DigitalWarrior
Member
I wanted to find out what people define a republic as. I am hoping to find out if "The People's Republic of Korea" is a republic. Is the United States? What are the essential differences?
What is a republic?
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Joe Demko
Member
Are you just going to keep opening threads until you get somebody to agree with you that the republic is failing?
BerettaNut92
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AFAIK a republic has elected officials to represent the people in gummint as opposed to a democracy which people represent themselves? Or am I mistaken? 
(cobwebs)
(cobwebs)
Thumper
Member
Copy/Paste
A government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law.
-Webster
YMMV.
A government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law.
-Webster
YMMV.
DigitalWarrior
Member
Golgo-13: I have not opened threads that ask the same question, to my knowlege, ever. I am offended that you think so little of me and my questions. Perhaps you did not read them.
I open different threads so that I can ask different questions, until I become illuminated. There is truth, If I can only ask the right questions.
1. I asked what the causes of the republic failing were and possible solutions (that serves practical function in my opinion). Find the cause, fix it.
2. I realized that not everyone would believe that it is failing, so I opened a thread to discuss whether it is failing and what the evidence is either way. Offers support or dissent to thread 1. Because I recieved a result that surprised me (most responders did not believe it was failing)I checked my assumptions. I saw that I assumed that I was using "Republic" in the same way that the responders used "Republic". I wanted to see if that was where my logical disconnect was happening so I opened this thread.
Do you still believe I would use that weak of a debate technique?
I open different threads so that I can ask different questions, until I become illuminated. There is truth, If I can only ask the right questions.
1. I asked what the causes of the republic failing were and possible solutions (that serves practical function in my opinion). Find the cause, fix it.
2. I realized that not everyone would believe that it is failing, so I opened a thread to discuss whether it is failing and what the evidence is either way. Offers support or dissent to thread 1. Because I recieved a result that surprised me (most responders did not believe it was failing)I checked my assumptions. I saw that I assumed that I was using "Republic" in the same way that the responders used "Republic". I wanted to see if that was where my logical disconnect was happening so I opened this thread.
Do you still believe I would use that weak of a debate technique?
DigitalWarrior
Member
Thanks Thumper.
If the majority of the population was intimdated or manipulated during the voting process, would it still be a republic. The people wouldn't have been disenfranchised, merely cajoled. Would that be the difference between the US and The peoples republic of korea?
Just trying to get straightened out.
If the majority of the population was intimdated or manipulated during the voting process, would it still be a republic. The people wouldn't have been disenfranchised, merely cajoled. Would that be the difference between the US and The peoples republic of korea?
Just trying to get straightened out.
In a republic
there is representative democracy, so that the leaders are chosen by the people and the laws are made by the elected leaders. However, the individual citizen has fundamental, natural rights which the government may not violate, AND THE PEOPLE CANNOT VOTE TO VIOLATE. These rights exist inherently in being a human. In this sense there is some absolute limit on what laws can be enacted, and what actions may be taken against any individual.
In a straight democracy, it's whatever the majority votes. They could vote to execute all red-headed people, and it would be done--nothing the redheads could do about it. What in theory makes America a republic, then, is the existence of inviolable civil rights belonging to individuals and not dependent in any way on the decisions of government or the votes of the people.
Your anxiety, which is reasonable, appears to arise from the fact that it is becoming allowable to abridge some individual rights under pressure from officials and voters. To that extent we are less a republic than we were or ought to be.
there is representative democracy, so that the leaders are chosen by the people and the laws are made by the elected leaders. However, the individual citizen has fundamental, natural rights which the government may not violate, AND THE PEOPLE CANNOT VOTE TO VIOLATE. These rights exist inherently in being a human. In this sense there is some absolute limit on what laws can be enacted, and what actions may be taken against any individual.
In a straight democracy, it's whatever the majority votes. They could vote to execute all red-headed people, and it would be done--nothing the redheads could do about it. What in theory makes America a republic, then, is the existence of inviolable civil rights belonging to individuals and not dependent in any way on the decisions of government or the votes of the people.
Your anxiety, which is reasonable, appears to arise from the fact that it is becoming allowable to abridge some individual rights under pressure from officials and voters. To that extent we are less a republic than we were or ought to be.
suijurisfreeman
Member
Khornet,
That's interesting, do you believe that this country was founded on those principles that you listed in your first paragraph? I do, just wondering what you think?
That's interesting, do you believe that this country was founded on those principles that you listed in your first paragraph? I do, just wondering what you think?
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
The People's Republic of Korea" is a republic in name only. It's really a dictatorship. It sports a few republic-esque trappings, but it's actually just another rotten, evil, malicious dictatorship.
Suijuris,
America wasn't founded on people who were 'sui juris', but they WERE 'sui generis'. Yuk Yuk.
The description I gave is, I think, fairly standard, and one I picked up somewhere, just can't remember where. And yes, I do believe it was part of the founding principles of this nation.
America wasn't founded on people who were 'sui juris', but they WERE 'sui generis'. Yuk Yuk.
The description I gave is, I think, fairly standard, and one I picked up somewhere, just can't remember where. And yes, I do believe it was part of the founding principles of this nation.
DigitalWarrior
Member
Standing Wolf, I am glad that you bring up republic-esque trappings, but being something else. So a name or a ritual is not central to what a thing is.
Perhaps North Korea is not a republic because the same person was "elected" over and over again. IIRC the United Soviet Socialist Republic had elections and leadership changes occasionally. Was the USSR a republic?
I tend to agree with khornet and suij (is that pronounced sewage? ).
While I do not believe this condition to exist yet, if a Constitutional Republic ignored it's Constitutional Limitations and had a citizenry incapable of reading the Constitution, would it still be a Constitutional Republic?
Also a funny though just occurred to me. First, I read the Constitution according to the definition I learned in a government regulated school. Then if I believe the government created a law which violates the contract that I signed with it, I goto the government (judicial) to see if it agrees with me that it violated my rights!
Since the judiciary is approved by congress (the law-making body), wouldn't they hessitate to accept someone who would just repeal all of their laws willy-nilly?
Perhaps North Korea is not a republic because the same person was "elected" over and over again. IIRC the United Soviet Socialist Republic had elections and leadership changes occasionally. Was the USSR a republic?
I tend to agree with khornet and suij (is that pronounced sewage?
). While I do not believe this condition to exist yet, if a Constitutional Republic ignored it's Constitutional Limitations and had a citizenry incapable of reading the Constitution, would it still be a Constitutional Republic?
Also a funny though just occurred to me. First, I read the Constitution according to the definition I learned in a government regulated school. Then if I believe the government created a law which violates the contract that I signed with it, I goto the government (judicial) to see if it agrees with me that it violated my rights!
Since the judiciary is approved by congress (the law-making body), wouldn't they hessitate to accept someone who would just repeal all of their laws willy-nilly?
Destructo6
Member
The people who elected the leaders of the former USSR and North Korea were not, in turn, elected by the general population. They were/are Communist Party (CP) members electing other CP members. To them, the Communist Party is "the people." Their false presumption to represent "the people" may, in their eyes, constitute a republic, but it does not and I think Livy would agree.
C.R.Sam
Moderator Emeritus
Democracy...
Two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch menu.
Republic...
Two wolves and an armed sheep ordering out.
Sam
Two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch menu.
Republic...
Two wolves and an armed sheep ordering out.
Sam
sensop
Member
Pretty much what khornet said.
Republic: Representative government (professional politicians).
Democracy: Majority rules (mob rules; minority rights and basic rights protected by majority of voters). I don't want to live there. I am reminded that "legal" doesn't make something right. Neither does "Majority vote" make it right, it just makes it legal.
Neither one is perfect, but the fad-following, emotional politics and revisionism we've seen the last few years should put the quietus on anyone's desire for a "democracy". A republic can take a while to change direction on important issues and that can be a good thing.
I dislike seeing change take place at the peak of the swell of public opinion. Time. We need time for change to take place. Change in law should be permanent change, not sound bit, spin-driven change, like the so-called assault weapon ban. That, IMHO, is an example of mob rule making inroads to our republic and it's legislative processes. The Liberal Socialists won that battle, not because the Conservatives on RKBA didn't stand on principle, but not ENOUGH of them stood on principle and because the LS have no shame when it comes to lying in public. Lie huge, lie often and lie loud.
Pardon the mini-rant.
Republic: Representative government (professional politicians).
Democracy: Majority rules (mob rules; minority rights and basic rights protected by majority of voters). I don't want to live there. I am reminded that "legal" doesn't make something right. Neither does "Majority vote" make it right, it just makes it legal.
Neither one is perfect, but the fad-following, emotional politics and revisionism we've seen the last few years should put the quietus on anyone's desire for a "democracy". A republic can take a while to change direction on important issues and that can be a good thing.
I dislike seeing change take place at the peak of the swell of public opinion. Time. We need time for change to take place. Change in law should be permanent change, not sound bit, spin-driven change, like the so-called assault weapon ban. That, IMHO, is an example of mob rule making inroads to our republic and it's legislative processes. The Liberal Socialists won that battle, not because the Conservatives on RKBA didn't stand on principle, but not ENOUGH of them stood on principle and because the LS have no shame when it comes to lying in public. Lie huge, lie often and lie loud.
Pardon the mini-rant.
RON in PA
Member
Seems to me that the original meaning of "republic" was to indicate a government that was not ruled by a king and had nothing to do with whether or not the government was a democracy. The Soviet Union was a republic, but not very democratic. The United Kingdom is a monarchy, not a republic and a representative democracy(in spite of the view of most members of this board that is some socialist goverment). As for the USA, we are a republic and a representative democracy.
Destructo6
Member
Republics combine autocracy, oligarchy, and democracy into a whole that is more than the sum of its parts.
executive = kingship/autocracy
congress = oligarchy
general election of congressional reps = democracy
Republics give a stability not found in exclusive forms of the three.
executive = kingship/autocracy
congress = oligarchy
general election of congressional reps = democracy
Republics give a stability not found in exclusive forms of the three.
grampster
Member
Sensop, nice to see you pop up again. with some good thoughts.
CR Sam, the sheep is probably doing the ordering too.
Any body can call any form of government a Republic. Especially if that anybody has all the guns.
Thumper, How can I get Shiner Bock in Michigan.
Suij=pronounced sewage? sprayed my coffee all over my keyboard, IT wizards are gonna be mad at me.......again.
grampster
with some good thoughts.CR Sam, the sheep is probably doing the ordering too.
Any body can call any form of government a Republic. Especially if that anybody has all the guns.
Thumper, How can I get Shiner Bock in Michigan.
Suij=pronounced sewage? sprayed my coffee all over my keyboard, IT wizards are gonna be mad at me.......again.
grampster
BerettaNut92
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To nitpick there is:
Republic of Korea : South Korea, pretty sniper girls, allies, good times, great food, Daewoo rifles, etc.
Democratic People's Republic of Korea : North Korea, cult in the form of a dictatorship, lots of targets, etc.
Republic of Korea : South Korea, pretty sniper girls, allies, good times, great food, Daewoo rifles, etc.
Democratic People's Republic of Korea : North Korea, cult in the form of a dictatorship, lots of targets, etc.
DigitalWarrior
Member
I guess we don't know what a republic is after all. There is more varience than I would have expected for such an important subject.
Skunk: I am surprised what a difference people and democracy make in seperating north and south. I guess I am anti-people anti-democracy now. That would be hard to explain to the bliss-ninnies where we live in one sentence or less.
Skunk: I am surprised what a difference people and democracy make in seperating north and south. I guess I am anti-people anti-democracy now. That would be hard to explain to the bliss-ninnies where we live in one sentence or less.
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