What full size 9mm handgun would hold up best for extended +P and +P+ use?
- Thread starter Balrog
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From your list, my choice would be the SIG Sauer P226, although I would probably be inclined to go with the P229 instead.
I would not hesitate to use a steady diet of +P ammo in a Beretta 92FS/M9. Just buy a replacement locking block to keep on hand, and inspect the block and the frame closely when you clean the pistol. Any signs of cracks in the locking block, replace it, and replace it anyway if you get to 20,000 rounds. Locking blocks are easily replaced and cost $35.
I would not hesitate to use a steady diet of +P ammo in a Beretta 92FS/M9. Just buy a replacement locking block to keep on hand, and inspect the block and the frame closely when you clean the pistol. Any signs of cracks in the locking block, replace it, and replace it anyway if you get to 20,000 rounds. Locking blocks are easily replaced and cost $35.
One thing that may be worth noting is that the M&P was built for .40 from the ground up. .40 generates more recoil than even hot 9mm, and the M&P was intended to handle it. That doesn't necessarily mean that it will hold up better, just that it was designed anticipating a harder-recoiling round than the others, which, IIRC, were all designed around the 9mm from day one.
Orcon
Member
Glad I wasn't the only one thinking this. The Ruger P series are ugly, heavy, have poor ergonomics but they will shoot and shoot and shoot.
jhb
Member
flawed poll. no "other" category.
hk usp is my pick. on that list i'd vote sig i think...especially if a german made one.
hk usp is my pick. on that list i'd vote sig i think...especially if a german made one.I voted Glock 17.
However, I don't see any reason to use +P or +P+ in a 9mm. You are only getting 100-150 fps more in a round already doing 1100 fps or so. You can find that much variation between guns of the same model. If you look at CCI/Speer charts they only get about 45 fps more in a 124 gr +P.
+P and +P+ are useful in a caliber like 38 spl that is underloaded by the manufacturers. They came out in the late 70s and early 80s in response to Super Vel's success. This was a way to improve ammo performance and still be politically correct for LE agencies so they could say they were using 38 spl and not a "too powerful" magnum. The big manufacturers put Super Vel out of business.
If you need more velocity get more gun.
JMO.
However, I don't see any reason to use +P or +P+ in a 9mm. You are only getting 100-150 fps more in a round already doing 1100 fps or so. You can find that much variation between guns of the same model. If you look at CCI/Speer charts they only get about 45 fps more in a 124 gr +P.
+P and +P+ are useful in a caliber like 38 spl that is underloaded by the manufacturers. They came out in the late 70s and early 80s in response to Super Vel's success. This was a way to improve ammo performance and still be politically correct for LE agencies so they could say they were using 38 spl and not a "too powerful" magnum. The big manufacturers put Super Vel out of business.
If you need more velocity get more gun.
JMO.
Old Dog
Member
I made a stupid comment? How about, "They are due to preventive maintenance being NON-EXISTANT [sic] in the military." Apparently, I served in the only military units that had armorers doing their jobs, i.e., scheduled planned maintenance. Amazing that only on the internet do we see all these undocumented comments about massive quantities of broken M-9s.
Here's what I actually said, that some wanted to argue: "The M-9 has served the military as well as can reasonably be expected of a semi-automatic pistol."
For the record, my first post in this thread was entirely on topic; any derailing of the thread came about with the unsubstantiated M-9 bashing and my objection forthwith. Finally, note that I stated my choice as the SIG-P-226, with which your first post somewhat concurred.
Funny how this type of thread always seems to devolve into hyperbole ...
To be a bit more clinical about this, Beretta's and Sigs are nice guns, and I chose a 92 over a USP or Glock for volume shooting of standard pressure 9mm. However, if the SEALs are getting about 60,000 rounds of +P out of their P226s, and Beretta's have similar life expectancies, I can't see that comparing to G17s that have gone many hundreds of thousands of rounds. The built it buffering affect of the flexible polymer frame appears to prevent major wear on the frame compared to alloy framed guns, and the Glock locking surfaces (slide, barrel, locking block) appear to hold up very well without peening or rounded edges. Frequent replacement of the very inexpensive Glock recoil spring assembly should be the only real maintenance needed to shoot 200,000 rounds of +P without any problems.
I don't particularly like Glocks, but of the guns on the list I would have the most confidence in a G17 to put up with the abuse. Other polymer guns could do as well or even better (the USP9F being both super tough and having a buffer system), so quality alternatives should also include the P30, VP9, PX4, FNS and P99/PPQ for products similar to the Glock or M&P. Glock certainly has built a reputation as a high volume pistol, though.
I don't particularly like Glocks, but of the guns on the list I would have the most confidence in a G17 to put up with the abuse. Other polymer guns could do as well or even better (the USP9F being both super tough and having a buffer system), so quality alternatives should also include the P30, VP9, PX4, FNS and P99/PPQ for products similar to the Glock or M&P. Glock certainly has built a reputation as a high volume pistol, though.
When you were doing your job, what was the method used to determine recoil spring replacement? What appears to be a constant with everyone I've spoken with is that noone tracks rounds fired, and that the 5" spring method came about somewhat later on.
Old Dog
Member
When not deployed, round count of all pistols kept in the armory was pretty much guesstimated based on the training schedule (5000 rounds in the old days was a few years of use, today, well, you know)... when deployed, PMCS was the responsibility of the operator, which simply consisted of checking the recoil spring to ensure it wasn't bent, for flat spots or damage (and to make sure that the free length was at least 5"), dropping the guide rod through each end of the spring to make sure it goes in easily ... checking guide rod for burrs, straightness, damage ...
FL-NC
Member
In this order: Glock, S&W, SIG, Beretta. It is possible that the S&W MAY outlast the Glock, but even if you manage to break a Glock, it doesn't matter- excellent customer service (I broke a frame, and they replaced it and my night sights at no charge and returned it within a week). I know the SIG will outlast the beretta based on personal experience having been issued both in the military, as well as from anecdotal information I obtained from SEALS who had much more experience with the SIG than I had. In all honesty, I would rather use something like a S&W 39 or a Ruger P series long before a Beretta.
FL-NC
Member
OOH- is there some problem between me and you? I never claimed to know everything, and I don't ever recollect calling you out, insulting or acting towards you in a condescending manner, or accusing you of stolen valor, as you have felt the need to do to me (on the internet). Maybe its time for you to do some self-assessment and re-visit how to act like a professional. This is The High Road. Maybe you would feel better on some other forum where sophomoric attitudes and teen-aged snarking are SOP.
vba
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I don't think many in the Armed Forces have "seen some things" since WWII, Korea and Viet Nam.
Oh, and I voted for the G17.
ColoradoShooter77
Member
I would say the Ruger SR9 would hold up, solid pistols.
Rubber_Duck
Member
You are correct, I was thinking of the max pressure for the cartridge but I suppose that would be +P+.
Squabbling really isn't going to lead anywhere good on this subject.
That is the end of it
That is the end of it
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