DougDubya
Member
+1 and quoted for truth.the BHP.
I dont believe any hand gun has been used in a military for the duration the BHP has. If there is.... I still like the BHP
What is the best combat handgun in use today?
- Thread starter Richard
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trillium
Member
Actually Glock 17 , together with Makarov, M9, 1911 and HP are the most combat tested pistol platforms that exists .
More then 3 or 4 million were produced, officially used by about 40 nations (includes even Russian FSB Counter Terrorism Unit - Alfa) as standard sidearms.
No other sidearms can share this achievement. Even Makarov and its Eastern EU clones during Cold War were less widely used. (8 countries including USSR , if count former USSR as 15 different modern nations it will be 22)
i think it would really depend on what the other guy had.
if the bad guys are in helicopters, i would want a main piece and i will worry about my sidearm later.
here is my sum it up for certain battle environments
sniping-
cheytac m200 intervention caliber-.408
cz 75 b caliber-9mm
urban close quarters combat-
Barrett REC7 full auto caliber-6.8 SPC
1911 .45 ACP w/ tons of ammo and magazines
mountainous environment where effective range goes out from 0-250 yrds-
M4 with a .50 beowolf upper reciever and a 4x- scope
CZ 75B in hi cap 9mm magazines
ultra close quarters combat-inside a building, warehouse, 2-6 buildings-
remington model 870 TAC shotgun 12 guage shooting 6-8 rounds of 00 buck
1911 .45 ACP w/ tons of magazines and ammo
if the bad guys are in helicopters, i would want a main piece and i will worry about my sidearm later.
here is my sum it up for certain battle environments
sniping-
cheytac m200 intervention caliber-.408
cz 75 b caliber-9mm
urban close quarters combat-
Barrett REC7 full auto caliber-6.8 SPC
1911 .45 ACP w/ tons of ammo and magazines
mountainous environment where effective range goes out from 0-250 yrds-
M4 with a .50 beowolf upper reciever and a 4x- scope
CZ 75B in hi cap 9mm magazines
ultra close quarters combat-inside a building, warehouse, 2-6 buildings-
remington model 870 TAC shotgun 12 guage shooting 6-8 rounds of 00 buck
1911 .45 ACP w/ tons of magazines and ammo
Vern Humphrey
Member
And the pistol that we currently call the Hi-Power, or P35 is a long way from the gun Browning designed. It owes as much to Dieudonné Saive as to Browning.
RichSenecal
Member
The best combat handgun for you is the one that:
1. You will have with you when you need it.
2. You know better than the back of your hand.
3. You can get it out of the holster and into action without thinking about it.
4. You can hit your target with.
5. That you have absolute trust in because it has proven itself to you.
Obviously the specific weapon that fits these criteria for you may very well not be the same weapon that does it for me.
There have been a lot of excellent suggestiions in this thread and I would not disagree with any of them. I own a number of the handguns suggested in the various posts and I love them all.
But...
If I knew that I was headed into harms way and that I would very likely be engaging in combat, I would take my Colt MKIV Series 70, 1911A1 in .45 ACP with me. It is absolutely reliable, accurate, and I can operate it with either hand without looking at it or thinking about it.
That having been said, the 1911A1 is not my first choice for concealed carry. For that I prefer something a lot smaller and lighter, such as a Kel Tec P3At.
1. You will have with you when you need it.
2. You know better than the back of your hand.
3. You can get it out of the holster and into action without thinking about it.
4. You can hit your target with.
5. That you have absolute trust in because it has proven itself to you.
Obviously the specific weapon that fits these criteria for you may very well not be the same weapon that does it for me.
There have been a lot of excellent suggestiions in this thread and I would not disagree with any of them. I own a number of the handguns suggested in the various posts and I love them all.
But...
If I knew that I was headed into harms way and that I would very likely be engaging in combat, I would take my Colt MKIV Series 70, 1911A1 in .45 ACP with me. It is absolutely reliable, accurate, and I can operate it with either hand without looking at it or thinking about it.
That having been said, the 1911A1 is not my first choice for concealed carry. For that I prefer something a lot smaller and lighter, such as a Kel Tec P3At.
If I needed a pistol to carry into combat it would be my Smith 4065-1. Okay kinda heavy but reliable, accurate and it will feed empty cases. I know everybody has gone over to lightweight plastic like material and some folks like Glock have even done this well but there is something about a slab of cold stainless steel that just tickles my heart strings. And I have a couple of after market 10 round mags that work great.
For defense, I am a total .45 ACP guy. Big, slow moving, knocker on butt round is a very good thing. I suppose 40 SW or 44 SPL might do because they have similar energy levels but we are lacking a major battle proven thing there. I was never in combat myself but I do have several friend who are here today because of the .45 cartridge.
IMHO, 9 can be a good cartridge but I would much prefer it in a small SMG.
Tom
For defense, I am a total .45 ACP guy. Big, slow moving, knocker on butt round is a very good thing. I suppose 40 SW or 44 SPL might do because they have similar energy levels but we are lacking a major battle proven thing there. I was never in combat myself but I do have several friend who are here today because of the .45 cartridge.
IMHO, 9 can be a good cartridge but I would much prefer it in a small SMG.
Tom
NMGonzo
Member
my glock 35 i trust
my heart is on my 1911
but i am faster with the glock
my heart is on my 1911
but i am faster with the glock
jimsmith80
Member
I Have a hard time deciding between my Sig P229R 9mm, Sig P226R in 40/. 357sig, and my Glock 22, 40 S&W. But I will do fine with my Kimber SIS, even if it's not my favroite, I shoot my Sig P229R the best so that is what I would say for me at least, overall you just can't go wrong today with a Sig, Glock, H&K, or many other fine handguns. We are lucky today that there are so many top notch handguns that to say one is better than the other is most often ( with a few exceptions) mear speculation and personal prefrance.
Here is the actual list of counties using Glock Pistols:
* Australia: Royal Australian Air Force (Glock 19), Australian Customs (Glock 17), and all Australian police services (Glock 17, 19, 22, 23, 26, 27) except the South Australia Police and Victoria Police. A Glock 17 outfitted with a thumb safety was designed specifically for the Tasmania Police. [43]
* Austria: Austrian Armed Forces (Glock 17 designated Pistole 80). [44] [45]
* Belgium: Belgian police (Glock 17), [45] Belgian State Security Service. [46]
* Canada: Numerous local law enforcement agencies to include: Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa, Saskatoon, South Coast British Columbia Transportation Authority Police Service, Toronto. [45]
* Ecuador: National Police, various special police units such as the GOE and GIR. [45]
* Fiji: Tactical Response Unit. [47]
* Finland: The primary service firearm of the police. [48] Also in use by the Defence Forces, Department of Corrections (Vankeinhoitolaitos) and Border Guard. [49]
* France: French Army—certain naval and parachute units (Glock 17). [50]
* Georgia: Special forces. [45]
* Germany: GSG 9 of the German Federal Police, [45] Spezialeinsatzkommandos (special response teams) of several state police departments.
* Hong Kong: Special Duties Unit, Hong Kong Police Force. [45]
* Iceland: Icelandic National Police, Víkingasveitin, ICRU. [51] [52] [53]
* India: National Security Guards (Glock 17). [45]
* Indonesia: Indonesian Army Kopassus, Indonesian National Police, Detachment 88.[citation needed]
* Iraq: Iraqi security forces (largest user, purchased 125,163 Glock 19s). [54]
* Italy: Italian special forces—GIS, NOCS, "Col Moschin" Regiment, COMSUBIN, Intelligence and State Security.[citation needed]
* Jordan: Presidential Guard. [45]
* Latvia: Latvian Military (Glock 17), police. [55]
* Lebanon: Used by various police and army units.
* Lithuania: Lithuanian Armed Forces (Glock 17). [56]
* Luxembourg: Glock 17 and 26 variants used by the Unité Spéciale de la Police of the Grand Ducal Police. [57] [58]
* Macedonia: Special police forces, traffic police[citation needed]
* Malaysia: Various forces of Malaysian Armed Forces and Royal Malaysian Police units. [59]
* Mexico: Secretaria de Marina. [45]
* Montenegro: Military of Montenegro [60]
* Netherlands: Military of the Netherlands (Glock 17), [61] Dutch police (Glock 17, about 250 pistols in use as a stopgap measure). [62] [63] [64]
* New Zealand: New Zealand Police (Glock 17). [65]
* Norway: Royal Norwegian Army (Glock 17 designated P-80). [45]
* Philippines: Philippine National Police, National Bureau of Investigation (NBI), National Intelligence Coordinating Agency (NICA), Philippine Drug Enforcement Agency (PDEA). [45]
* Poland: Polish police, [66] Polish Military Police (Glock 17).
* Portugal: Used in the police HK PSP, GNR (Glock 19) , In the Portuguese armed forces (Glock 17)... Glock 18c is also used in the DAE.[citation needed]
* Romania: Issued to deployed and several special operations units.[citation needed]
* Spain: Guardia Civil's UEI (Glock 17). [67]
* Sweden: Swedish Armed Forces (Glock 17 designated Pistol 88 and Glock 19 as Pistol 88B, [68] [69] ) Swedish Customs Service, Swedish Coast Guard.
* Switzerland : Police (Gendarmerie) Cantonal of Geneva are equipped with the Glock 19 [70] The Glarus Cantonal Police also use the Glock 19.
* Taiwan: Garrison Command. National Intelligence Coordinating Agency.[citation needed]
* Thailand: Policeman in 3 south province by G2G buying condition. (Glock 19, 2,238 pcs.) and some policeman, soldier and citizen nationwide. (some models) [45]
* United Kingdom: Greater Manchester Police, Tactical Firearms Unit Specialist Firearms Command of the London Metropolitan Police Service, [71] Police Service of Northern Ireland and certain Scottish Police Specialist Firearms Units (Glock 17). [72]
* United States: FBI, Department of Treasury IRS Criminal Investigation Division, [73] DEA, [74] EPA Criminal Investigation Division, New York City Police Department, Los Angeles Police Department, Philadelphia Police Department, thousands of other agencies at the national, state, and local levels.
* Venezuela [
You just can't argue with facts gentlemen. The Glock 18 would be my selection when the SHTF!
* Australia: Royal Australian Air Force (Glock 19), Australian Customs (Glock 17), and all Australian police services (Glock 17, 19, 22, 23, 26, 27) except the South Australia Police and Victoria Police. A Glock 17 outfitted with a thumb safety was designed specifically for the Tasmania Police. [43]
* Austria: Austrian Armed Forces (Glock 17 designated Pistole 80). [44] [45]
* Belgium: Belgian police (Glock 17), [45] Belgian State Security Service. [46]
* Canada: Numerous local law enforcement agencies to include: Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa, Saskatoon, South Coast British Columbia Transportation Authority Police Service, Toronto. [45]
* Ecuador: National Police, various special police units such as the GOE and GIR. [45]
* Fiji: Tactical Response Unit. [47]
* Finland: The primary service firearm of the police. [48] Also in use by the Defence Forces, Department of Corrections (Vankeinhoitolaitos) and Border Guard. [49]
* France: French Army—certain naval and parachute units (Glock 17). [50]
* Georgia: Special forces. [45]
* Germany: GSG 9 of the German Federal Police, [45] Spezialeinsatzkommandos (special response teams) of several state police departments.
* Hong Kong: Special Duties Unit, Hong Kong Police Force. [45]
* Iceland: Icelandic National Police, Víkingasveitin, ICRU. [51] [52] [53]
* India: National Security Guards (Glock 17). [45]
* Indonesia: Indonesian Army Kopassus, Indonesian National Police, Detachment 88.[citation needed]
* Iraq: Iraqi security forces (largest user, purchased 125,163 Glock 19s). [54]
* Italy: Italian special forces—GIS, NOCS, "Col Moschin" Regiment, COMSUBIN, Intelligence and State Security.[citation needed]
* Jordan: Presidential Guard. [45]
* Latvia: Latvian Military (Glock 17), police. [55]
* Lebanon: Used by various police and army units.
* Lithuania: Lithuanian Armed Forces (Glock 17). [56]
* Luxembourg: Glock 17 and 26 variants used by the Unité Spéciale de la Police of the Grand Ducal Police. [57] [58]
* Macedonia: Special police forces, traffic police[citation needed]
* Malaysia: Various forces of Malaysian Armed Forces and Royal Malaysian Police units. [59]
* Mexico: Secretaria de Marina. [45]
* Montenegro: Military of Montenegro [60]
* Netherlands: Military of the Netherlands (Glock 17), [61] Dutch police (Glock 17, about 250 pistols in use as a stopgap measure). [62] [63] [64]
* New Zealand: New Zealand Police (Glock 17). [65]
* Norway: Royal Norwegian Army (Glock 17 designated P-80). [45]
* Philippines: Philippine National Police, National Bureau of Investigation (NBI), National Intelligence Coordinating Agency (NICA), Philippine Drug Enforcement Agency (PDEA). [45]
* Poland: Polish police, [66] Polish Military Police (Glock 17).
* Portugal: Used in the police HK PSP, GNR (Glock 19) , In the Portuguese armed forces (Glock 17)... Glock 18c is also used in the DAE.[citation needed]
* Romania: Issued to deployed and several special operations units.[citation needed]
* Spain: Guardia Civil's UEI (Glock 17). [67]
* Sweden: Swedish Armed Forces (Glock 17 designated Pistol 88 and Glock 19 as Pistol 88B, [68] [69] ) Swedish Customs Service, Swedish Coast Guard.
* Switzerland : Police (Gendarmerie) Cantonal of Geneva are equipped with the Glock 19 [70] The Glarus Cantonal Police also use the Glock 19.
* Taiwan: Garrison Command. National Intelligence Coordinating Agency.[citation needed]
* Thailand: Policeman in 3 south province by G2G buying condition. (Glock 19, 2,238 pcs.) and some policeman, soldier and citizen nationwide. (some models) [45]
* United Kingdom: Greater Manchester Police, Tactical Firearms Unit Specialist Firearms Command of the London Metropolitan Police Service, [71] Police Service of Northern Ireland and certain Scottish Police Specialist Firearms Units (Glock 17). [72]
* United States: FBI, Department of Treasury IRS Criminal Investigation Division, [73] DEA, [74] EPA Criminal Investigation Division, New York City Police Department, Los Angeles Police Department, Philadelphia Police Department, thousands of other agencies at the national, state, and local levels.
* Venezuela [
You just can't argue with facts gentlemen. The Glock 18 would be my selection when the SHTF!
katokahn99
Member
Proliferation is not always the best indicator...example SA-7s are all over the world; but, are they the best? Heck no!
Am I saying that Glocks are POS like the SA-7? Not by a long shot.
To arm an army? Any of the modern plymer "combat" pistols. To arm self? Well, it all comes down to what works for you now doesn't it?
One cannot deny that Brownings design is still right there at the top though. The man was a genious!!!
Am I saying that Glocks are POS like the SA-7? Not by a long shot.
To arm an army? Any of the modern plymer "combat" pistols. To arm self? Well, it all comes down to what works for you now doesn't it?
One cannot deny that Brownings design is still right there at the top though. The man was a genious!!!
christcorp
Member
I also believe in the 45acp; but also as said, combat doesn't normally relate to pistol. But in the respect of the question, I will say the 45acp. Now, unfortunately, I don't go with the 1911A1. I have a Springfield 1911A1 that I've had for 25 years and I love it. But with more modern type weapons, I think there are better 45acp out there than the 1911A1. My 1st choice above all would be the Sig P220. And I think that 9 rounds is plenty. Especially for this scenario. Police might be able to justify a 15 round magazine, but for the rest, 8-9 rounds is plenty. And again, when the word combat is used, the primary weapon would not be a pistol. Therefor, a P220 with 9 rounds is perfect. Reliable, durable, dependable, and safe.
leadcounsel
member
Glock.
Cheaper than anything else at about $400 each for military.
Far more reliable and user friendly than anything else.
Far lighter than nearly everything else by 1/2 the weight.
While the military typically uses the underpowered (for combat) 9mm, the Glocks can be used in any common caliber and the gun is exactly the same so there is no need for additional platform training. A glock 9mm is the same as a .45.
Cheaper than anything else at about $400 each for military.
Far more reliable and user friendly than anything else.
Far lighter than nearly everything else by 1/2 the weight.
While the military typically uses the underpowered (for combat) 9mm, the Glocks can be used in any common caliber and the gun is exactly the same so there is no need for additional platform training. A glock 9mm is the same as a .45.
Waterfowler
Member
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2009
- Messages
- 20
duwulf said:
Best combination of range, power, and magazine capacity combined with Glock reliability!
sarduy
Member
i would love to see a picture of that thumb safety glock
There are several "best" handguns!
Wow, this thread is old. I hope someone sees this! Everyone seems to be a big fan of the Glock. When a professional can chose what they want to carry, they rarely go for a Glock as first choice! The skill level of the operator, caliber, and application all dictate what type of weapon would be most suitable. I would NOT include Glock pistols for the following reasons.
1. They have the worst natural pointing characteristics of almost any handgun (I owned a Glock 17 BTW) and tend to tilt upward when gripped and pointed quickly.
2. They are generally reliable but are sometimes sensitive to certain loads. I had stove pipes on more than one occasion (and yes, I had a firm grip and did not "limp wrist" it.
3. The "safe action" trigger/safety combo is even more prone to AD's than a cocked and locked M1911. (This is documented)
My list would include the following:
Sig P226 9mm or P220 if you prefer a .45 - extremely accurate, lightweight, reliable, rugged, and beautifully made. The P226 is the standard sidearm of the U.S. Navy Seals ( enough said!)
CZ pistols. 75b, 85, P0-1, or in .45 the P97, which holds 14 rds! More international security and professional military types use these than ANY other sidearm.
HK USP -passed all rigorous U.S. military tests and bettered the Beretta. However, money and politics resulted in the Beretta being retained.
Model 1911 .45 auto (customized for combat carry). Great track record, long and distinguished service history. However, ONLY for individuals who receive a very high degree of training, not the average person.
Wow, this thread is old. I hope someone sees this! Everyone seems to be a big fan of the Glock. When a professional can chose what they want to carry, they rarely go for a Glock as first choice! The skill level of the operator, caliber, and application all dictate what type of weapon would be most suitable. I would NOT include Glock pistols for the following reasons.
1. They have the worst natural pointing characteristics of almost any handgun (I owned a Glock 17 BTW) and tend to tilt upward when gripped and pointed quickly.
2. They are generally reliable but are sometimes sensitive to certain loads. I had stove pipes on more than one occasion (and yes, I had a firm grip and did not "limp wrist" it.
3. The "safe action" trigger/safety combo is even more prone to AD's than a cocked and locked M1911. (This is documented)
My list would include the following:
Sig P226 9mm or P220 if you prefer a .45 - extremely accurate, lightweight, reliable, rugged, and beautifully made. The P226 is the standard sidearm of the U.S. Navy Seals ( enough said!)
CZ pistols. 75b, 85, P0-1, or in .45 the P97, which holds 14 rds! More international security and professional military types use these than ANY other sidearm.
HK USP -passed all rigorous U.S. military tests and bettered the Beretta. However, money and politics resulted in the Beretta being retained.
Model 1911 .45 auto (customized for combat carry). Great track record, long and distinguished service history. However, ONLY for individuals who receive a very high degree of training, not the average person.
valorius
member
I think the FN Five Seven is the most revolutionary pistol on the market today.
31rd capacity, Class II armor penetration capability, 5.56mm rifle type fragmentation capability, virtually no recoil, and 100+ meter range.
Quite a package.
31rd capacity, Class II armor penetration capability, 5.56mm rifle type fragmentation capability, virtually no recoil, and 100+ meter range.
Quite a package.
Fishslayer
Member
Whatever I happen to have in my pocket when I run out of 12GA...
wlewisiii
Member
K frame Smith&Wesson in .38 Special +P.
Johnny Guest
Moderator In Memoriam
This thread is getting pretty tired
Some "raised from the dead" threads are fairly amusing. Those tend to have attracted some new and valuable observations or even simply witty input. Most, however are like this one. It is nearly three years old, three hundred forty-odd entries, and there's nothing new that wasn't pretty well covered in the past. Members are beginning to repeat themselves, or simply copy one another. Others appear to have signed on to THR for the sole purpose of arguing or bashing others' opinions.
Would there be such a wide selection of defensive and "tactical-type" handguns available if there was one, single type, brand, design, or even caliber proven to be the be-all, end-all for the purpose?
I've been shooting handguns of various kinds for around 50 years, and they are generally my favorite type firearms. I haven't shot 'em ALL, but I have pretty wide experience. About the only conclusion I've reached is that I have my favorites, the ones I'd pick if forced to choose, in a situation when I'd be likely to need one. I've also noticed that other individuals, people whose opinions I respect, sometimes choose other types. Some of those are people I'd be proud to have at my back in a tight spot, anywhere we happened to be. And in such a situation, I'd want whichever person to have the sidearm with which HE --or SHE -- was most confortable, most familiar, and most accurate.
There's likely no single BEST for everyone. We're NOT choosing the single sidearm with which we'd equip an army or large constabulary, which would require other considerations. This being the case, the topic has been quite well thrashed out, and this poor, weary thread is CLOSED.
Johnny Guest
THR Staff
Handguns: Autoloaders Forum
Some "raised from the dead" threads are fairly amusing. Those tend to have attracted some new and valuable observations or even simply witty input. Most, however are like this one. It is nearly three years old, three hundred forty-odd entries, and there's nothing new that wasn't pretty well covered in the past. Members are beginning to repeat themselves, or simply copy one another. Others appear to have signed on to THR for the sole purpose of arguing or bashing others' opinions.
Would there be such a wide selection of defensive and "tactical-type" handguns available if there was one, single type, brand, design, or even caliber proven to be the be-all, end-all for the purpose?
I've been shooting handguns of various kinds for around 50 years, and they are generally my favorite type firearms. I haven't shot 'em ALL, but I have pretty wide experience. About the only conclusion I've reached is that I have my favorites, the ones I'd pick if forced to choose, in a situation when I'd be likely to need one. I've also noticed that other individuals, people whose opinions I respect, sometimes choose other types. Some of those are people I'd be proud to have at my back in a tight spot, anywhere we happened to be. And in such a situation, I'd want whichever person to have the sidearm with which HE --or SHE -- was most confortable, most familiar, and most accurate.
There's likely no single BEST for everyone. We're NOT choosing the single sidearm with which we'd equip an army or large constabulary, which would require other considerations. This being the case, the topic has been quite well thrashed out, and this poor, weary thread is CLOSED.
Johnny Guest
THR Staff
Handguns: Autoloaders Forum
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