Is BHN 10 for OLD wheel weights typical & sufficient for 500g buffalo rifle bullet handload pressures?

Oops! Thanks for pointing out the melt temperature of Antimony being 1100F ! Not only am I unsure I could even GET that temperature in a Lyman Mag25 furnace, but I think that high a temperature of melted Antimony added to a Lead alloy would likely adversely affect the alloy (Apparently, heating a Lead alloy with the "right" pre-existing Lead-Tin-Antimony matrices wrecks some of the matrices which we are dependent on for good bullets).

But as I stated, fortunately, at elats for THIS batch of alloy, I don't need any more antimony.

But the Tin question is still a question. Should I add any Tin to make bullet casting a bit easier?

Jim G
I would try and pour what you have. If fill out sucks and your bullets aren't coming out good then you have a drop in solution. Cheap is the reason I cast and pounds of Tin is not cheap. On the other hand I've never seen a more beautiful perfect bullet than one with a high tin content....
 
I would try and pour what you have. If fill out sucks and your bullets aren't coming out good then you have a drop in solution. Cheap is the reason I cast and pounds of Tin is not cheap. On the other hand I've never seen a more beautiful perfect bullet than one with a high tin content....
If i find I want to add Tin, how do I best do it? Can I just add it to the pot when the Lead is alreayd there and metled, or ?

Jim G
 
If i find I want to add Tin, how do I best do it? Can I just add it to the pot when the Lead is alreayd there and metled, or ?

Jim G
Absolutely, cast a few and if they are garbage add the tin. I hold bars with two pair of vice grips to control how much goes in. I do this regularly with superhard. Stir while the pot comes back up to temperature for a good mix.
 
Absolutely, cast a few and if they are garbage add the tin. I hold bars with two pair of vice grips to control how much goes in. I do this regularly with superhard. Stir while the pot comes back up to temperature for a good mix.
Ok! Thank-you! Since I will be melting 23.6 lb of alloy, I will, if necessary, add 0.25 lb of Tin = 1% more Tin, which on top of the 0.5% supposedly already there, should be enough.

Jim G
 
I melt in 2" of Rotometals linotype to my Lee 10 lb pot. Near pure, WW, or range scrap. Seems to work. Never checking BHN.

For 357/44 mags, WW & 2" Linotype work. Note, Lyman uses #2 for all, except muzzle loaders. Lees key drive slugs requires pure.

Arsenic may be found in all leads, except certified pure lead. The ammo companys use scrap lead alloys, as well.

If not wanting to spend $$ on linotype, 0ven heat treating works, as long as 2% antimony is present. Fully hardens in 2 weeks.
Casting bullets.
 
This morning I cast some bullets using the alloy I have descriebd above.

I did it using a different mold than I had been using. The Lee aluminum 485g mold had produced bullets that were VERY accurate at 100 yards (3-shot groups as small as 0.62"), but at 150 yards and beyond, they would not group. Checking my Labradar results, I saw that these bullets were going transonic at about 125 yards. Evidently, they did not handle that transition at all well.

So, I did this morning's casting using a Lyman iron 500g mold that was brand new. I had cleaned it thoroughly, and smoked it using a Butane lighter, and preheated it somewhat on the preheating plate on my Lyman Mag 25 25 lb furnace.

The Lyman mold produces a bullet very different in shape from that produced by the Lee mold. here is a photo of the 2 different bullets,, with the Lee bullet on the left and the Lyman on the right:

Bullets shapes Lee 485g vs Lyman 500g - 1.jpeg

Note that despite the Lyman bullet being 15g heavier, it is still SHORTER than the Lee bullet. Note also that the Lyman head is also longer as well as fatter. Note that the Lee bullet has 3 lubricant grooves, while the Lyman has 4. The lube groove difference is interesting to me NOT because the Lyman bulelt has an extra groove, for lubricant, since I will be pwoder coating these, just as I did the Lee bullets I had previously cast. Rather, the extra groove might help to break up any transonic shock waves or other transonic effects.

Early results were not good. The iIRON mold was not nearly hot enough after the 23.5 lb of alloy in the pot reached my initial temperature target of 670F. Lots of "wrinkles, and many of the bullets did not want to fall out of the mold when I opened the mold. Casting more bullets to heat up the mold helped a bit, but the bullets still had wrinkles. So I did TWO things (because I limited on time so did both at once):
- I upped the pot temperature a couple of times, from 670F to 700F and then to 720F
- I added 0.25 lb of Tin (about 1% of the 23.5 lb of alloy in the pot)

Things improved!

Within a relatively small number of additional bullets cast, I began getting wrinkle-free bullets that usually dropped out of the mold without having to strike the handle hinge bolt. And, the pour rate from the bottom valve on the pot was faster and noticeably smoother and more controllable.

I cast a total of 137 bullets, of which:

19 were unquestionably bad quality (wrinkles, small voids in the base or profile of the bullet)

16 are what I am temporarily calling "maybe" in terms of usability

102 that look good to me.

Here is a photo of 5 of the bad ones:

Bullets Lyman 500g quality issues - Getting worse L to R - 1.jpeg

The defects get progressively worse in this photo, from left to right:

No. 1 on the left has visible wrinkles that you cannot FEEL, just SEE. I don't know if that disqualifies that bullet altogether for usability?

No. 2 is similar

No. 3 is similar. Its wrinkles are more visible, but still cannot be FELT.

No. 4 has a serious void in the bottommost lube groove.

No. 5 has TWO voids within its lube grooves AND if you look closely at it, you can see where the mold parting line is visible. This bullet, and a few others early in the casting sequence, actually exhibited little lead "whiskers" at the mold parting line. Does this mean that I was not squeezing the mold handles enough, or is this a symptom of something different?

I am also wondering, on those bullets I referred to as in the "maybe" quality category: Those have no voids, and no "feelable" wrinkles, but you can SEE some wirnkle type patterns on them. Are they usable, or will they perform in a substandard way?

I don't know how any of these Lyman mold 500g bullets will shoot. I'll have to powder coat some, and load some cartridges up at different powder levels for a ladder test. I intend to try a BROAD velcoity range, from as high as 1350 fps to as low as 1060 fps, to see if the transonic speed range is a problem or not with this bullet.

Jim G
 
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The one on the right looks much cleaner, which was cast first.
I'm sorry, I was not able to record the order in which the bulelts were cast. When I open the mold by striking the sprue plate, a bullet can go to multiple trajectories, and should not be handled right away, so no idea of how early this bulelt was made. But it seemed to me that once the bullets starting to come out "good" most were quite good. I aimed my infrared temperature gun at the mold body in exactly the same spot from time to time, and found that the best bullets were coming out when the mold temperature on the gun showed as 105C = 221F. This of course is NOT necessarily the "actual" temperature.

Jim G
 
I'm sorry, I was not able to record the order in which the bulelts were cast. When I open the mold by striking the sprue plate, a bullet can go to multiple trajectories, and should not be handled right away, so no idea of how early this bulelt was made. But it seemed to me that once the bullets starting to come out "good" most were quite good. I aimed my infrared temperature gun at the mold body in exactly the same spot from time to time, and found that the best bullets were coming out when the mold temperature on the gun showed as 105C = 221F. This of course is NOT necessarily the "actual" temperature.

Jim G
That seems like half of what I expected but that's only because it instantly boils off water. Never monitored mold temperature, but they drill them for probes so it's a thing.
 
That seems like half of what I expected but that's only because it instantly boils off water. Never monitored mold temperature, but they drill them for probes so it's a thing.
Do NOT assume that the infrared reading is anywhere lcose to accurate. It is not! Reflectivity of the measured surface is a big factor. But, the gun's reading IS repeatable. I found that the mold temperature went as low as 95C and as high as 112C, depending upon how long I let the sprue cool before striking the sprue plate, and how long i took to do things that interrupted the normal casting cycle time. But, if I saw the temperature at or near 105C, the results looked good and the bullets fell out of the mold without needing to strike the handle hinge bolt. So, that is now my recorded "target mold temperature".

Are any of the bullets in the "defects" photo actually usable or not?

And, are the ones that have "visible" but not "feelable" "wrinkles" or other visible but not feelable markings, usable or not?

Jim G
 
Do NOT assume that the infrared reading is anywhere lcose to accurate. It is not! Reflectivity of the measured surface is a big factor. But, the gun's reading IS repeatable. I found that the mold temperature went as low as 95C and as high as 112C, depending upon how long I let the sprue cool before striking the sprue plate, and how long i took to do things that interrupted the normal casting cycle time. But, if I saw the temperature at or near 105C, the results looked good and the bullets fell out of the mold without needing to strike the handle hinge bolt. So, that is now my recorded "target mold temperature".

Are any of the bullets in the "defects" photo actually usable or not?

And, are the ones that have "visible" but not "feelable" "wrinkles" or other visible but not feelable markings, usable or not?

Jim G
My rejection criteria are bases and driving bands mostly. But just ugly has been returned to the pot as well. The bullet on the right appears very nice but the base is critical imo. In the bottom 5 picture all would be rejected. Mold not warmed up yet.
 
My rejection criteria are bases and driving bands mostly. But just ugly has been returned to the pot as well. The bullet on the right appears very nice but the base is critical imo. In the bottom 5 picture all would be rejected. Mold not warmed up yet.
Thanks, AJC1! That provides guidance for not only this batch, but also going forward, as to what to look for.

Jim G
 
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