What if…

[Boom-stick]

This is what happens when yesterday's gangbangers grow up and have kids, and those kids have kids . . . each generation gets worse, until now we have what some shrinks have referred to as feral youth.

I've never heard them called feral before but that is true over here in a situation that is growing worse everyday.

There has been 3 (reported) attacks within a 5 min walk of my house in the past few months.
All 3 have recovered the same DNA, one resulted in the violent killing and abuse of a young model next to her front garden gate,
http://www.croydonguardian.co.uk/news/sallyannebowman/
the second girl was dragged under a bridge (not 20 yards from my office!!) and bitten on the neck and shoulders and the third girl was walking next to park when the guy run up to her, said "I'm Sorry" and proceeded to smash her face in with a piece of pipe, she survived, but the sad thing about that was, while she was screaming for help she could see folks in the surrounding houses turning their lights on, looking at her and going away again!!!!

After she had recovered, she actually knocked on the doors of the people that didn't help her to show them her scarred face.

These attacks have turned the community upsidedown, my wife won't go out afterdark alone and the police have interviewed all males in the surrounding areas, including myself, I even had them turn up on my doorstep with a warrant for a DNA sample

It is sad and fightening when we live in a country where we can not legally defend ourselves on the streets.

These situations are not hypothetical.

 

[V4Vendetta]

"Regardless of the age of these little monsters, a petite woman attacked by these vermin, if she ends up in court at all, is IMHO (and IANAL) almost certain to gain a jury's sympathy in any civilized jurisdiction."


The sad thing is, we aren't like that anymore . Look at Boomsticks's story of the neighbors who just turned & left the woman to be beaten to death. She may have survived, but the people who walked away, had no way of knowing that would happen.

 

[Hemicuda]

my 110# girlfriend, in that situation, had BETTER defend herself... her 4 kids (not mine, but i love 'em anyway) and I need her... we'll deal with any consequences TOGETHER, after she takes care of the initial problem!

 

[Dog Face GI]

What If?

I'm know lawyer, but have been a cop for 9 years in KY & as I understand it she would be justified provided the attack was still on going. If their running away then NO.

 

[Correia]

You guys are fixated on what the papers are going to say.

Screw the papers. You are worried about the investigators, prosecutor, judge, and jury.

I don't know your state laws, but here you would be fine.

Grevious bodily harm? Rape/assault/battery. Check.
-Ability? Yes.
-Opportunity? Yes.
-Immediacy? Yes.

Would a reasonable man/woman make those assumptions. Yes.

There you go.

On warning shots. I usually advise my students against them.
-If you are justified in shooting, you are justified in shooting.
-Handguns suck. So you will probably need as much ammo as you can get. If you're shooting a 5 shot snubby, your warning shot just used up 20% of your ammo supply.
-Bullets have to go somewhere. If fired upware at even a slight angle, the bullet will come down point first with great velocity. If you put it into the ground it might richochet.
-A shot is loud. You might not be experiencing auditory exclusion yet, and when you touch that gun off you have just given up a bunch of hearing, that it might be handy to have.

Now I'm not saying just because the gun comes out, means that you have to shoot, just that you need to be prepared to. I'm all in favor of verbal challenges, as long as you aren't giving up any tactical advantage. If the gun comes out and the bad guys run away, problem solved.

I'm with Alduro, in that I think CCW holders should carry pepper spray if possible. It is just another tool in the box that might come in handy. But in this particular scenario, where they are on top of you, I wouldn't advise it. I would go right to the gun and shoot anybody who doesn't immediatly cease hostile action.

 

[Jeff White]

If the situation calls for the use of deadly force then use deadly force. It's that simple.

You are just as dead if you are killed by a gang of pre-teens as you would be if you were killed by a 6'7", 350 pound gangbanger with a 7 page criminal history.

I came very close to shooting a 13 year old asian gangbanger one afternoon. It was shift change and I was taking the officer I was relieving home from work. A call came in about a suspicious group of customers at Pizza Hut which is out near the interstate. The manager called and said 5 young people had come in and ordered a small pizza and a pitcher of pepsi and were acting strange. He said he checked their car and it had Wisconson plates on the front and Minnesota plates on the back.

I told the dispatcher I'd drop the dayshift guy off at home and go check them out. Didn't make it another two blocks when the manager called 911 and reported that they had jumped up from the table and were ripping coin boxes out of the videogame machines with large screwdrivers and prybars.

I dropped all thought of taking the dayshift guy home and headed for Pizza Hut along with the other two evening shift officers. We arrived just as they were trying to make their escape by running out the fire door (right next to the video games). I bailed out of the car and headed around the West side of the building to cut them off and ran smack into one of them. As soon as he saw me, his hand went to his waistband inside the peacoat he was wearing. I drew my weapon (issued SW 5906) as I yelled at him to show me his hands. He hesitated for what seemed like an eternity, but couldn't have been more then a couple seconds before he came out of his coat empty handed. He had a long screwdriver in his waistband.

Turned out the boys were from a gang in LaCrosse WI and they had delivered some contraband to Atlanta and were stealing gas, food and cash to get back to LaCrosse. They had $1500 cash in the car, but according to the officer from LaCrosse PD it was an initiation ritual and they couldn't spend any of that money on expenses.

I felt bad about almost shooting a kid for a little bit, but looking over the photos they had with them of them posing with weapons and flashing gang signs to each other ended those feelings rather quickly.

If that boy had not followed instructions and removed his hand I would have shot him. I'm sure I probably would have been crucified in the media. But that thought never crossed my mind during the encounter.

Jeff

 

[Henry Bowman]

But in this particular scenario, where they are on top of you, I wouldn't advise it. I would go right to the gun and shoot anybody who doesn't immediatly cease hostile action.

Larry, I've met you and I think you could have 3 or 4 nine year olds on you and not even notice it. Now as for the 110 lb. wife, agreed.

Draw the gun with the attitude of being willing and ready to use it. If the hostilities don't cease and desist -- do not fire "warning" shots.

 

[crofrog]

You guys are fixated on what the papers are going to say.

Finally someone said it. You have to win the fight before you can even begin worring about what's going to happen afterwords.

 

[flouridebanana]

what if

Having been the victim of frequent gang rape as a small child, and being the parent of twin boys born with chemical imbalances, as well as social malasjustments, I suggest: A. Pepper spray? Pray it doesn't just push them over the edge into blind rage. Whereupon you will have to likely kill or be killed. B. Warning shot? Only if it hits meat. And pray it doesn't just push them over the edgse into blind rage. Whereupon you will likely have to kill or be killed. Then go straight to the cops, and the press; believe it or not, in my experience, the press is much more sympathetic to the victim.
Note I say this, knowing it could be my own kid catching the bullet, but I could easier live with that, than live with knowing my own kid killed another child, as one they have so nearly done in the past. I shudder, knowing how many kids there are out there like mine, whose parents haven't gone to every length as we have to civilize and chemically balance these kids.
With all the crack and ice babies growing up, it will only get worse.
Maybe I should change my name to "neveragain".

 

[flouridebanana]

what if

Having been the victim of frequent gang rape, by other children, as a small child, and being the parent of twin boys born with chemical imbalances, as well as social malasjustments, I suggest: A. Pepper spray? Pray it doesn't just push them over the edge into blind rage. Whereupon you will have to likely kill or be killed. B. Warning shot? Only if it hits meat. And pray it doesn't just push them over the edge into blind rage. Whereupon you will likely have to kill or be killed. Then go straight to the cops, and the press; believe it or not, in my experience, the press is much more sympathetic to the victim.
Note I say this, knowing it could be my own kid catching the bullet, but I could easier live with that, than live with knowing my own kid killed another child, as one they have so nearly done in the past. I shudder, knowing how many kids there are out there like mine, whose parents haven't gone to every length as we have to civilize and chemically balance these kids.
With all the crack and ice babies growing up, it will only get worse.
Maybe I should change my name to "neveragain".

 

[bigj8550]

In my part of the U.S. any warning shot is considered at least crimnial wrecklessness. Sometimes if there are bystander in the area then it is wreckless endangerment and possiabley more.
Sad isn't it. In my point of view. Anything I cannot handle or my wife can not handle in hand to hand calls for a firearm period. So Kick,Scream, Punch, Scratch. Then shoot.