What is the biggest firearm flop you have ever seen

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Ha, I just thought of an ironic one: The Thunder 5.


Now, it was indeed a poor seller, and an idea that was too dumb to live.


Except... :eek:
 
leadcounsel said, WRT the Chiappa revolver.

I don't see any real merit to anything that abomination has to offer.
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Fondled one once. I liked the flats on the cylinder, which gave a modicum of extra concealability. Wouldn't mind seeing something like that on, like, a J-frame.

Haven't fired one, so can't testify to the "lower axis of recoil," advantage, but it seems logical. However, with proper grips on a conventional revolver, one can either take full-house 158 grain .357 recoil or one can't.

The rhino logo looks like a fetus to me. Doesn't have anything to do with the gun's effeciveness, just esthetically jarring.

One has to presume the odd internal mechanism, in varying from the "tried and true," is reliable, but that "hammer that's not a hammer" kind of puts me off.

<rant>
I'll agree on the .45 GAP. I think some <ahem> "European theoretician" looked down the case of a .45 ACP and asked himself why there was so much unneeded extra volume in there. This "theoretician" then proceeded to cut the case down to the point where the loading density got to be a little ticklish in pressure jumps and special powders had to be used.

And this here now European "theoretician" seemed to have forgotten about the American propensity to reload cartridges with whatever canister powders were on his shelf and occasionally uses his gun in hot weather.

Oh, and the rebated rim....

All for a stinkin' 1/8 or so inches in case length, which allowed for a slightly smaller grip on the handgun. BFD.

Perfection.
</rant>

Terry, 230RN
 
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I hear ya, but as a proud PT99 owner, the quality issues surrounding the millennium when they first came out was a let down,
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Yeah they were disappointing during the first 2 generations especially but after that they made a comeback. I tend to think of guns that were a total bust like the AR-7. Yeah they eventually found a way to make them better but that was 20 years later and about 3 companies later. It didn't take Taurus that long to get the Mil. Pro. guns right. Armalite and Century Arms both failed miserably to ever get the AR-7 going. Remember those things were popular as heck for a short time but then people realized what junk they were. Coon hunters loved them until they figured out you couldn't hit a coon in a tree with one. That's bad. Real bad.
 
I love the COP 357!!

The AMT Backup in .45 was pretty not great

Regarding the Chiappa Revolver, I love the way they look! The low bore would have to make muzzle flip non-existent. I've not fired one yet.
The internals look like a Rube Goldberg machine
 
For recent flops, the R51 and ACR come to mind. Both were great designs in theory and touted as "game changers". :rolleyes: Yeah, well... the game hasn't changed. I know the R51 just came out, but the sheer amount of issues it's having and Remington's past incompetence and inability to fix rampant issues doesn't give me much hope. I was really looking forward to both the ACR and R51, and if Remington ever gets their <deleted> together I'd love to own one (or three :D) of each.

The STI Nemesis in 7mm Penna also comes to mind. I saw it talked about and advertised a lot as the next big thing in carry guns, and from a competent manufacturer too! - then... poof. Nothing.

People have already mentioned the Shrike. I remember back in the early 2000s when this thing was "released" and people lined up to throw their money at it. Years and years went by and... nothing. I've heard some actually received their orders, but it's been 12 years and as far as I can tell the Shrike still isn't in full production and most of the people who ordered them do not have them. Oh well.

Anyone else remember the Ruger XGI? :(

wally said:
But it appears they will be coming back with an updated design to fix the issues. But will anyone give them another chance? Most people who had a Caracal seemed to enjoy shooting them.

At least they didn't leave their customers with mostly useless guns like with the Bren 10.
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Everyone seems to forget that Caracal imported just as many full-size F models as they did C, and the F's are still going strong with no issues. You'd think by the way people talked that Caracal folded their entire line and was a total failure.
 
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Dan Wesson, Revolvers, but they are making a comeback with their revolver line. The Smith Chief special auto series, like the CS45, "still have one", and the 9 and 40. Timing is important, many a great gun came out an an odd time when people were focusing on Glocks or other Hi-Cap guns. Now the swing back to single stack would have been perfect for many that fell by the wayside.
 
"Dan Wesson, Revolvers, but they are making a comeback with their revolver line."
They are?

"You'd think by the way people talked that Caracal folded their entire line and was a total failure."
Hilarious. I actually thought they had :p :eek:. This was the closest I ever came to being interested in a Glock-esque poly-striker, but then the recall happened, everyone (I thought) sent their guns back, then...nothing. And I stopped seeing threads reviewing newly purchased guns :confused:. I figured they were still in mid-re-design; one more gun to be on the lookout for (still haven't seen one in person)

TCB
 
The "Strizh?" Or Arsenal's "Strike One." http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/rus/strike_one_pistol-e.html

Like other foreign service weapons, it's kind of hard to say it's a flop (also too early to say that) simply because they'll make a million of them for their troops, whether any US shooter would want one, or be willing to pay the cost.

Kind of like the Indian INSAS rifle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INSAS_rifle Or the British L85: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA80. Both pretty much "flops" that made it by default. (LOL..."de fault" of being adopted by a country's military, regardless of problems.)

Or the Chinese Type 95: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QBZ-95 With it's interesting new 5.8x42mm round that we're all pretty much unlikely to ever put eyes on except in pictures. It may be awesome, and it may suck. There are far too many Chinese soldiers who'll carry one for us to ever declare it a flop either way.
 
Sam1911 said:
The "Strizh?" Or Arsenal's "Strike One." http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/rus/strike_one_pistol-e.html

Like other foreign service weapons, it's kind of hard to say it's a flop (also too early to say that) simply because they'll make a million of them for their troops, whether any US shooter would want one, or be willing to pay the cost.

Kind of like the Indian INSAS rifle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INSAS_rifle Or the British L85: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA80. Both pretty much "flops" that made it by default. (LOL..."de fault" of being adopted by a country's military, regardless of problems.)

Or the Chinese Type 95: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QBZ-95 With it's interesting new 5.8x42mm round that we're all pretty much unlikely to ever put eyes on except in pictures. It may be awesome, and it may suck. There are far too many Chinese soldiers who'll carry one for us to ever declare it a flop either way.
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I don't know about the Chinese 5.8mm cartridge, but the export models of that rifle (5.56mm Type 97A) are popular in Canada. When I lived there they sold like hotcakes and everyone seemed to own and love them.
 
Sam,

It looks like a really nifty handgun. I like it's natural looking aim point and low bore axis. If they can get it in the States under $700, I'd pick one up.
 
I'm putting up the Kriss for ongoing flop. A recent thread was asking why not offer it in 9mm, and that drove home the point. It would be an exercise in making the system even smaller to handle less recoil.

What it does best would be handling .338 or .50 BMG. Haven't seen those. Kriss 10ga shotgun? Nope. If it's a recoil reducing mechanism, fine, offer it where we need it.

In pistol calibers up thru intermediate carbine cartridges, we have compensators capable of doing the same job. A lot of three gun competitors have fitted their rifles out and they work pretty well. That alone undercuts the entire point of having the Kriss system at all.

I figured the collector's of weird designs were the first to step up, and so far, it seems that has been the market. To introduce a submachine gun just when the mil/LEO market transitioned to the carbine was particularly ill timed. Then the question goes to, what would a larger caliber gun look like, and would anyone want it?

Maybe if it was a Kriss/Barrett.

But no, the company is trying to move into handguns, where we already handle recoil effectively enough to shoot a 9mm with one hand. Adding a complex and bulky mechanism to that seems to be going the wrong way. It prompts comparisons to the mindset of the Remington corporate culture - impede the sales of the monolithic AR upper and concentrate on retro handguns, all while attempting damage control over the 700 trigger.
 
A Dan Wesson was on Slick guns, 2 days ago, it only came with a very long barrel, "6-8.5 inches" "I forget which", but they said more will be coming out this year, So we have that to look forward to
 
I suggest the South African Alex du Plessis design of a semiauto pistol with a piston was ultimately a flop. The ADP pistol design was sold to Tanfoglio. I know I bought a version of it made by Heritage called the Stealth. Even Wilson Combat got into the act for a while with its ADP.

There are bigger flops, but this is the only one with which I had direct experience.
 
Oh hey LOL yeah, the Wilson ADP! That was a real stinker. They got some serious egg on their good name with that one.

Sam1911 said:
Kind of like the Indian INSAS rifle:
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If I recall correctly India only has one gun manufacturer, and it's state-owned and operated with a reputation for shoddy guns and astronomic prices.
 
Ha, I just thought of an ironic one: The Thunder 5.

Now, it was indeed a poor seller, and an idea that was too dumb to live.

Except...
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LOL! Truth. I remember seeing one in a local gunshop back in the mid-90s and making a snarky comment about it to the dealer. He agreed that, at best, it was a gimmick and it worse something requiring an expletive to fully describe. He'd gotten it as a trade-in and thought I'd enjoy the humor value.

Years later, the Judge, Raging Judge, The Governor, Circuit Judge, Deputy Governor with Stern Words, Super Raging Judge with Constipation-induced Irritability, et al are selling like hotcakes. I still wouldn't take one for free ... well, sure, for free, but nothing more than that. ;)
 
I sticking with the C.O.P. - For a pure scare factor, seeing four rounds of 158gr JHP up close, would be eye-popping. However, the Monday-to-Wednesday trigger pull, put it out of the running for a back-up piece.

The AMT Hardballer - Owned one in the 80's. Thought it was the answer. However, no amount of grease, fitting, etc., could get that gun to shoot more than 4 consecutive rounds without a jam.

The Chiappa Rhino - The answer to an unasked question.
 
Colt All American 2000

1. Colt was late to the wonder nine market and rather than rely on their own R&D, they bought a design (for the price a hefty historical full auto collection) that wasn't fully wrought out. One could argue Colt almost ceased to exist over this boondoggle.

2. They didn't market it well.

3. The design was supposedly better in the aluminum frame version, but Beretta already owned that market. The composite version offered no improvements over the Glock ie less capacity with a stranger trigger and far less reliable.

Still, I wish I had picked one up when CDNN was liquidating them cheap. Just as a curiosity and occasional range gun.

PS as far as Russian pistols I'd like to see stateside the Grach is still on the top of my list.

I had forgotten about the British L85. Talk about problematic that you have to hire Germans to re-engineer your mistakes. ;)
 
How about the Steyr GB 9mm or the SPP pistols? I think the Sig 226 killed the GB back in the 80's and the SPP had to deal with the HK. I guess when you go up against two of the best, you better bring your A++ game or don't even show up!
 
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