What got the M9 chosen for the US military?

[ATLDave]

Hobo - on the next trigger pull. After the trigger has been pulled the second time. And the shooter of a DA/SA is going to get the same kind of tactile feedback indicating a dud on the second pull. So, here's how it goes:

1st pull on dud: If noisy/concussive environment, shooter does not notice and pulls again
2nd pull on dud: May discharge; if not, trigger felt different because of non-cycling. If too distracted to notice tactile input, may pull again. If aware of tactile input, will realise dud status and clear.
3rd pull on dud: Same as 2nd, above.

This may be a good argument against DAO guns, though, for loud combat situations, since there is no difference in trigger feel between a post-dud pull and a post-live-round pull.

 

[HoboCoastie]

Hobo - on the next trigger pull. After the trigger has been pulled the second time. And the shooter of a DA/SA is going to get the same kind of tactile feedback indicating a dud on the second pull. So, here's how it goes:

1st pull on dud: If noisy/concussive environment, shooter does not notice and pulls again
2nd pull on dud: May discharge; if not, trigger felt different because of non-cycling. If too distracted to notice tactile input, may pull again. If aware of tactile input, will realise dud status and clear.
3rd pull on dud: Same as 2nd, above.

This may be a good argument against DAO guns, though, for loud combat situations, since there is no difference in trigger feel between a post-dud pull and a post-live-round pull.

Lol...I'm not sure if your were arguing with or against there, but in my experience with the M9 and the Sig P229 DAK (not an Master but have shot both aplenty), I felt no difference (aside from recoil) of a dry fire DA trigger and a Successful fire of a DA trigger.

On my Glock, when it isn't cocked, the trigger is positioned in the rear and has minimal travel indicating immediately that it isn't cocked/a failure has occurred.

Not sure which is the lesser of two evils there with regard to the outcome of a firefight. I wonder if studies were conducted and that's why a DA is required by the military?

I think for carry purposes, people tend to buy better quality ammo...I know I do. A dud is a rare thing these days if you actually spend good money on personal defense ammo. I don't know who'd trust their life with Winchester White Box (even though I've never had a dud at the range) or Wolf. I generally run Hornady TAP or Federal FMJ...running the Federals currently.

 

[ATLDave]

in my experience with the M9 and the Sig P229 DAK (not an Master but have shot both aplenty), I felt no difference (aside from recoil) of a dry fire DA trigger and a Successful fire of a DA trigger.

On my Glock, when it isn't cocked, the trigger is positioned in the rear and has minimal travel indicating immediately that it isn't cocked/a failure has occurred.

Dry and live DA pulls will feel the same. But on an M9, a DA pull should be followed by a SA pull. And and SA is followed by an SA. So, as with the Glock, there should be immediate tactile feedback on the next pull if the round is a dud. The DAO trigger won't. I suppose I am arguing that DA/SA offers the feedback of a Glock, but the possibility of that second pull (which is also what provides the feedback) doing something.

 

[Chindo18Z]

Regarding tactile feedback...don't over-think driving the weapon or you will get lost in the sauce.

In a very loud environment, I normally notice recoil from my M9 as the primary indicator as to whether or not it has fired. This is a clear indicator despite noise cancelling muffs (with a tactical radio freq in each ear), helicopters, breaching charges, heavy machine gun fire, other explosions, armored vehicle engines, yelling, etc.

I'd not be too concerned about what trigger status an SA 1911, Striker-Fired Glock, or DA/SA Beretta defaults to after its firing pin encounters a dud round.

If you didn't feel recoil...you probably didn't fire a round. Time to execute an instantaneous Malfunction Drill.

(Not completely discounting the rare possibility of a squib during a gunfight, but we are currently talking about duds.)

In my experience, although the M9 delivers a pretty robust primer strike, some military cartridges have hard primers that will occasionally fail to fire. Many of those same dud rounds will actually fire upon receipt of a second hammer blow to the firing pin. But, we don't teach it as an Immediate Action Drill, training instead to clearing the offending round and load a fresh round of 9mm.

Second Strike Capability is just an incidental feature that SA/DA semi-autos possess in common with DAO semi-autos. It's another left over good idea from back in the day, but does have some utility in the unlikely event that you are locked in a grappling tussle or otherwise reduced to using one hand while simultaneously encountering a dud cartridge.

A Last Best Move.

 

[JohnKSa]

One nice thing about a second strike capability is that if the round fires on the second strike you totally eliminate the possibility of manually ejecting a hangfire round and having it go off sometime during that process.