What is a bad primer

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AJC1

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I have had more difficulty with Remington small pistol primers than all others combined. It may be that they have a different need that I'm not meeting but I have yet to figure that out. Recently I have dealt with three manufacturers. Federal has run flawless in spp and lpp. I have had zero failure to fire or had to hit them again. Cci which is my primary preference and I have used them all except lpm which I dont have a use for. I have had one failure in 223 which was loaded by my dad years ago and failed to fire this fall. Remmington primers have given me 5 ftf in the last 6 months. Its currently what I'm using and I had 1500. I'm down to 150 and I will pass on getting any more. So my question is what is a failure. 4 of the 5 took a second or third hit and worked. The fifth went bang when hit with a hammer. I took it appart looking for answers and found that I had not failed to powder the round. I believe I have a good process for powder and I was going to be pissed if I had screwed that up. 3.0 grains of tightgroup.
 

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I use Remington 1-1/2's for small, light cartridges in older revolvers. They're golden in some of my older .38S&W/Colt NP and .32S&W/L/Colt NP loads. I haven't had a FTF with a Remington. On some of those older guns with light hammers or old springs I do get FTF with CCI and Winchester but Federal and Remington "seem" more forgiving. I've found I do have to seat them until I feel them bottom-out.
 
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With Remington starting and stoping production and ramping up, trying to catch the ammo crazy. I feel their quality control is laxing and lowered. I heard of Remington factory ammo loaded bullets backwards (sound cool if intentional) Remington 870’s not even trying to match frame and stock. I would skip on Remington primers for a bit. Until they catch up.
 
I use Remington 1-1/2's for small, light cartridges in older revolvers. They're golden in some of my older .38S&W/Colt NP and .32S&W/L/Colt NP loads. I haven't had a FTF with a Remington. On some of those older guns with light hammers or old springs I do get FTF with CCI and Winchester but Federal and Remington "seem" more forgiving. I've found I do have to seat them until I feel them bottom-out.
I use the universal rcbs hand tool and send them to the bottom.
 
Maybe new production's not up to the old standards? :oops:

I think right now every one is running hard trying to meet demand, and because of this quality has slipped to some degree or another. And I think this carry's over to other things as well. Once things settle down quality should improve with primers, ammo, computer chips, etc....

chris
 
I think right now every one is running hard trying to meet demand, and because of this quality has slipped to some degree or another. And I think this carry's over to other things as well. Once things settle down quality should improve with primers, ammo, computer chips, etc....

chris
I got these before the buyout at the start of the big event. I was unprepared but reacted quick enough based on discussion with my father about the last shortage.
 
I went through 4000 of the 5 1/2s and didn't have any problem with any of them. They all went bang and I have spring kits in almost all my revolvers.
My 4 9mm pistols didn't have any trouble either.
I did have some 41 mags that didn't light up and found out that I didn't seat them deep enough to pre-load the primer.
I have over the years had some brass that the primer hole was to deep and the firing pin couldn't reach the primer to hit it hard enough to set it off.
Those cases got recycled.
I started buying Fiocchi primers after that and they are my favorite of all time. It seems to me there hardness is in between Fed and Win.
But good luck finding any of them.
You may have gotten some bad primers, the cake may have been cracked from seating them to hard and the anvil didn't get a good impact on it.
There may have been no cake at all in it.
There may be hard spots in the coil stock they punched the cups out of.
Remington primers never were my favorite, I used them for a while because they were all I could get at the time.
 
I've used Rem primers for decades alone with CCI, Win, and a few others. I have not had any problem with Rem that I can recall. Currently I only have the SR (7 1/2). Like with any primer if it goes off on the second attempt it was not fully seated to set the preload.
 
I've used Rem primers for decades alone with CCI, Win, and a few others. I have not had any problem with Rem that I can recall. Currently I only have the SR (7 1/2). Like with any primer if it goes off on the second attempt it was not fully seated to set the preload.
I wonder if there is a small height difference? My tool doesn't adjust for depth and the ccis give more resistance and I can see the anvil when I install them. I know there different, and wonder if they are shorter?
 
I never measured them for cup height on primers to see how consistent they are for height.
I don't have enough primer problems to make me start.
Measure the height of about 100 of them to see what the variation is. I only have winchester's and Fiocchi's at the moment but I could go measure some of them if your curious as to how the Remington's stack up.

I use an old press mounted Lee Auto Prime ll to do all the priming for those loads that I don't run on my LNL-AP.
I set the Auto Prime ll to top out on the stroke to put the primer at the correct seating depth but all brass is not the same.
So if I get deep primer pockets the primers will not be seated to pre-load the primer.
I usually over seat a little to get the deep pockets so they are all pre-loaded some amount.

I have to re-adjust the primer depth for the different calibers I load with this thing even though they all take the same small pistol primers.
That is a brass problem, not a primer problem.

But I've only had one time with the 41 mag, that I had to run them through twice to get them to go off and they weren't seated deep enough.
That was my fault.
My 9mm I load on my LNL-AP so far, all work when primed on there.
 
Not sure, then.
The unscientific problem is I changed primers and what I'm shooting them in. The carbine is new to me and the primers are new to the data set. It may also be the carbine. I am considering both as it's easy to blame the process but 50k rounds and then all the sudden an issue says check other factors first.
 
The unscientific problem is I changed primers and what I'm shooting them in. The carbine is new to me and the primers are new to the data set. It may also be the carbine. I am considering both as it's easy to blame the process but 50k rounds and then all the sudden an issue says check other factors first.
Well, as a former machinist and current programmer I can tell you every producer eventually sends bad product to distributors. And for the same reason, every assembler eventually makes a bad assembly. We aren’t any of us perfect. ;)

I kinda have to agree it’s in the seating process somewhere but it doesn’t sound like anything obvious. Maybe drop back to square one and try again from scratch?
 
I treasure rem 7 1/2 primers. I don't want any other remington products. Can't find them, can't get them. They're spec'd for freedom arms loads and I've used them exclusively for max 454 loads with zero issues. Haven't had any recent production but I'd trade 2 to 1 for any others if someone's willing to give a guy some 7.5s

No experience with any other rem primers.

I prefer cci or federal otherwise.
 
I have stock, factory springs in all of my handguns...over 60 years now of loading time on the bench...and I have never had a bad primer, never. That includes Remingtons in my early years, to CCI, Federal & Winchester as I've aged. IF...a big IF...if there is any secret to that success it's that I keep my guns, particularly the firing pin recess/channel/ejector star area clean and dry...particularly in autos, the the firing pin race needs to be clean....YMMv but this has worked well for me. Rod
 
Some observations. I've gone through a few thousand primers ea of Federal, CCI, Murom, Remington, and Winchester in the past 8 months. A combination of NOS and new production. Combination of small and large in each. All of this on new starline or armscor brass.

The most consistently easy to seat and perform are Federal, both NOS and NP. These have the softest cup as well. Zero FTF's with any federal pistol primer. No matter how net ninja'd a gun is with dumb trigger work, or how lightened a hammer might be....seems it will go bang with federals. Cons: tiny bit smaller, and once in a while they flip in the primer tube. I get 2 or 3 rounds per 1000 with federal with an upside down primer because of that. And we all hate that stupid box. More federal primers have hit the floor in my shop than any other brand, lol.

Remington: The have a slightly harder cup than Federal, but still softer than CCI. They seem to be generally good, and I don't get any flipped primers in the tubes. Every once in a while I get one that is harder to seat. Rarely, it seems that some super light weight DAO revolvers light strike these. Very very rare though, and my thought is that it correlates to the ones that are "hard to seat", but have no hard data to support that.

Murom (Russian), ok, oddly enough....these are flat out the most consistent and accurate primers I've used in large pistol. However, they are HARD to seat on new brass, real hard...and the cups are hard, waaaayyyy to hard. So while shooting strings of 45 Colt or 44 Mag out of big SA revolvers may result in undeniably better SD's when the only change is primers....I don't use them anymore. I have a much higher percentage of light strikes on these with any striker fired pistol (Glocks, Croation Glocks, etc), as high as 2/100. And DAO revolvers and SA revolvers with hammer/trigger work really have a high percentage of light strikes.

CCI: CCI are probably overall the most dependable primers. They seat well, they are the "right" size, consistent, they work perfectly in tubes and collaters, just all around easy to work with. The only con is that out of all the US primers, they seem to have the hardest cups. And while they are nowhere near the level of hardness of Russian (or any euro) primer, they still will on very very rare occasions cause a light strike on a very tiny minority of guns. All but one I know of personally had trigger/hammer work done, and I blame the net ninjas, not the primers. The one factory gun I know of that had issues was a Taurus titanium airweight 38 spl. I don't know if it was just the one gun, or if that particular model may have a problem with harder primers across the board.

Winchester: My least favorite US Primer. Just seem a bit inconsistent across the spectrum. I've always avoided them when possible, but will use them if I have too. They seem to go bang consistently, but they tend to have more issues with primer feed systems.
 
Remington: The have a slightly harder cup than Federal, but still softer than CCI. They seem to be generally good, and I don't get any flipped primers in the tubes. Every once in a while I get one that is harder to seat.
Maybe that's where @AJC1 ran into trouble? Only thing I can think of. I've never had problems with primers. I have had problems with some old guns whose springs were tired and couldn't be replaced because, well, they're old. I've also had problems - VERY rarely - with revolvers whose hammers were bobbed or springs were replaced for smoother pull. Only one or two and primer choice makes a difference with them.

Hope @AJC1 gets this figured out. It's a little puzzling.
 
Maybe that's where @AJC1 ran into trouble? Only thing I can think of. I've never had problems with primers. I have had problems with some old guns whose springs were tired and couldn't be replaced because, well, they're old. I've also had problems - VERY rarely - with revolvers whose hammers were bobbed or springs were replaced for smoother pull. Only one or two and primer choice makes a difference with them.

Hope @AJC1 gets this figured out. It's a little puzzling.
Well this marlin has jm on the barrel so it's no spring chicken. I did post a picture of the primer hit and it's nothing like the light hits I see on 223 ammo that are laying all over the range. It is slightly off center but I dont believe that to be world ending.
 
Well this marlin has jm on the barrel so it's no spring chicken. I did post a picture of the primer hit and it's nothing like the light hits I see on 223 ammo that are laying all over the range. It is slightly off center but I dont believe that to be world ending.
Nice, a "real" Marlin, lol. Those are tanks and drop hammer with authority...I would not suspect worn springs or such there, I don't know that anybody ever in history has worn out a JM stamped Marlin. I'd guess you had a couple that seated hard and didn't get all the way below flush. Even a perfect gun may not light that off....the energy is absorbed because the primer moves slightly as it seats the rest of the way. These will almost always go bang with the 2nd attempt.
 
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