What does this handgun vs. phone book test tell me?

[GJgo]

Today I gathered up a couple phone books that have been accumulating in the driveway, some trusty handguns & ammo, and went to the range to do some impromptu penetration testing. Being fresh out of water & a jug I left them dry.

-It was no suprise that the 44 mag handloads blasted right through and kept on going with a good mushroom. Took some digging to find it. I think I heard the dirt behind the phone books cry a little bit.
-It was a bit suprising that the 10mm penciled right through after clogging the tip. Of course, these were slow factory loads. So, I did a follow-up 10mm round through a water jug first. Got my mushroom and it stopped in the "off side hide" of the phone books.
-The heavy 9mm also clogged & penciled right through. Forgot to write the velocity on the note, I think it was going about 940 FPS.

Here's where I had some questions, with my two main "carry" loads.
-In the 357 I carry the Federal blue box 125gr hollow points. This fragmented pretty bad and did not penetrate two phone books- only about 1 2/3. Great, all energy dumped on target. I've read this is one of the best self-defense loads ever.
-In the 9mm I carry Remington 124gr +p Golden Sabers. Despite being the same weight as the 357 load and travelling a hundred and a half slower, these rounds blasted right through both books & I actually never recovered one. Maybe they clogged, maybe they're just that good?.?.

Of course this isn't a perfect test. But, it left me wondering about over-penetration concerns in the 9mm +p load. Something to talk about anyway. What do you guys think?

 

[bigfatdave]

dry phone books are not meat, I wouldn't take expansion/clogging data from dry paper very seriously, seeing as ammunition is designed to expand in meat with hydraulic pressure.

 

[PabloJ]

Today I gathered up a couple phone books that have been accumulating in the driveway, some trusty handguns & ammo, and went to the range to do some impromptu penetration testing. Being fresh out of water & a jug I left them dry.

-It was no suprise that the 44 mag handloads blasted right through and kept on going with a good mushroom. Took some digging to find it. I think I heard the dirt behind the phone books cry a little bit.
-It was a bit suprising that the 10mm penciled right through after clogging the tip. Of course, these were slow factory loads. So, I did a follow-up 10mm round through a water jug first. Got my mushroom and it stopped in the "off side hide" of the phone books.
-The heavy 9mm also clogged & penciled right through. Forgot to write the velocity on the note, I think it was going about 940 FPS.

Here's where I had some questions, with my two main "carry" loads.
-In the 357 I carry the Federal blue box 125gr hollow points. This fragmented pretty bad and did not penetrate two phone books- only about 1 2/3. Great, all energy dumped on target. I've read this is one of the best self-defense loads ever.
-In the 9mm I carry Remington 124gr +p Golden Sabers. Despite being the same weight as the 357 load and travelling a hundred and a half slower, these rounds blasted right through both books & I actually never recovered one. Maybe they clogged, maybe they're just that good?.?.

Of course this isn't a perfect test. But, it left me wondering about over-penetration concerns in the 9mm +p load. Something to talk about anyway. What do you guys think?

The 10mm and .44Mag are offensive weapons I would switch to .45ACP immediately.

 

[MikePaiN]

No offense GJ....and it is early in the morning...but I have no idea what you did or what you are trying to show?

 

[*Klutch*]

They don't really show much other than if they are wet phone books, how many the different loads will go through but also will they expand in that type of media. They have to be soaking wet in order to get any results and it's hard to keep them that way if they're not in a container.
I'm going to refer you to this guy on youtube he does these types of tests and pretty good at it too.
http://www.youtube.com/user/tnoutdoors9

I did the test you're doing with wet phone books and found the 9mm Federal HSP 124+P performed the best and expanded every time, also the 9mm 124 Rem. Golden Sabre did the worst and hardly expanded at all.

 

[GJgo]

Thanks guys,

Of course soaking wet phone books are a better choice, like I said, this was just messing around. However, as a hunter who has put pistol & rifle bullets into game I have come to the conclusion that HP bullets designed to expand don't always do so when they hit a critter, and sometimes you have no idea why. Probably clogging or a collapsed tip upon entry. So, I had to ask myself, how will my bullets perform *if* they don't expand? This might help me to choose a better projectile for a given purpose. I guess in a roundabout way that's where I'm going here. Hey, at least it isn't another "Smith vs Ruger" thread.

Pablo, the 10 & the 44 are my offensive (hunting) and "woods defensive" handguns. Not really part of the question, but I carry them when I trounce around the Rockies where there are critters much larger than I. I sold all my 45s the first time I shot a 10mm, there's no going back for me. Besides, they are a side bar to the main question of bullet selection in my carry guns.

Klutch, thanks for the link- I'll check it out. The 357 I'm good with. What I'm thinking is that maybe I need something either a little lighter & faster, or a little softer, for my compact 9mm. This could potentialy hedge my bets against a pass-through in a SD situation *if* the round failed to expand. Good to know that you also weren't impressed with the GS round.

 

[Trent]

It sure was cool to watch Mythbusters armor up that car with phonebooks and shoot the hell out of it, though.

 

[EddieNFL]

Hopefully, I'll never have to shoot a phonebook.

 

[MICHAEL T]

Hopefully, I'll never have to shoot a phonebook.

Makes it hard to find a number you want all those holes and torn pages .

 

[Vonderek]

You guys are old school. I shoot at whitepages.com for my testing

 

[Trent]

Vonderek; been there, done that!

Had an HP machine at work that liked to blue-screen all the time, even after a fresh OS install. So... I recently brought it home for a proper retirement party in the back yard, and gave it a 7 shot salute of magnum 12 gauge 00-buck. With the rounds passing through the cover and mainboard before impacting the back plate, that aluminum chassis managed to stop dang near all of it - to my great surprise. Was quite impressive.

If a madman with a shotgun ever storms your workplace, the computer you are using could be rightly considered "partial cover".

"PULL!"