What does a yellowy tint on bottom of a Lead ingot indicate?

It's gold. (just kidding)

The advice for zinc separation given above is spot on. If you can start your melt low, it will separate if zinc. It will look like oatmeal and slushy ice chips and you can drag all that out of your melt and then the remaining lead alloy will look like a mirror.
 
tightgroup tiger said:
Will zinc mixed with lead, when cast into bullets, lead up your barrel?
Click to expand...
Not anymore so than a similar lead bullet.

The easiest answer is to cast some bullets with it and see what happens. It's an unknown alloy to begin with so as long as the bullets get good fill out and weight within a reasonable range there's not much else you can do unless you have access to someone that can scan it with an XRF analyzer and get the exact content.
 
tightgroup tiger said:
I wasn't going to mention this because it's a real reach, but it also depends where the lead ingots came from. I started typing it twice then eraced it. Did someone give the ingots to you or did you melt them down yourself from wheel weights?"

The only other thing I can think of is Arsenic. It was added to shot to make it hard and strong, and added to industrial bearing lead for the same reason.
Wheel weights don't have Arsenic in them that I ever heard of.

I can't imagine those lead ingots have that much Arsenic in them to turn them yellow orange, but I have heard of it before from an old railroad mechanic that used to re-pour the axle bearings in freight cars when they were worn out. He used Arsenic to strengthen the lead. He said his pot would turn a yellowy orange from the Arsenic at times.
A little bit goes a long way with this stuff.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenic scroll down to "other uses"
Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenic#History

From "Physical Characteristics" from the Wiki article, "The three most common arsenic allotropes are grey, yellow, and black arsenic, with grey being the most common.[15]"

Stay up wind of it and don't lick your fingers after handling the stuff, just in case.
Click to expand...
Your assertion was a way better option than my thought. I initially thought sulfer and the response was where does that come from. Then the nightmare hit me.... recycling batteries
 
In my experience, if there is so much zinc that it affects the quality of the bullets, then none of the common tricks work very well. The "proper" way to get read of zinc from molten lead is apparently too hazardous for the home caster to try.

But my experience also has been that a little bit of zinc can be lived with. As others have pointed out, the OP might be well advised to simply melt some of those ingots and see how they pour. If the bullets are well filled out and weigh approximately what they should, then there is nothing to worry about.

Personally, I have been finding that alloy sources - especially "smelted wheel weights" offered online - have become decreasingly reliable over the past couple of decades. I'm now at the point where I have essentially given up on such things and now buy exclusively from big suppliers like Rotometals. The price tag is painful - especially compared to the buckets of free stuff we once could have for the asking - but it's a luxury to load up the pot and not wonder what you're going to end up with.
 
JimGnitecki said:
For me, sure I hate to lose the 12 lb, but losing them is better than inhaling suplfur fumes
Click to expand...

No help about the yellow color. I would suggest melting them down outside in the open air and staying upwind while doing it. That is what I have always done. In the past I did quite a bit of work with #4 babbit and even though most of it was brand new that was my procedure. My heat source was a #12 rosebud using oxygen and acetylene so melt time was very short. I still have the equipment but since I only melt a few pounds of scrap lead at a time and am in no hurry I use a Coleman one burner gas stove for a heat source. Slower but much less expensive for fuel.
 
I'm with the others that are suggesting casting with it and seeing how it does. It may cast ok but if not you might consider adding a little at a time to some other alloy that does cast well. In other words, dilute it down to the point that it will work.

I sort weights because I want "zero" Zinc in my mix but a few percent won't ruin a batch.
 
It looks like lead that has been overheated to me. It turns a straw color and then purples and blues as it overheats. It can retain color like that if it was poured when overheated. If it was zinc contaminated it'd be lumpy looking in ingot form.

The lead I've seen that was close to pure exhibited colors like that, but rarely if ever wheel weight or similar alloys.

I'd wager, soft lead, no zinc, and perfectly fine for use.
 
Thanks for all the replies, guys. I am also waiting for my friend to get back to me on the history of these ingots, after he talks to the buddy who cast them.

Jim G
 
Jim: re Lee Postell bullet mold.
I only shot them through a NEF Single shot break action. They weren’t stable at any velocity. The twist rate wasn’t adequate to stabilize such a long projectile.
They were too long to allow them (besides too pointed) for my Marlin 1895 to cycle or fire.
I suggest that the rate of twist in your barrel might be a tad slow. Also, your sample size is too small affecting your perception of actual precision.
Shoot them some more at shorter distances to confirm your results.
Also, you may need to speed them up a bit.
Going transonic may affect stability.
 
GooseGestapo said:
Jim: re Lee Postell bullet mold.
I only shot them through a NEF Single shot break action. They weren’t stable at any velocity. The twist rate wasn’t adequate to stabilize such a long projectile.
They were too long to allow them (besides too pointed) for my Marlin 1895 to cycle or fire.
I suggest that the rate of twist in your barrel might be a tad slow. Also, your sample size is too small affecting your perception of actual precision.
Shoot them some more at shorter distances to confirm your results.
Also, you may need to speed them up a bit.
Going transonic may affect stability.
Click to expand...

Thanks, GooseGestapo. Yes, I see several potential issues on this Lee bullet, some of which I have now found mentioned in forum postings across a wide band of different "buffalo rifle" users:

- It is a very long bullet, which usually necessitates a short twist rate, like 1 in 16. My Pedersoli, and most other non-custom 45-70 rifles are 1 in 18.

- Despite its long overall length, it has a relatively short shank, with 3 large lube grooves in it. This makes it harder to align and stabilize while in the barrel.

- Its claimed BC is quite high, thanks to the spire shaped ogive, but that apparently also makes it less stable in wind and in its reaction to transonic disturbances.

- Despite its long length, it is, because of the narrow ogive, rather light for long range shooting. 500 to 530 grains would have been a better weight. But with that narrow ogive, the bullet would have to be made even longer to add weight, which woulf accentuate all 3 of the above items.

- The combination of its long length and its pointed tip make it a bullet not very usable in your Marlin or any other 45-70 lever action - even when loading single cartridges from the top. It CAN be done but it's not easy.

On the other hand, there is an online 8 minute video of a shooter shooting an almost identical 500g Lee bullet at a metal gong target set at 1000 yards range and several hundred feet higher than the shooter's elevation. And while he does only actually hit the gong a few times in 16 shots, ALL the missed shots are close - like within 1 to 2 minutes of the gong, despite winds that are fierce and rapidly changing:

www.youtube.com

Testing the Lee .45 Caliber 459-500-3R" 500 Grain Cast Bullet at 1000 yards.

Testing of, and addressing rumors regarding the of the Lee .45 Caliber "459-500-3R" 500 Grain Cast Bullet at 1,000 yards.
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

So, evidently, despite the adverse attributes, it CAN be mastered.

Like the Lyman 457125, it can be "challenging" and frustrating.

I spent the morning at the range today with several different loads using it. I'll post about my findings in a separate thread after I have analyzed and understood the target sheets and the Labradar logs. But I can tell you already tonight: I DID get it to group. Not nearly as well as I would like, but way better than my prior attempts.

Jim G
 
Last edited:
JimGnitecki said:
The color looks too yellowy versus brown to be rust I think. Where would the Sulfer come from?
Click to expand...
Strangely enough, Galena, which is a major source of lead, also may be a source for sulfur. Not saying the yellow in the ingots is sulfur, but you asked where it would come from and it literally may be in the ore (Galena) mined for lead. Lead sulfide generally is not anything approximating yellow.
The yellow may also be tin oxide. https://books.google.com/books?id=D...nepage&q=yellow residue on lead alloy&f=false
 
Put a few drops of muriatic acid (HCL) on the yellow section. If it bubbles it's probably zinc. Tin oxide may be a golden color as well. I know that my pewter ingots often have a golden color at times, but that might be from the small amount of copper. Not sure because I'm no metallurgist :).
 
Last edited:
JimGnitecki said:
I am examining and cleaning up the remainder of both the 30 year old wheel weights and the Lead ingot I was recently given. A few of the lead ingot have a sloght yellowy tint on only a portion of the bottom of the ingot.

What might be causing that?

Jim G
Click to expand...
GOLD!
 
Double Naught Spy said:
Strangely enough, Galena, which is a major source of lead, also may be a source for sulfur. Not saying the yellow in the ingots is sulfur, but you asked where it would come from and it literally may be in the ore (Galena) mined for lead. Lead sulfide generally is not anything approximating yellow.
The yellow may also be tin oxide. https://books.google.com/books?id=DyrohYlFCiYC&pg=PA213&lpg=PA213&dq=yellow+residue+on+lead+alloy&source=bl&ots=J_SnAPvP-V&sig=GgL4kJgHiodTk-i54R1FBxnJwVo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=lpg7T4ODNsTqtgecyMDnCg#v=onepage&q=yellow residue on lead alloy&f=false
Click to expand...
Interesting!

Jim G
 
horseman1 said:
Put a few drops of muriatic acid (HCL) on the yellow section. If it bubbles it's probably zinc. Tin oxide may be a golden color as well. I know that my pewter ingots often have a golden color at times, but that might be from the small amount of copper. Not sure because I'm no metallurgist :).
Click to expand...
I don't have any Muriatic acid, and would not want to buy a "gallon" or similar quantity, because disposal then becomes a problem. Can it be bought somehwere in a container size of just a few ounces?

Jim G
 
My freshman college General Chemistry class included qualitative analysis. If you are near a college that has a chemistry course, you might get lucky by describing your situation to the teacher, and offering an ingot for their use as an "unknown" sample.
 
I've never seen it in small quantities like that Jim. Know anyone who cleans concrete or is a welder? I'm not a real welder, I just fix and make stuff around the ranch. I use HCL to remove the zinc from galvanized metal to avoid the zinc gas when welding it. It also comes in handy when a wheel weight's composition is in question. Maybe there is a household cleaner that contains some.... Probably not, because it can produce chlorine gas when mixed with the wrong things... With zinc, it just produces hydrogen. easily neutralized with baking soda
 
What about mask and glove up and use a wire wheel outside in a drill motor to scrape it off?
 
JimGnitecki said:
I don't have any Muriatic acid, and would not want to buy a "gallon" or similar quantity, because disposal then becomes a problem. Can it be bought somehwere in a container size of just a few ounces?

Jim G
Click to expand...
Common toilet bowl cleaner, The Works, will do what you need. (hydrochloric acid)
 
J-Bar said:
My freshman college General Chemistry class included qualitative analysis. If you are near a college that has a chemistry course, you might get lucky by describing your situation to the teacher, and offering an ingot for their use as an "unknown" sample.
Click to expand...
Interesting idea. There is a college here. I'll look into that possibility.

Jim G
 
PWC said:
What about mask and glove up and use a wire wheel outside in a drill motor to scrape it off?
Click to expand...
You mean try to scrape the Zinc (or whatever it is) layer off of each ingot? I'm not wild about that idea. It would create a lot of airborne stuff.

Jim G
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

V
  • Locked
Zinc in Lead
2
Replies
29
Views
8K
zxcvbob
Z
J
Rotometals' "Super Hard" ingots are very easy to use to make accurate BHN alloy
Replies
10
Views
514
41 Mag
4
T
  • Locked
Get the [zinc?] out.
2
Replies
25
Views
2K
mdi
mdi
J
Is BHN 10 for OLD wheel weights typical & sufficient for 500g buffalo rifle bullet handload pressures?
2
Replies
38
Views
801
JimGnitecki
J
bersaguy
  • Locked
What to expect with wheel weights
2 3
Replies
53
Views
3K
LOLBELL
L
Back
Top