What happens when...

Status
Not open for further replies.

brokencowboy

Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
59
Location
NC
LEO's run out of ammo? This story concerns the county I live in. I have a friend who is on the police force in a neighboring county & several months ago I loaded some practice ammo for him to get ready far his yearly qualification.

http://www.statesville.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=SRL/MGArticle/SRL_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173355631989

Gun users making their rounds count
By Donna Swicegood
[email protected]
Friday, June 6, 2008



A local law enforcement official holds a Glock pistol and its magazine.
Regan Hill/[email protected]
As a competitive shooter and a firearms instructor, Larry Hilton knows all too well the cost of ammunition is rising at a record rate.

“I am more conscientious about the number of rounds I shoot,” said Hilton, a part-time Iredell County sheriff’s deputy and Basic Law Enforcement Training instructor at Mitchell Community College.

In the past two years, the cost of ammunition jumped about 70 percent, forcing law enforcement and competitive shooters like Hilton to tighten their gun belts.

Iredell County Sheriff Phil Redmond said not only has the cost of ammunition risen to record levels, but in some cases, availability is limited.

Capt. Marty Byers, the training officer for the sheriff’s office, said ammunition stockpiles are getting lower and new supplies are on backorder.

“As of right now, we are eight months on backorder,” Byers said, and the sheriff’s office is months away from getting its oldest order processed.

Just a few years ago, the wait was about 30 days, Redmond said.

Ammunition suppliers blame the low inventories and rising costs on a high demand for metals, particularly in China and India, and a weakening U.S. dollar.

During the 2007-08 budget year, the sheriff’s office has spent more than $39,000 on ammunition.

Byers said with the most recent order he placed, a case of ammunition was $147.50. That same case cost about $20 less six months ago, he said.

The increased costs of the materials necessary to make ammunition are a factor, Hilton said.

“Brass has gone up. Copper has gone up. All of the individual elements necessary to make a bullet have gone up,” he said.

Redmond said the costs and inventory issues are not affecting day-to-day safety for deputies, but are putting a crimp in yearly qualifying.

In North Carolina, certified law enforcement officers are required to qualify with their duty weapons, which range from sidearms to shotguns.

The state mandates each officer have a proficiency of 70 percent. The sheriff’s office’s standards are higher, requiring 80 percent, Byers said.

To meet that qualification, deputies and police officers expend a lot of ammunition training, Redmond said.

Because of the low supply of ammunition, the sheriff’s office pushed qualifications back to the fall, but they can only push so far, Redmond said.

“A certified law enforcement officer has to qualify within that existing year or he loses his state certification and can’t carry a weapon,” Redmond said.

Statesville Police Chief Steve Hampton said his department isn’t facing a shortage, but it could be coming.

“We order our ammunition for the year,” he said. A new order will be needed in the next few months, and Hampton said, that’s when his department will feel the impact.

Byers said he also tries to buy in advance, but the backlog means backorders.

Hilton said a lot of competitive shooters tried to do the same thing.

“I stocked up,” he said.

A competitive shooter, he said, will go through 500 rounds in a single session, but now, many are cutting back.

“It hurts the pocketbook more than it did in the past,” he said.
Perry Windsor, a competitive shooter, said he replenishes his own ammunition supply and stocked up on the materials a couple of years ago.

“I found a store that was going out of business and bought a lifetime supply of primer and powder for a lot less than it costs now,” he said.

He agreed the demands for materials needed to make ammunition sent prices skyrocketing.

But, he said, die-hard competitive shooters like himself will likely still fork over the money to participate in a sport they love.

Those who haven’t stocked up and large-capacity users will be dealing with the shortage for a while.

Hilton said the BLET program at Mitchell as well as others across the state will see the impact of the limited availability and costs.

He said a trained law enforcement officer, who has experience at qualifying, will go through 150 rounds of ammunition to maintain certification.

That number rises significantly with untrained recruits, he said.
“We have to have about 1,500 rounds per officer, and with 10 students in a class, that’s a lot of ammunition,” he said.

Like their counterparts who are working as law enforcement officers, BLET cadets have to meet state qualifying standards to receive their certification.

Redmond said not only are the shortages and costs affecting qualifying, it also means speciality units, such as the Sheriff’s Emergency Response Team, is scaling back on training with live ammunition.

But, he stressed, deputies are still equipped with enough ammunition to ensure their safety and that of the public.

“I feel secure that we have an ample supply for the day-to-day operations of the department,” Redmond said.
 
Sounds like most law enforcment agencies need to get into reloading. The cost to supply a small room with a trained person or small crew to reload ammo and supply the field would pay for itself quickly. Especially if they use cast bullets for training purposes and jacketed for field and qualifying.
 
I doubt that most agencies will want to get into that.

There is the expense of acquiring the supplies, the space required, the time and effort to reload it, and potential liability concerns.
 
This article misses the big picture.

Commodities have gone up a little, the dollar has drop A LOT.

We've now got the north american lira, or united states peso.

-T
 
true tyris. However some police agencies have and do reload there own ammo. The other thing that i did not see mentioned is the fact that the military has driven up the prices too. As the cost of .223 has risen immensly. With the military taking first dibs on ammo. We have all seen and heard this for the past what now 5 years. Hopefully when the U.S. does get out of Iraq some of the cost of materials as well as ammo in general will go down. Its is unlikely that this will happen though with all that is purchased and brought in from other countries. From the cost of oil to raw textiles it seems we are relying on tooo much foreign materials rather than using what is here in our own back yard.
 
Years ago I loaded hundreds of rounds of .308 for a LEO buddy so he could get in the practice necessary to qualify for the SWAT team. I would give him 200 rounds one day and he would bring me the empties on the way home. I would give him the same 200 rounds back the next day loaded. I forget now how many times that cycle was repeated. It was a lot quicker and easier than trying to get ammo from the department.

He tried to arrange repayment by getting hold of the department's other .308 brass for me, but someone else walked off with thousands of rounds of it.

That was back in the day when primers were $9/K, powder was a couple bucks a pound, and bullets were cheap. It helped that I also had access to my company's Hodgdon warehouse wholesale card.

:)
 
Wouldn't they just factor ammo into their budget & perhaps make cuts elsewhere?
 
I doubt that most agencies will want to get into that.

There is the expense of acquiring the supplies, the space required, the time and effort to reload it, and potential liability concerns.

Yup, and you do not want some idiot that does not know what he is doing reloading it for you, so you will have to offer quality pay to get quality people. They said 39,000 for ammo. How many people would it take to reload that much ammo? Salaries alone may be more than their cost of ammo.

Wouldn't they just factor ammo into their budget & perhaps make cuts elsewhere?

Make cuts where? Pay, benifits, weapons? You can only cut costs so much.
 
Make cuts where? Pay, benifits, weapons? You can only cut costs so much

I don't know, I'm just saying that's probably what would happen if the agency needed ammo money.
 
Luckily,most city depts go all year w/o ever having a shooting incident. I would suggest 22lr conversion kits for most of their practicing with a little full caliber at the end of each session.:)
 
Since I'm retired, I wouldn't mind reloading for the various departments in my county without pay. They supply the components & I give them my time. I've been re loading for quite a while & everyone wha has shot my loads have given me favorable reviews. For me, I would feel as if I was giving something back to people who get very little positive recognition. Even when I was working full time, I always made a point to never take any payment for special jobs I might be called on by law enforcement.
 
I have seen police ranges carpeted with old brass. If the departments had their officers police up the brass for resale it would help offset ammo costs.
 
I find it very ironic that now police are talking about loading ammo for practice and requals. Back in the 70's I bought the reloading equipment from a small town police chief that had been directed by the town council to get rid of the old stuff as it was a liability the town did not wish to carry. I remember seeing my uncle load on it when he was on the force in the 50's. Now the talk is returning to that point. I don't think it will ever happen, too many lawyers and insurance requirements.
 
Turner, you are still talking about paying man hours to reload. Man hours cost money, likely more than simply buying the ammo. And the time they spend reloading their own on department equipment, they could be out policing.
 
However some police agencies have and do reload there own ammo.
who? this might not be such a bad thing. It could dispell the whole reloaded defense ammo thing.
Turner, you are still talking about paying man hours to reload. Man hours cost money
even if an officer makes $20/hr set him up on a good dillon at 1000/hr and that comes out to .02 extra a bullet. So with 9mm and paying top dollar for components you are still looking at roughly .11/ bullet. Still better than bulk ammo prices.
 
Our PA legislators are pushing for 'microstamped ammo'. All NON-stamped ammo will become illegal and need to be turned in to the Authorities. VIOLA! No more ammo problem for them for quite a while! And, for free!

It is good to be the Government.
 
1911tuner said:
Reloading is the answer. In order to address the liability cocerns...let each officer reload his own on the department's equipment.

Ahhhh...Logic!

Heh, nothing like good old personal responsibility.
 
Turner, you are still talking about paying man hours to reload. Man hours cost money, likely more than simply buying the ammo.

Nope. I'm talkin' about doin' it on their own time. I know lotsa cops who reload on their own time at home. The only difference is that their components and equipment is free.

And...It's Tuner. No "R" there. ;)

Heh, nothing like good old personal responsibility.

Yup.
 
Many years ago, it was common for Police Agencies to reload practice ammo, and let the jail inmates do it for the free labor.

Boy! They sure used to blow up a lot of guns though!

BTW: Communal reloading rooms are also a mass disaster!
BTDT in the Army.

You are lucky to even find the reloading press still bolted to the bench from one day to the next, let alone keeping dies, scales, and powder measures around.
And forget about trying to keep the primers, powder, and bullets in the same containers they came in!

rcmodel
 
RecoilRob said:
Our PA legislators are pushing for 'microstamped ammo'. All NON-stamped ammo will become illegal and need to be turned in to the Authorities. VIOLA! No more ammo problem for them for quite a while! And, for free!

It is good to be the Government.

You know, they could just repeat that process as needed, they'd have plenty. :evil:
'Due to privacy lawsuits, all stamped ammo must be turned in to the authorities.'
 
Many years ago, it was common for Police Agencies to reload practice ammo, and let the jail inmates do it for the free labor.

Boy! They sure used to blow up a lot of guns though!

Well...DUH!

Let's see how a logical approach woulda worked to omit that little problem...

Hmmm...Lemme seeeeee

Have the inmates size, bell, and prime the brass. Then let the cops drop the powder charges and seat the bullets.

Voila!
 
It would be pretty easy for them to reload for range use, and carry factory. Funny the rest of us can find ammo. Sounds like another PR campaign for a budget increase to me.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top