what is my 45-70?

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According to Chuck Hawks...

According to an e-mail from Dudley McGarity, the Apex is safe for use with mid-level .45-70 +P loads of the type suitable for Marlin lever action rifles. These are usually defined as not exceeding 40,000 CUP MAP. (Note: It is not intended for use with the top level of .45-70 loads, which generate MAP's in the 50,000 CUP range and are for use in single shot Ruger No. 1 and Browning/Winchester High Wall falling block rifles ONLY.) However, in our experience, SAAMI standardized loads are entirely sufficient in the .45-70 and +P loads are simply not necessary.
 
so pretty much stay within Hodgdons lever action and trap door recommendations and don't use modern rifle data that goes above 40,000?
 
Read the manual. Not that it'll help. Only mentions that using 'milsurp' ammo in a .223 or .308 voids the warrantee. New one that. Nothing at all about hand loads.
However, a single shot break action is not as strong as a lever or modern action. You really do not want to fire loads for either of those out of a 7 pound rifle anyway.
http://www.cva.com/rifle-and-muzzleloader-owners-manuals.php
 
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Sunray said:
Read the manual. Not that it'll help. Only mentions that using 'milsurp' ammo in a .223 or .308 voids the warrantee. New one that. Nothing at all about hand loads.
However, a single shot break action is not a strong as a lever or modern action. You really do not want to fire loads for either of those out of a 7 pound rifle anyway.
http://www.cva.com/rifle-and-muzzleloader-owners-manuals.php
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can you guys be a little more specific? im lost.

whats the weight of the rifle have to do with reloads?
 
I emailed Hodgdons and they replied with check with CVA to be sure but they would say use trap door data. I emailed CVA to be sure. Ive always wanted a lever action marlin. I just might end up with one.

now if I use factory 325gr bullets at 2505fps than how do I classify under trap door data?
 
i can say my ruger #3 with heavy loads is not a pleasent experence to shoot. and not needed in 90 percent of my hunting, only for bear do i shoot 400gr bullets at 1800 fps and they will move you. if you shoot 325,s at 2505 out of a trapdoor you can classify it junk and you may need a eye patch or two. eastbank.
 

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eastbank said:
i can say my ruger #3 with heavy loads is not a pleasent experence to shoot. and not needed in 90 percent of my hunting, only for bear do i shoot 400gr bullets at 1800 fps and they will move you. if you shoot 325,s at 2505 out of a trapdoor you can classify it junk and you may need a eye patch or two. eastbank.
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when I looked on hornady website for fps at muzzle of the lever evolution round it shows 2050fps at the muzzle. that's cookin for a round that big IMO. I figured if I shoot those out of my cva than I would be okay with something in that range from a handload.
 
Hornady also makes a 250 grain flex tip bullet in .458 diameter. I haven't seen load data, but you might find something that gets the velocity you want without the pressure and recoil. 250 grains is light for a .45 cal rifle bullet, but whitetail aren't tanks.
 
Color me crazy, but I don't think that rifle is restricted to the loads for the non-nitro trapdoor.

SAAMI spec for .45-70 is 28KPSI. That's what the Hornady 325gr. load is loaded to. I think it's VERY unlikely that CVA has produced a rifle that can't handle the SAAMI spec for the cartridge stamped on the barrel. Absent a very clear warning, that a would be a liability disaster.

I would load to 28KPSI, no more. And I would avoid anything commercial labeled "+P".
 
now if I use factory 325gr bullets at 2505fps than how do I classify under trap door data?
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Good lord mate, this can get you maimed. Way too aggressive for a trap door. Where did you get this idea and what published data are you looking at? If you could stuff the case with that much powder you still would not approach 2500 fps, not even with a lighter 300 grain bullet.

With 325 grain bullets, Trap door velocities will range from 1100-1400 max 1500 fps with that size bullet. Lever actions will get about 1900 max and Ruger #1 actions will go 2000-2100 max with a 325 grain bullet.
 
Guys,
I'm not saying the OP isn't recoil sensitive, but he's 6'6" and 300 lbs. He's asking what the rifle is capable of handling as far as levels. Trapdoor, Modern Lever, Ruger #1 or #3.

Ohihunter,
I do have to agree with the other posters here about what is and is not needed. And I'll add...If you're wanting to push the envelope and load upper levels, use a monolithic or other very well constructed bullet. That FTX is going to destroy a lot of tissue at 2500+fps. Read "tissue" as meat.
 
I have loaded my break-action H&R Buffalo Classic to modern lever action levels, and then some. No issues whatsoever. Comments about recoil are certainly true though.

Any modern 45-70 should be able to handle "modern 45-70" load data. Do it the right way though, and work your way up to the levels that you want.

CVA offers the same gun chambered in .444 Marlin which is much higher pressure than the 45-70. You will be fine with modern pressure loads.

Avoid "Ruger only" loads.
 
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Just a note on the reason you may not want to push the envelope too far into the +P region. It has to do with the durability of the shooter, not of the rifle. I have a friend who used to shoot a Marlin 1895 with heavy +P loads. The Marlin 1895 is a heavier rifle.

The reason he used to shoot it is that it resulted in two detached retinas and he can't shoot anything now.
 
Dr T said:
Just a note on the reason you may not want to push the envelope too far into the +P region. It has to do with the durability of the shooter, not of the rifle. I have a friend who used to shoot a Marlin 1895 with heavy +P loads. The Marlin 1895 is a heavier rifle.

The reason he used to shoot it is that it resulted in two detached retinas and he can't shoot anything now.
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I always forget that detached retinas are a potential consequence of heavy recoil.
 
au_prospector said:
With 325 grain bullets, Trap door velocities will range from 1100-1400 max 1500 fps with that size bullet. Lever actions will get about 1900 max and Ruger #1 actions will go 2000-2100 max with a 325 grain bullet.
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Not true - the factory Hornady load does over 2000 ft/s with that bullet within the 28KPSI SAAMI max.

With a Ruger #1, using the short Hornady cases, it looks like about 2250-2300 is the max. That's with a 55KPSI max. You can probably go hotter, but there's no reason - just buy a .458WM #1 Tropical instead.
 
au prospector,
Your information is incorrect.
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I pulled my information from published loads located in the Lyman's #49. If my statements were incorrect, then the publication of Lymans is incorrect. I actually take Lyman's #49 as a reputable source.

I guess your mileage may vary.
 
three reasons why very heavy loads may not be for you. one, very hard on the shooter, two very hard on the scope and mounts and three may not be the most accurett. learn your gun and drop at the ranges you shoot-hunt, i shoot a pedersoli sharps 74 target rifle to 800 yards and the drop is in yards,not feet over the 800 yards. the bullet is a 525gr postol at 1400fps. use the 45-70 for what it is and not a magnum and it will get the job on any thing you may hunt in north america. eastbank.
 
au_prospector said:
I pulled my information from published loads located in the Lyman's #49. If my statements were incorrect, then the publication of Lymans is incorrect. I actually take Lyman's #49 as a reputable source.

I guess your mileage may vary.
Click to expand...

What do they have for max pressure in PSI for the #1? That will tell you how conservative they're being. 55KPSI is a very cautious max for the #1 - with the .458WM they handle more than 60KPSI, and that has a bigger case head.

Cast bullet data is often extremely conservative for various reasons.
 
Your thinking isn't wrong. You can load to the exact same pressure level as that ammo and be fine.
 
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