What is Going on With Randy Weaver?

[madkiwi]

I think you guys have the story a little wrong.

I was under the impression that Randy was charged with violating the NFA- but not by shortening the barrels. Everyone and their mother, including non-firearms types, knows that short barreled shotguns are illegal, so did Randy. He did not shorten the barrel under the minimum. He was asked to shorten the stock (length of pull adjustment) which he did. He didn't realize that by doing so he made the total shotgun length less than the federal minimum length (which I think is 26" IIRC).

It was a pure setup- he was presented with a firearm that was barely long enough to begin with and asked to shorten the shoulder stock.

As to why he did it? If being ignorant but accomodating makes him a criminal, well, you could probably entrap more than a few hillbillies that way.

madkiwi

 

[buzz_knox]

My understanding of the deputy's testimony is that Deagan had an M16, and the deputy with him had a suppressed MP-5, and Deagan shot the kid in the back with a 5.56/223 round as he was heading towards the house. The feds initially claimed that Weaver shot his own son, but the round didn't match the Mini-14 Weaver was using.

 

[Atticus]

"There's no difference between a "separatist" and a "racist" in Weaver's case. He was a separatist because he was a racist."

Couldn't the same be said about many of the people who choose to live on the South side of Chicago - Watts - East St.Louis? A preferrence to be "left alone" and/or to live with your own kind, may sound un-pc, or even racist, but it is the preference of milllions and is not a crime. Except for Weaver that is. I met him last year. I know you can't judge a book by it's cover, but he seemed like a pretty decent guy to me. And from what I've read about Ruby Rudge, nearly every court in the land sided with the Weavers.

 

[cordex]

On the shooting of Sammy Weaver ...
The gov't report says:

(2) Physical Evidence

An inventory of the marshals' ammunition taken on the early morning of August 22 showed that Hunt, Norris, and Thomas did not fire their weapons during the incident. Roderick fired one shot from an M16 rifle. Cooper fired six shots form the .9mm weapon. Degan's weapon had been fired seven times.[FN427] This appears to be inconsistent with Harris' claim that there was an "explosion of gunfire" from the marshals.[FN428] We believe that the marshals exercised restraint as to the number of shots discharged by the Weavers and Harris.[FN429]

Sammy Weaver was struck twice in the exchange of gunfire. One round hit him in the right arm, near the elbow, traveling from front to back. This bullet also shattered the stock of his rifle. The second and fatal shot hit the boy in the back and passed through his body, exiting after a slight track from left to right.[FN430]

c. The Shooting of Sammy Weaver

Dr. Charles R. Lindholm, who performed the autopsy on Sammy Weaver, could not offer an opinion on the type of bullet which wounded Sammy's arm. Dr. Lindholm reported that the fatal back/chest wound was "indicative of a low velocity round." he did not believe that it was caused by a .223 caliber bullet and thought that the wound "would be more consistent with that of a 9 millimeter round."[FN432]

Dr. Martin L. Fackler testified at trial for the prosecution as an expert in "wound ballistics." Dr. Fackler concluded that the fatal wound was caused by a .9mm bullet.[FN433] Dr. Fackler believed the bullet that caused the fatal wound was similar to the silver tipped bullets used in Cooper's weapon.[FN434]

Two .9mm firearms were at or near the "Y": Randy Weaver had a .9mm pistol; Cooper had been assigned a .9mm "suppressed" semi-automatic weapon. Weaver claims to have fired his weapon three or four times;[FN435] Cooper's was fired six times. Harris reported that he heard the shot that killed Sammy.[FN436]

Degan's M16 rifle fires a .223 caliber round. None of the marshals saw Degan discharge his weapon, though his gun was fired seven times. Cooper said that he did not fire Degan's weapon after he retrieved it.[FN437] Dr. Fackler testified that Degan could have fired his weapon after he had been shot in the chest by Harris, although his accuracy would have been impaired.[FN438] However, Fackler did not believe that Degan's M16 caused the fatal injury, but thought it was possible that the weapon could have caused the wound to Sammy's arm. [FN439]

Cooper and Roderick last saw Sammy run out of view up the trail. The location where Harris found Sammy's body is unknown because the Weavers moved the body.

Although it is not our intention to speculate, the evidence, though not conclusive, certainly suggests that the shot that killed Sammy came from Cooper's .9mm weapon. We have found no evidence that Cooper, or any of the marshals, intentionally sought to kill or injure Sammy Weaver.

Cooper said that he purposely fired three shots at Harris, after Harris shot Degan and appeared to be preparing to fire at Degan again. Cooper was convinced that he wounded or killed Harris, who dropped to the ground "like a sack of potatoes."[FN440] Actually, Cooper missed Harris, who disappeared out of view into the woods along the trail. Cooper then wheeled his weapon toward Sammy and took aim, but did not fire.[FN441] Cooper next fired a second three round burst, in the direction from which he had received fire, as cover in an effort to reach Degan. He said this burst was not directed at a specific target. It is possible that Sammy may have been mortally wounded at that time.

Sammy Weaver was shot during a firefight in which he was a participant. There is no proof, and we do not conclude, that Cooper intentionally aimed the fatal shot at Sammy Weaver. Indeed, the record demonstrates that the marshals went to great lengths in preparing for their mission to avoid endangering the Weaver children.

Perhaps it is nothing more than coincidence, but it sure seems that in this particular event, there was some pretty poor aimed fire on the part of some highly trained federal agents, and some oustandingly accurate "cover fire" and misses by the same guys. Just a thought.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"He was a fruitcake racist extremist."

I'm not really sure that's accurate.

Racist, yes, probably.

Fruitcake? Who knows.

Extremist? I don't think that is applicable. Weaver was an avowed sepratist, believing that the races should live apart. There are blacks who are preaching the same mantra.

I don't believe that Weaver was associated with any of the groups or organizations that truly were extremist, those that promoted violence against other races for the protection of the White race.

 

[JohnBT]

"Dr. Fackler concluded that the fatal wound was caused by a .9mm bullet."

Anybody else seen one of those 9/10th mm bullets?

John

 

[willyjixx]

Madkiwi:

got a link to where you found that? thats interesting!

i myself even if i wanted it done would rather have a gunsmith trim down a barrell than do it myself. why? sure i could hack saw it.........key word HACK!

id rather have a pro do it or at least a smith who will do it properly an recut choke threads or any other thing that would need to be done. (retap a front site)

was Weaver a gun smith? even just a kitchen table one?
and how did the FBI know that? to many questions unanswered

 

[femoralis]

He cut the barrel down considerably of a couple of shotguns (I don't remember the lenght- maybe to about 10-12 inches) and sold them to an informant who represented himself as a gun dealer to motorcycle gangs. He did not just cut down the stock, nor did he cut them to 17 or so inches. He thought evil Jews controlled the government (the "Zionist Occupation Government" or something similar). The poor guy is indeed a fruitcake.

 

[Intune]

psst... it was the sniper-cat in the window not the feds who gunned that boy down... don't tell anyone but i've SEEN them in pictures.


for 87226.58 The green marble is clear. I repeat, the green marble is clear. ...---..., ...---...

 

[Orthonym]

May I try to clarify here?

Weaver was suspected of being connected to the Aryan Nation . The Aryan Brotherhood is slightly different, being a prison gang for(ostensibly, and I mostly believe it) mutual defense of white guys against being sodomized by big black guys. Or so Ken Hamblin has it.

 

[joshlm]

i would like to know from those people calling him a racist what guidlines are used to determine this. and also what bearring that would have on the insident in question. I believe, that as long as sepratist or anyone else for that matter is not breaking the law they have a right in our free country to say whatever they want and express any political views they might have. No one has to agree with them but they have just as much a right as the rest of us. perhapes instead of calling people names that have differing views than our own we should listen to them and then make an informed decision. perhapes if all races would take some pride in them selves and quite trying to force intigration on everyone we as people could live peacefully in the same country. it is time that everyone in this country take some responsibility for there own actions regardless of their race, age, sex, or any other of the excuses we as a society have started to use for people whom seem to believe that society, for some reasone owes them something. that they should be excused from their actions, or lack their of because, of past wrongs that were inflicted on them. this is a american problem and is widespread in all races in this country.

 

[LoneStranger]

Just to contribute more to this interesting conversation. I asked Randy Weaver why he did not just hand the hacksaw to the informant and tell him to saw away. His reply was that the informant was a total screwup who would have probably sawn his own fingers off. (Actually that is not a correct qoute as the language used would result in the elimination of my posting priveleges.)

I was under the misconception(?) that while the FBI could not prove who had shoot Sammy Weaver, lack of bullets you know, the same could also be said for Marshall Degan.

Yes, I understand that the Marshalls swore that Harris did it but they could not provide unassailabe evidence for their story.

Also note that Gary Spence pointed out in his book that a very good case could be made for Marshall Degan going down due to friendly fire from the Marshall behind him.

What is the truth? Damfino! But you would think that agents who are trained and practiced would not allow themselves to be put in this position.

 

[brownie0486]

Putting yourself in a position to take one from friendly fire happens quite often in the military under combat conditions as well.

Particularly so for those who have the training and not much practical experience under fire.

It's a fact of life that all the training pretty much goes out the window the first couple of times you are looking into the face of the enemy under fire.

Brownie

 

[TallPine]

But you would think that agents who are trained and practiced would not allow themselves to be put in this position.

Like maybe they could have just waited until he went to town sometime ...?

 

[Quartus]

That would have taken all the FUN out of it, Tallpine!


Waco, too.

 

[CWL]

What I've always wondered about R. Weaver is that he was a former Vietnam-era Green Beret. Wasn't he carefully screened since he has a very extreme view of the world and the place of pureblood whites v. the rest of the world? Kinda seems outta place to work with indigenies -or did he just want to kill communists?

Also his former CO Bo Gritz (who had been an Operator most of his life and speaks Chinese and Swahili) also shares many of Randy's views. He molded the minds of generations of Operators.

Special Forces motto: "De Oppresso Liber" (To Free the Oppressed). Kinda goes against their views don't it?

(Just because I despise what our government did to him and his family doesn't mean that I can't also despise Randy Weaver himself.)

 

[Tamara]

Interestingly, the Feds initially claimed that Harris had accidentally shot Sammy Weaver.

They retracted the point when it was pointed out that Harris had none of Sherriff Ricochet Rabbit's U-Turn bullets in his magazine.

I believe, that as long as sepratist or anyone else for that matter is not breaking the law they have a right in our free country to say whatever they want and express any political views they might have. No one has to agree with them but they have just as much a right as the rest of us.

I could swear I said that in my post.

Like a friend once said: "Since when is living in the boonies and not liking folks that don't look like you a federal crime?"

 

[Orthonym]

Steve Sailer's definition of "Race":

A race is a big extended family which is more or less inbred. Mr. Sailer has a very interesting site at www.isteve.com.

Do people vary individually? Yes.

Do groups of people vary from other groups of people statistically? Yes.

Are the above grounds for murdering people, or even being rude to them?

NO!

 

[12-34hom]

Randy Weaver is and always will be a gutless punk and coward.

On the bright side, he could also be considered the" Dairy Queen Outlaw " of white supremists.

But alas, there are those that will always carry the torch for poor Randy.... sniffle.

They are just as pathetic as he is.

12-34hom.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

wow so if i wanna move to the far reagions of america to escape idiot im a racist seperatist?

Look up non sequitur right after you learn what the shift key is for.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

Extremist? I don't think that is applicable. Weaver was an avowed sepratist, believing that the races should live apart.

And to his eternal credit he chose to live apart from practically everyone on the planet. I think he should be free to do so.

But I do think that people that choose to/not to associate with fellow human beings based solely on skin pigment are extremist fruitcake racists.

There are blacks who are preaching the same mantra.

Cheap thrill.

Fruitcake? Who knows.

You're welcome to disagree, I think that people that hold beliefs like his are fruitcakes.

I don't believe that Weaver was associated with any of the groups or organizations that truly were extremist, those that promoted violence against other races for the protection of the White race.

Find one place where I said he did.

 

[Tamara]

12-34hom,

Randy Weaver is and always will be a gutless punk and coward.

...

But alas, there are those that will always carry the torch for poor Randy.... sniffle.

They are just as pathetic as he is.

Even "gutless punks and cowards" can have their families unjustly murdered by federal agents recklessly overstepping their legal authority.

Most sincerely,
Pathetic Tam

 

[Justin]

i would like to know from those people calling him a racist what guidlines are used to determine this. and also what bearring that would have on the insident (sic) in question.

rac·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rszm)
n.
1.The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2.Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

Definition taken from dictionary.com. (I often find it perplexing that in this day and age of the information superhighway that people continue to debate the definitions of words when a dictionary is but a url away.)

Now, bearing in mind the above definition, and hence guideline for what constitutes racism, I think we can unequivocably state that Randy Weaver is indeed a racist.

Now, having said that, even racist idiot nutbags like Weaver have a right to live their life as they see fit, so long as they aren't harming anyone.

I find it quite offensive that the feds saw fit to waste my money on a guy who, idiot though he is, had not attacked anyone.

On top of that, the feds did a fantastic job of justifying the rantings of every tinfoil conspiracy theorist in the country, and it just really rankles me that so many people consider the guy some sort of hero.

He's not.
He's an idiot and a loser who should have known when to call a lawyer.
Same goes for the feds.
They were a bunch of morons in handling a situation that never should have arisen in the first place.

 

[gunsmith]

lets not beat each other up over R Weaver

I don't think anyone here would shoot a boy
and his dog.
especially when he is walking his dog
on his dads land in the middle of nowhere....
unless they is a grey or a reptillian from planet Gore/Clinton

 

[PDshooter]

Meet Randy at the Indy Gun show a few weeks ago. He was selling his book.
We chated for at least 10min, He wasn't no more goofy then anybody else there!