Starting with the 80's, the squared and grooved trigger guard front was all rage......now some new models are reversing to the regular rounded one....the best example is Beretta with their 92A1....so what is the deal??? What reasons behind this??
What is the deal with the "disappearing" combat trigger guards???
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Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
The reason behind it was the theory that you'd want to or maybe even "should" put your index finger of your support hand on there. Now, that theory has been long-abandoned as the opposite of a good idea (for several, probably obvious reasons) and the manufacturers are starting to drop even the aesthetic vestiges of the concept.
RevolvingGarbage
Member
Regardless of the fact that your support index finger should be with the rest of your support hand on the handle of the pistol, I do think that aesthetically speaking, the Beretta series of pistols has always just looked right with that flat serrated section on the front of the trigger guard.
Actually I do like the smooth and more hooked version found on the PT-92, and I do plan on buying a PT-92 as my next hand gun.
Actually I do like the smooth and more hooked version found on the PT-92, and I do plan on buying a PT-92 as my next hand gun.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Well, others who lived through those dark years may remember who first came up with it, but the idea was that you'd somehow grip the trigger guard and help secure the gun that way, or that you could apply pressure with your support "trigger finger" to balance out pressure from your firing finger, maybe.
It really didn't make much sense, but we humans like to try out everything, at least once, right?
As handgunning has evolved and the theory and practice have been refined and distilled (amazing how far we've come in just the last three decades or so) good coaches and instructors realized that your support hand does ~70% of the gripping work, that you shouldn't be putting ANY pressure side-to-side with either trigger finger, and that your trigger finger belongs down with your other support-hand fingers where it can do some good.
But manufacturers, who back in the '70s thought it made their guns look modern, space-age, and cool, are slow to change, so a lot of guns still have them. Sort of like a vestigial tail. And many shooters like RG feel they are a defining part of the "look" of certain guns.
It really didn't make much sense, but we humans like to try out everything, at least once, right?
As handgunning has evolved and the theory and practice have been refined and distilled (amazing how far we've come in just the last three decades or so) good coaches and instructors realized that your support hand does ~70% of the gripping work, that you shouldn't be putting ANY pressure side-to-side with either trigger finger, and that your trigger finger belongs down with your other support-hand fingers where it can do some good.
But manufacturers, who back in the '70s thought it made their guns look modern, space-age, and cool, are slow to change, so a lot of guns still have them. Sort of like a vestigial tail. And many shooters like RG feel they are a defining part of the "look" of certain guns.
I agree with him on the look part....the Beretta 92 for me "has to have" the squared serrated front trigger guard...it is a fundamental part of the look of that pistol....
I tend to like a squared trigger guard in general.....
Placing your support hand's finger on the front of the trigger guard makes some people "feel" like they are exerting more control on the gun and reducing muzzle lift. They're not really, it is completely psychological. By reaching and placing that finger on the trigger guard you are opening up your support hand and actually giving up some of the advantage of using both hands. Read Brian Enos' book "Practical Shooting". He and Rob Leatham have spent many years trying EVERY trick in the book and found out what works and what doesn't. And won a lot of National level matches in the process. A lot of people seem convinced that they can physically manhandle a gun and stop the muzzle from lifting. Even if it was possible you will simply oversteer and overcontrol the gun and miss a lot of targets. I tried it and finally learned that the pros were right. Muscle tension is your enemy when shooting a handgun. Don't fight the laws of physics. If you simply cannot wait for the muzzle to lift and return to where it was buy a compensated barrel.
Bozwell
Member
While some people incorrectly stick their finger there, I've always heard that rather than being intended for your finger, the textured, flat trigger guard was designed for bracing the gun against a barrier.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
A reverse-evolution useage. Some guys have used it for this.
I tend to try to NOT contact barricades as it tends to screw you up more than help, and, of course, it makes you "crowd" cover.
I tend to try to NOT contact barricades as it tends to screw you up more than help, and, of course, it makes you "crowd" cover.
The Lone Haranguer
Member
You can tell an early vs. later production S&W Third Generation by its squared vs. round trigger guard, respectively. The rounded ones still (usually, depending on the model) have checkering on the front, though. Wrapping your support hand index finger around the trigger guard was a fad that became outmoded.
1KPerDay
Member
I don't use the trigger guard for anything other than to guard the trigger. However, Glocks, berettas, and SIGs look best with the scoop/lip, IMO.
It's pretty interesting to see questions come up for the use and evolution of features of a handgun platform. BTW, the forerunner of the Beretta 92 and it's hooked trigger guard was the Beretta 1951, which had a rounded trigger guard
The hooked/squared/flattened trigger guard was in vogue in the 70s, with the most popular domestic versions being on the 1911. Usually attributed to Swenson, who also invented the Ambi-thumbsafety
It was based on the same belief that made the Weaver grip/stance so popular...that you could hold a pistol down in recoil through muscle and leverage.
As better ways of managing recoil were developed, the squared trigger guard fell into disuse...but it continues in production either through demand or coolness (like the FLGR on a 1911). The Isosceles grip/stance has shown that trying to control recoil by holding the pistol down isn't needed for rapid repeat shots and that using the finger forward grip just compromises your accuracy as well.
As you are not required to use the hook on the trigger guard,it has mostly become a matter of taste. Here are a couple of SIG 220s, one (White) in standard configuration and one (Blued) with a rounded guard
The hooked/squared/flattened trigger guard was in vogue in the 70s, with the most popular domestic versions being on the 1911. Usually attributed to Swenson, who also invented the Ambi-thumbsafety
It was based on the same belief that made the Weaver grip/stance so popular...that you could hold a pistol down in recoil through muscle and leverage.
As better ways of managing recoil were developed, the squared trigger guard fell into disuse...but it continues in production either through demand or coolness (like the FLGR on a 1911). The Isosceles grip/stance has shown that trying to control recoil by holding the pistol down isn't needed for rapid repeat shots and that using the finger forward grip just compromises your accuracy as well.
As you are not required to use the hook on the trigger guard,it has mostly become a matter of taste. Here are a couple of SIG 220s, one (White) in standard configuration and one (Blued) with a rounded guard
I vaguely remember reading back in the '70s that the squared trigger guard was originally based on requirements from some European military or police agencies. Again, if memory serves, it had to do with handling the guns while wearing heavy winter gloves.
From the standpoint of self defense shooting as opposed to competition, I'm a believer in using whatever works best for you. I've looked at various recommended methods of gun handling from various authorities and found they sometimes disagree on a number of points. If you can successfully break or bend the rules to make something work better for you, that's great.
From the standpoint of self defense shooting as opposed to competition, I'm a believer in using whatever works best for you. I've looked at various recommended methods of gun handling from various authorities and found they sometimes disagree on a number of points. If you can successfully break or bend the rules to make something work better for you, that's great.
Plus there are a number of tactical disadvantages to being that close to a barricade/cover/concealment
I agree. While I do believe there are some basics that should work for everyone, you can't come up with one single perfect stance and hold that is going to allow every person to shoot their best. I prefer a Weaver style stance myself, but that isn't going to work for everyone.
Ghost Tracker
Member
Hooked trigger guards have been more popular in Europe and their training traditionally teaches the off-hand hook technique. Here in the U.S., because we have so much more action-pistol competition, we are faster to see/know & change to what works BEST. Rob L., Jerry M., etc., etc. don't hook the front of their trigger guard & they're among the best practical pistol shooters in the world. If they don't do it...we don't do it. And if we don't do it, the manufacturers have little reason to go to the extra effort (expense) of including a hook on new models.
wheelyfun66
Member
Imagine how goofy a Glock would look with a curved trigger guard? 
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Really? There are several companies who do that kind of modification.
It looks pretty good:
That's from Southwest Weapons and Security Associates (click for link) -- just one of the firms who can do this.
If I was building a serious use/competition Glock, I'd probably consider several of the mods they do.
It looks pretty good:
That's from Southwest Weapons and Security Associates (click for link) -- just one of the firms who can do this.
If I was building a serious use/competition Glock, I'd probably consider several of the mods they do.
Ever see an HK P9s? That trigger guard looks like a knuckle duster. I always thought that was part of the 'when it's empty it's still a blackjack' way of thinking: no way that was JUST a place to put your off hand finger.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_&_Koch_P9
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_&_Koch_P9
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
Except we're talking about trigger guard grooves which are useless. Light rails and forward slide serrations are useful.
Zach S
Member
Glocks, Sigs, and Beretta M9s look as weird with round trigger guards as 1911s look with square ones...
But to be honest, for the most part, I couldn't care less. I won't own a 1911 with a square trigger guard though. It has nothing to do with the fact it looks weird, its because that square trigger guard wont fit into my holsters.
But to be honest, for the most part, I couldn't care less. I won't own a 1911 with a square trigger guard though. It has nothing to do with the fact it looks weird, its because that square trigger guard wont fit into my holsters.
Sam1911 said:
This guy is pretty good at it
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...4lT42SPJLeggeP_pyHCQ&ved=0CE4Q9QEwBw&dur=1813
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Yeah...well Angus shoots CZs, so there's probably no hope for him!
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