What does all this mean on M1 Garand CMP TAG?
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Garandimal
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This ^? ...Is patently false and ignorant.
The U.S. Army used a specific Ten(10) point scale correlating Throat Diameter, Erosion, and Service Life:
Spelled out in the U.S. Army Technical Manual TM 9-1275.
SERVICEABILITY CHART - RIFLES, U. S., CAL. .30, M1, M1C, & M1D
IN THE HANDS OF TROOPS
Max. 0.310" (gauge 10)
TO ACCOMPANY TROOPS OVERSEAS
Max. 0.306" (gauge 6)
TO BE PLACED IN STORAGE FOR REISSUE
Max. 0.305" (gauge 5)
SERVICEABILITY CHART - RIFLES, U. S., CAL. .30, M1, M1C, & M1D
IN THE HANDS OF TROOPS
Max. 0.310" (gauge 10)
TO ACCOMPANY TROOPS OVERSEAS
Max. 0.306" (gauge 6)
TO BE PLACED IN STORAGE FOR REISSUE
Max. 0.305" (gauge 5)
From Scott Duff:
A Comment on Throat Erosion from Scott Duff
It has come to my attention from discussions with many M1 Garand owners that a misunderstanding of an acceptable versus an unacceptable Throat Erosion (TE) reading exists. A note of clarification is in order. When discussing serviceability specifications of U.S. Martial Arms, it is best to review the primary source, the U.S. Army Ordnance Corps documents from when the M1 rifle was the issue rifle to front-line troops. I have in my files TB ORD 587 dated 20 December 1954 entitled Field Inspection and Serviceability Standards for Small Arms Material. A chart on page four outlines the serviceability specifications for the M1, M1C, and M1D rifles “To Accompany Troops Overseas.” The specification given for “Breech Bore Rejection” is “Over 0.306” or a TE reading of 6 on a gage. No specification is given for muzzle wear. If combat troops in the 1950s were issued rifles with a TE of 6 or under, then the same is good enough for a rifle in my collection. I would not go to the John C. Garand Match at Camp Perry with a rifle with a TE of 6, but for general collecting, in my opinion, it matters little.
This is also a good time to note that based upon my observations the TE of a new production SA barrel during World War II ran anywhere from approximately 1.0 to 3.5. Pre World War II SA barrels were usually in the 0.0 to 1.0 range. Winchester barrels were generally in the -1.0 to 2.0 range, but I have seen new WRA barrels with higher and lower readings. An expanded version of this including information on post WII barrels will be published in a future issue of the Garand Collectors Association Journal (GCA).
Given: Bore Dia. = 30 Caliber = 0.300"
1. The Throat generally erodes at a rate of 0.001" (or one gauge number) for every 2000 rounds fired.
2. The Muzzle generally erodes at 1/3 the rate of the throat.
(GCA empirical test data)
Given: A new, post-war ('52) barrel with average gauge readings of ME=0.5/TE=1.0
Given: Maximum barrel service life is TE=10.0 (0.310")
Your Bbl. should have:
~ 4000 rounds through it. [Throat erosion (3.0-1.0)2000], and therefore a muzzle erosion of (2.0)/3 + 0.5 = 1.2, or simply ME=1+
~ 14,000 rounds of service life left. (10.0-3.0)2000.
(although accuracy may start falling off in ~ 10,000 rounds (3.0+5.0=8.0 or 0.308"))
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Garandimal
member
Spec sheet on the Stone Axe Gauge:
GR
Garandimal
member
Something else to consider - The CMP uses their gauges... a lot, and in a hurry. Subsequently, they are worn and somewhat abused.
EVERY Service Grade M1 Garand I have received gauged at least a half point lower in the Throat on my Stone Axe than the hang-tag noted..
So, your "3" may actually be closer to "2.5" - which would put the rounds through at ~ 3,000 and Max service life at 15,000.
That would also account for the ME being marked "1+," when it might very well actually be "1" or a little less.
Enjoy your "...Greatest Battle Implement Ever Devised..."
GR
Can I use the gauge for my collection of 1903 Springfield rifles or is the variety of barrel
makers a drawback for them?
I noticed some similar info on them in throat & muzzle readings posted where they are for sell.
Also I have seen some for sell at gun shows that look like the muzzle was an oil funnel instead
of a rifle barrel. Always wondered who would continue to shooting a barrel in that bad of a condition? Knowing
they were throwing terrible shotgun patterns down range.
And the price they wanted for them was ridiculous.
Garandimal
member
As for the gauges - either combo gauge will work at either Muzzle, but the Throats need their own specific gauge (M1 or M1903).
GR
CapnMac
Member
Demand has gone up and the supply of (cheap) M-1 has gone down. So, junker sketchy Blue Sky versions now go for ridiculous prices (or, are at least tagged that way at shows). There's an outfit that's always at the Premiere shows in Fort Worth, and they always seem to have two racks of sketchy US milsurp at ludicrous prices. Yet, it's almost never the same inventory from one show to another, so, some few of them must be selling. I can't imagine tossing down $1500 or $1800 for a stock that looks to be finished with used motor oil, patchwork parkerizing, bare-metal gas tubes, and otherwise dubious condition by any but an utter newb.
Otherwise, I got nuthin'
The metal & wood are good on this Garand but the finish is sloppy to say the least.
Options:
1= What if I replace the whole wood furniture with a new set up, OR 2= let my wife do the
wood over & refinish it? She does great work & even does them for a local gun shop
which helps them sell their rifles & revolvers.
Will that help the price of this low # Springfield or not?
Will pics help?
Options:
1= What if I replace the whole wood furniture with a new set up, OR 2= let my wife do the
wood over & refinish it? She does great work & even does them for a local gun shop
which helps them sell their rifles & revolvers.
Will that help the price of this low # Springfield or not?
Will pics help?
Several of the Garands that I have purchased came with USGI stocks. The condition of the stocks, while not poor, they were not great either.
I replaced the stocks with new manufactured stocks but have kept the old stocks in the event I sell the rifle and the purchaser wants the USGI stock. If you go this route, buy replacement metal for the fore ends. It is easier than removing it from one stock and installing it on the other.
Go over to the CMP forum and read the M1 Garand section. It will give you a better read on what other folks are doing with the wood on their Garands. Go back many, many years.
http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?s=c7570f679a50e07826c0cdbc19fb0d24&f=7
If your Garand already has a new, current manufacture stock replaced by CMP, then have your wife work her magic on it. I'm sure it will be fantastic.
bbqreloader
Member
Received a CMP stock and re finished the stock myself, with the help of this thread and the OP's advice.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/a-little-road-trip-to-the-cmp-south-store.835226/
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/a-little-road-trip-to-the-cmp-south-store.835226/
Love the clicks you guys sent, I believe I will get the new furniture & rings while keeping the old
stuff for original set. The metal looks good on this one so it will look good.
I have seen some new stocks on Garands & 1903's that have metal in serious condition which
only exaggerates the bad condition of the metal.
stuff for original set. The metal looks good on this one so it will look good.
I have seen some new stocks on Garands & 1903's that have metal in serious condition which
only exaggerates the bad condition of the metal.
The top one is the low # we covered already. Waiting on the Gauge to get here.# ! = Why is the trigger on the middle H&R different than the other 2 Garands?
# 2 = Also the bottom International Harvester barrel has so much writing on the barrel & regardless of how much
I keep reading there is never enough to explain the seeming endless abbreviations I run into.
Unlike the others I have, this one goes up into the wood & - by my best guess - say [ on the barrel ]
? ? ? ? ? ? INC. SC. ELMONTE CA. D6535### LMR-A33 4 54 M
That's more than my head can lap up. All I think I know is the barrel is from April 1954 & that has
to be right //// doesn't it?
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Sistema1927
Member
There were two different trigger guards. The middle one is the earliest and was replaced by one that was easier and cheaper to make. Both work.
Garandimal
member
As for trigger guards: the one w/ the hole in the rear is "milled," the original design through most of WWII (IMMSM) and the hole is for a "Winter trigger." The other is the newer "stamped" variety.
.
As for the Bbl: It would appear to be an APR54 LMR (Line Material Co. of Birmingham, AL) barrel, very common on IHC M1 Garands and of very high quality - comparable to '60's Springfield's and Danish VAR's.
The "? ? ? ? ? ? INC. SC. ELMONTE CA" is most likely an import stamp marking.
Nice lookin' Service Grade rifles.
On a personal note:
One thing to understand about DCM/CMP rifles is - they earned their character in the Service fields.
Pretty Service Rifles - are like a set of brand new cammies... not sweat, no salt, no story.
My Service Rifles - get cleaned and treated, the metal with grease and maybe some CLP, and the wood with a mineral spirits wipe-down and if it is raw or dry a coat or two of BLO (boiled linseed oil) and some time in the hot sun to cure.
Other than that? I shoot'em... and listen to their stories.
GR
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P5 Guy
Member
Three M1s, always have in multiples of three to use the stacking swivels.
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