
 
Depends on your price range. Low end $400-$500 Rock Island Tactical, $700-$800 Springfield Loaded, $1500 and above Les Baer would be my first choice because I have 2 and like them.
 
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If you're not going to carry it daily, don't worry about getting a light weight frame. The lighter the gun, the more the recoil.

You'll find that your options vary greatly depending on what you will use the gun for the most (range, home defense, concealed carry)...weight, size, caliber, sights...

Sounds like you're talking about primarily using it at the range and then having it for home defense.

You'll want adjustable sights for the range. I have tritium night sights on mine and they're great in low light...but they're not adjustable which is agrevating to me.
 
The price range is the biggie in this question.

$500 - Rock Island Tactical
$750 - Springer Loaded
$1000 - Dan Wesson, Colt
$1500+ - Ed Brown, Wilson, Les Baer, Nighthawk, etc.

Good magazines are absolutely necessary. Probably 90% of the troubles I've seen revolve around cheap mags. Wilson, Tripp, and Chip McCormick all work.

It's cheaper to buy the gun with features you want than buy a base model and add stuff.

If you buy a $400 Rock Island and throw $400 of stuff in it - you DO NOT have an $800 gun. You have a $400 gun you sunk a lot of money into.

^^^ Very Important Rule!

A local fella I know did just this and was very frustrated when he couldn't get $1000 for the $400 Rock Island he sunk another $600 into. We all tried to explain it but he just refused to listen - and no, he hasn't sold it...
 
all about 1911s...

first of all, the gun is very simple to upgrade. but why do it if you can get one with all the cool stuff for around $425. the metro arms 1911, from the phillipines, has gotten nothing but great reviews. it has the grips, sights, extended controls and panache of guns costing 3-4 times as much. get one, get proficient and then you will know what you want in a higher-priced gun. i carry a 1911 in .38 super, with an alloy frame. i have 10+1 firepower in a package that is very comfortable to carry. for me, the alloy frame is the way to go. if i were to buy a production gun with an alloy frame, i would buy the taurus 1911. you see, there are many ways to skin this cat. just don't buy the flavor of the week, be patient and do some research.--robby
 
First off - BUY ENOUGH GUN. As NGIB told you above a $400 gun with $600 worth of stuff added is still a $400 gun to the 1911 market.

Save your $$ and get a quality base to work from even if you have to buy used.

For my money (in decreasing order of costs):

Les Baer/Ed Brown/Wilson/Dan Wesson/Colt/SIG (different but don't knock it until you've tried it)/S&W/S.A.

I don't have any warm feeling for Kimber, and cannot stand Taurus (personal experience). RIA Tacticals are reported to be good guns for the price.

You have lots of choices in the 1911 market.

RMD
 
I like a nice basic gun, without a lot of bells and whistles.

One of my regular carry guns is a full size Norinco M1911.

Before I was laid off in February, I was looking at nickeled RIA M1911s in .38 Super. I've already got three M1911s in .45acp (Colt, Springfield and Norinco) plus a Colt converted to .38 Special by Giles. When I get back to work, I'll probably get that .38 Super.
 
The most important thing to know about 1911's is while they are IMO the best looking pistol ever designed, the design is outdated and unreliable when compared to modern polymer designs i.e. M&P, SA XD, Glock.
 
the design is outdated and unreliable when compared to modern polymer designs i.e. M&P, SA XD, Glock.
Click to expand...

I'm wouldn't call it unreliable. More maintenance intensive, yes, but 1911s are not inherently unreliable.
 
To sohcgt2: next time I'm in Atlanta you're welcome to see how "unreliable" mine are. I see this said a lot and for the life of me I don't know why. Maybe kitchen table gunsmithing and cheap mags...
 
For nostalgia reasons, I'm saving up until I can buy a Colt. Every other gun may be as good or better, but when the .45 ACP round bears the "Colt Automatic Pistol" I'd just like to have that one. Since Colt first designed the gun, I can't see myself going wrong with buying their 1911. This may make my opinion invalid except for the nostalgic buyer.
 
Get a Colt! It will hold its value better then the others, it has better internal parts (very little MIM parts), is the preferred base gun for any custom build, and is made in the good old USA! You will not get a better 1911 unless you go for a custom gun at custom prices!
 
thanks guys but its not a price question
i want to know about features to look for BEFORE i set a budget

things like aluminum vs. steel frame
types of frame construction (forged milled etc.)
bull barrels without bushings
you know the basic ins and outs of the options available and how they will be needed or not for me to use as a HD/Range gun
it may even see some competition in its life
and of course possably some carry


as for everyone else thanks for the advice

to the unreliable compaired to glocks etc etc yea unreliable for nearly 100 years now and still outselling the tupperware

and lastly to Cchris hope you get to that colt i too would love to have an original just for the sake of having a piece of history but remember John Moses Browning designed it not Colt


so now that were back on track what can be done to the 1911?Pros/Cons?
and what can it be made of?Pros/Cons?
how can it be made (forged etc..)?Pros/Cons?

think of this as a break down for the "Why?" to the 30 LPI checkering on the mainspring houseing and just run with it give me a list of your must haves on a 1911 and why these options are there and what they actualy do to make the gun better
 
If I had the money, I'd buy a Les Baer, if not, I'd buy a standard Colt. My first 1911 I got a year ago, it is a Colt Gold Cup Trophy in SS. Only thing I am upgrading are the sights, I've already bought them, they are the same stock ones, but with tritium inserts.

Just dont buy a Kimber :)
 
For a first 1911, I would make a great effort to avoid the following features.
- ambidextrous safety, unless you are a lefty
-- frequent problems with the right side safety especially with the lower priced pistols.
- full length guide rod
-- complicates field stripping
- GI style/sized sights
-- practically useless unless you are a collector or have perfect 20/20 vision

I would look for the following features.
- Standard bushing
-- It is the standard design and probably most reliable. It also has most after market parts and reference materials geared toward that design
- All steel pistol
-- Aluminum is nice for carry, but has practically no advantage over the all steel gun for home defense and range use.

I would make sure I knew what firing pin safety system it has, if any. You may not want one, or if you do, it's good to know what you are getting. Some pistols don't have a firing pin safety and are often called Series 70, though that is a Colt trademark and actually had other features not found in current production pistols. Springfield doesn't use a firing pin safety, but they do use a titanium firing pin, of different dimensions I believe, to help prevent accidental discharges.

For pistols with a firing pin safety, most companies use what is called the Colt series 80 system that is deactivated when the trigger is pulled. Kimber and S&W use systems deactivated when the grip safety is depressed. Is one better than the other? I don't really know, but they are different. It is good to know what you are getting before you buy.

For finishes, any colored (parkerized, blued, "super coat") pistol will typically show more wear than a stainless pistol, but I like the look of a worn blue pistol.

I would handle as many as you can, and see what feels good in your hand. It is amazing how different 1911's can feel depending on what you would ordinarily call minor trim features such as, arched vs flat mainspring housing, front strap smooth/checkered/high cut, grip safety beavertail/GI, thumb safety extended/teardrop/GI, grips standard/wraparound/slim, etc. Of course you can change them all out, but it will take more time and money.

I got into 1911's not quite 20 years ago. With all the hype around certain features at the time such as beavertail grip safeties, I wouldn't even handle a pistol with the GI grip safety or arched mainspring housing. Lately, I've found the GI grip safety, and arched housing really locks my hand in place just where I want it.

My number one recommendation after you get your 1911 is to really study the procedure for reinstalling the slide stop after disassembly. The most common mistake by the new 1911 owner is the famous "idiot scratch" on the frame when reinstalling the slide stop. It is easily avoided, you just need to know what you are doing.
 
thanks JTQ thats pretty good information
ive handled a few 1911s and fired a few as well
a buddy has the Springfield GI model and thats one ive fired a good deal
i do like his gun its just too basic for me (not that thats bad) but i was looking into more options and i guess im confusing myself because of the vast amount of options even offered
 
Guns with a one-piece full-length guide rod are not really any more difficult to strip that those with the G.I. recoil setup. You can't really push the reverse plug in with your hand, but you can use the base of a magazine. From their, takedown is basically identical.

This applies to some Colts, Kimbers, and Smith & Wessons.

The two-piece guiderod on the Springfield guns is a different beast entirely and requires a hex wrench or takedown. I would avoid this.

The Series 80 firing pin safety is operated off the trigger (similarly to almost all modern autoloaders) and is very reliable. It does, maybe, affect the trigger pull a little bit. The Swartz safety actuated by depressing the grip safety and has two potential problems; 1) the piece that actually depresses the plunger is easily broken if the grip safety is depressed while installing the slide or if the reciever is upside down when installing the slide and 2) it is possible that the grip safety may be depressed far enough to release the hammer but not far enough to unblock the firing pin. Both Kimber and Smith & Wesson use this safety system.

In the end, I would recommend a gun either with a Series 80 safety system of a Series 70 system with no firing fin safety, a one-piece guide rod, and no internal lawyer lock. In terms of reasonably priced guns, I think this narrows it down to Colt, Dan Wesson, or the SIG GSR series. I bought a Colt.
 
Let's talk a little about the myths that 1911s, especially tight guns like a Les Baer, are unreliable or necessarily finicky or need special care or don’t work if they’re dirty. The other day I decided to go out to the range with the second Les Baer I bought, a Concept IV.

IMG_4048E1X.jpg

I bought the gun about 8 or 9 years ago, a year or so after I bought my first, a Premier II. I used the gun on occasion for IPSC – to give the PII some rest. Then when I went to Gunsite about five years ago, I decided to use take the CIV. (For IPSC, I had it set up with an S&A magazine well, an extended magazine release and a tungsten guide rod. Before going to Gunsite, I restored it to its original configuration, and trained with it that way for a while to prepare.) All in all, I’d estimate that it’s had about 12,000 to 15,000 rounds through it. (No, I don’t keep detailed records.)

And now back to our story.

So about six weeks ago, I decided to take the CIV to the range. Shot about 200 rounds and came home – put it in the safe. (And no, I’m not always diligent about cleaning my guns.) Then about ten days later, I had time to go to the range for some pistol shooting and took the CIV – since it was already dirty. I ran a bore snake down its gullet a few time, stripped it, wiped what I could reach easily, and put a few drops of Gun Butter here and there. Shot another 200 rounds – came home and put it in the safe.

I took myself to the range again a few days later; and yup – took the CIV out again since it was dirty anyway. That trip I didn’t even do a once over – just shot another 200 rounds and back to the safe it went.

Well a few days ago a last minute change in plans left me with some time on my hands – so off to the range. I grabbed the CIV – no time to clean it – packed up and off to the range again with a very dirty gun. Now I put another 250 rounds through it – quick 2 and three round strings heating the gun up nicely.

So I’ve fired some 850 rounds with this tight Les Baer that has only has a casual cleaning after the first 200. Guess how many malfunctions I had with this filthy Les Baer. The answer of course is zero, zip, nada, gar keine, rien, etc. The dirty Baer ran absolutely flawlessly, and displayed its customary, first rate accuracy as well.

That's just one example. I have quite a number of 1911s (probably more than my cosmic allotment), and only a couple of them (no longer in my possession) ever gave me any trouble.
 
M1911 owners have to be very conscious of the quality of the magazines. If you should buy a lower priced gun, put the mags that come with the firearm in storage for World War Four and buy as many Wilson mags as you can afford.
 
To sohcgt2: next time I'm in Atlanta you're welcome to see how "unreliable" mine are. I see this said a lot and for the life of me I don't know why. Maybe kitchen table gunsmithing and cheap mags...
Click to expand...


I am always willing to spend time at the range, and if I can learn something new, then thats even better. Until then, I maintain that 1911's can be reliable or accurate, but without stopping to maintain them at short intervals I don't recall ever seeing one that was both.
 
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