what is my 45-70?

[Llama Bob]

I agree that the case capacity tracks OAL, not case length. The potential issues arise around bullet seating and crimping. You'd really like the case mouth to fall at the crimp groove/cannelure and crimp into it, especially on lever guns where bullet setback in the magazine is a safety issue. I'm not saying that other combinations than the one I suggested aren't possible - just that you want to be careful that whatever comes off your press makes sense. Measure twice, cut once.

I don't like the idea of loading FTX bullets in 2.1" cases at 2.55" or less OAL. That puts the case mouth up on the tapered part of the bullet, which is IMO not good for stopping setback, and thus might not be safe in lever rifles. It would also work the brass something fierce. The reloading manuals seems to consistently agree with me on this.

 

[fireman 9731]

The issue with the different brass lengths is crimping. Once your dies are adjusted for one length, you cant properly crimp the shorter or longer brass without an adjustment. Its not a problem as long as you adjust your dies for whatever length brass and bullet you are working with.

And if there has ever been a single variable that affected the consistency of my loads, it was a good, uniform crimp!

 

[BigBore44]

Llama Bob,
I'm not saying you are wrong. Let me look when I get home to make sure I'm right. Because something seems amiss with the FTX in the FL. Will be an hour or so. Will make any corrections needed. Sure hope I'm not wrong about this. But it does happen.

 

[Llama Bob]

Cool - let me know what you find. I'll take some measurements tonight as well if I have time, although I may not as I have a church meeting.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Or simply take a magic marker and color the primer or head stamp. No need for different brass when a $0.99 marker will do the job. And I'll add, I've never found the need to separate LeverEver brass from FL brass unless I'm loading Max and I mean Max loads. Load to the COL you always do and go. I'm sure some will say don't and that's fine. But I load 325 flex tips in FL brass. And 405's in LeverEver brass. Zero issues. Think about it. If you load to the same COL, the capacity inside the case stays constant.

Yes, you and Varminterror are quite correct, there are many ways for the reloader to keep them straight and recognized. When the concern is should another party get into your ammunition supply it quickly becomes a matter of risk tolerance.

(note to mods- I apologize for the thread drift and will cease immediately.)

 

[Llama Bob]

OK, I get the "dry labber" award for not actual measuring a real Hornady factory load When I did, I learned some things.

OAL was 2.575 with very gentle pressure on the rubber tip. The cases seem to measure in the 2.035 vicinity unfired although that's not a perfect measurement. Hornady crimps at the front edge of the canelure. That make the bullet a nominal 0.540 from cannelure to tip. Visually inspecting the round, I don't think it would be good to crimp any farther forward on the bullet than that - you'd still be on the shank for about another 0.04, but past the front edge of the cannelure. It's interesting that Hornady loads .025 longer than SAAMI dimensions, but if you like the factory load then no harm no foul. Here's how I would update the load with the new information:

Bullet: Hornady 325 FTX (no substitutions)
OAL: 2.575"
Case: 2.035" Hornady Leverevolution case (or commercial case trimmed to 2.035"). Note you need to check your expander and seating/crimp dies to make sure they work with the short case, but most do. Hornady also sells custom dies for these cases.
Powder: H322
Primer: LR
Barrel length for velocity #s: 24" (off the CVA website)
Starting load: 44 grains
Expected starting velocity: 1668 ft/s at the muzzle
Max load: 49 grains
Max velocity: 1862 ft/s
Max pressure: 27.4KPSI

Loading longer buys you a bit more velocity at the same pressure and more importantly everything should line up right. My previous version of the load would have been OKish, but the crimp would miss the cannelure. It also goes to show how relatively small changes in the recipe can make bigger changes in the amount of powder needed. That's why using velocity as your pressure measure is such a good idea.

Given those measurements, I still don't like the idea of a 2.1" case with that bullet, even with OAL being .025" over. I'm pretty sure if 2.1" was OK, Hornady would have used them and avoided having to have two different sizes in the chain.

 

[Dr T]

I do not recall seeing this addressed in the posting frenzy preceding the migration, but the OP did inquire what the weight of the rifle has to do with felt recoil.

Felt recoil varies from person to person and with stock design, so most people rely on a calculation of free recoil. In simplistic terms, free recoil is proportional to bullet and powder weight in grains and inversely proportional to the weight of the gun.

To get an idea of how these work in practice, there is a recoil calculator located at http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp .