What is Pre '64
- Thread starter retgarr
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Gator
Member
Winchester redesigned the Model 70! A sad, sad day in American firearms history. The new rifles included several cost cutting changes in their manufacture. The biggest one was the change from controlled round feed to push feed...riflemen never forgave Winchester for that. 
theken206
Member
look at a mauser action and look at a modern model 70 action and see the diffrence.
my dads father was a part time gunsmith and "bug holed" a pre 64 in
.270, glass piller beds{mauser or controlled round feed being one of the hardest to glass pillar bed} ect ect ect.
my moms pawned it back in the day for 150 bucks.
my dads father was a part time gunsmith and "bug holed" a pre 64 in
.270, glass piller beds{mauser or controlled round feed being one of the hardest to glass pillar bed} ect ect ect.
my moms pawned it back in the day for 150 bucks.
jr_roosa
Member
Did they screw up the Model 94 in '64 too? I keep calling mine a "pre-'64" but I don't really know when they changed to cheaper parts.
-J.
-J.
theken206
Member
no as far as I know that refers to model 70s but i could totally be mistaken
MMCSRET
Member
Winchester streamlined all models in production to one degree or another in 63,64,65 time period. IMHO some of the changes were very good changes. I much favor the push feed M70 as far as smooth bolt movement and feeding out of the magazine goes, the only time controlled feed is required is if you are holding the rifle 90 degrees or so off vertical.
theken206
Member
well there ya go
YES. They changed a lot. Post 64 94's cannot be reblued without first being plated to accept bluing. THere were many changes to the model 94. None were more drastic than the model 70 aside from the models that were dropped completely. If you hold a pre 64 and post 64 model 94 side by side you'd see the differences easily. Pre 64 guns of any model were basically hand built like a custom gun would be today. Even the smallest pieces were machined from bar stock. THe stocks were hand checkered rather than stamped like post 64 guns.
The post 64 model 94's are not nearly as despised as the model 70's but they are still not very sought after by Winchester collectors.
cmb3366
Member
Note the long 'claw' extractor
The top bolt is a new classic series M70, the bottom is a Pre-64. After 1964, and before the classic series, Winchester basically mimiced the remington 700, and made a cheap push feed rifle, that was a decent gun in its own right (and actually quite nice in XTR dress imo), but they made the mistake of sticking the model 70 name on it. Hunters and shooters could see without even handling the rifles that they were not of the same quality or build, and so their reputation suffered.
Think of it as what would happen if Chevy discontinued the Corvette we all know, and next year introduced a copy of the Ford Taurus with the Corvette name on it. Decent car, but it pales in comparison.
RevolvingCylinder
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Not true. I've tried to make the push-feeds malfunction by using them upside down, tilting them in various directions, shaking them, jarring them, and anything else I could think of and they won't malfunction. I don't know where this started but I could never make it happen.
MMCSRET
Member
Revolvingcylinder: I agree, I own and use several push feed model 70's and savages and others and they function flawlessly, that said, the upside down working of the action is the easiest and most common exhibitive comparison I could use to describe the differences to the uninitiated.
Vern Humphrey
Member
The claw extractor has two primary advantages. First of all, it is rugged and reliable. Secondly, it prevents double-feed. Under stress, a man can only partially chamber a cartridge, and then stroke the bolt again. With the claw extractor, the first cartridge will be ejected.
The Remington style extractor and ejector has some problems -- notably jamming due to shavings and crud under the extractor.
The Remington style extractor and ejector has some problems -- notably jamming due to shavings and crud under the extractor.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Beginning in the mid to late 50's and early 60's, especially the 1964 time-frame brought re-designed model 70, 94, 88, 100 rifles.
Cheaper wood & stamped checkering with high-gloss finishes, and ill-fitting wood. And roll pins and stamped sheet metal parts instead of screws and forged steel.
All the great old bolt-action, pump, and semi-auto .22 rifles were dropped and replaced with junque new designs.
The model 12 shotgun was dropped & replaced with the model 1200 pump.
The Model 50 semi-auto shotgun was replaced with the 1400.
Other then that, nothing much changed!
rcmodel
Cheaper wood & stamped checkering with high-gloss finishes, and ill-fitting wood. And roll pins and stamped sheet metal parts instead of screws and forged steel.
All the great old bolt-action, pump, and semi-auto .22 rifles were dropped and replaced with junque new designs.
The model 12 shotgun was dropped & replaced with the model 1200 pump.
The Model 50 semi-auto shotgun was replaced with the 1400.
Other then that, nothing much changed!
rcmodel
Well, you must not have tried very hard, because I was able to do it easily. Generally upside down, with the ejection side of the action down towards to ground, will do it consistently.
I did it with a .30-06, though. It may well be that a short action is harder to do this with, because the bolt isn't open nearly as wide.
That said, who cares? The old Pre-'64s aren't as accurate as many cheap modern guns, though they're certainly acceptable, and they're damned expensive old guns due to collector interest.
Furthermore, you can get a CRF action in a Ruger or a CZ any day of the week. And the 700 has been used as a military and LE rifle. The new Model 70s are "Pre-'64" designs, as well.
So, unless you're a gun collector trying to ascertain a rifle's value, the whole "Pre-'64" thing is kind of an obsolete howl, by guys who couldn't think of anything new to whine about in over 4 decades.
Cosmoline
Member
The post-64 '94s actually present their own complex history and should NOT be lumped in with the Mod 70's. It's apples and oranges. Winchester switched to some MIM and stamped parts and that plated finish, but not all of these changes stuck. The '94's made from the mid 70's till the takeover by USRAC are really excellent rifles. It was USRAC, with the creation of "angle eject," the external lawyer safety, etc. that radically changed the '94.
MMCSRET
Member
I took a new style angle eject, cross bolt safety M94 action and had it built into a custom 38-55 with 26" 1/2 Rd-1/2 Octagon , button magazine, tang sighted wonder rifle. It is astounding how well this shoots with cast 265 gr., .279 dia bullets at 1800 fps. That late model action is so smooth and nice it is hard to put it down and phenomenally accurate. The action was built in 1997.
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