mrpackwolf
Member
Forgive my ignorance but isn't that just the NATO stamping? Will most of these rifles mentioned shoot both with minor adjustments in their gas systems? I just don't know...
What is the most impressive 308 battle rifle?
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allaroundhunter
Member
I don't know if that is a safe assumption necessarily. It isn't that the sights are of better quality, it is that the M21 rifle itself is built to be more accurate. It is designed to be used with a rifle scope as a sniper rifle, capable of making shots out to 800 yards.
The M14 was designed as a battle rifle: capable of engaging man-sized targets out to 300+ yards effectively with iron sights, which it is more than capable of doing.
mrpackwolf
Member
oh, Okay. that helps me understand the difference much better as they both kinda look alike but the 21 is definately more expensive. I guess it is more tricked out.
Murphy4570
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The rifles already fire said bullet. That fellow is trying to discern whether the 30-06 cartridge is included in the discussion, as that fires the same bullet.
ApacheCoTodd
member
To answer the question as directly as possible... As far as "impressive" and having trained hordes of semi-literates around the world - gotta go FAL for durability, ease of use, compatibility regarding ammo quality, general accuracy and more.
When you later throw accuracy into the mix - gotta go M1A et al, hands down. Steer clear of the import ones as the interchangeability of components is always suspect and in some cases outright impossible.
Don't skimp on mags either and the fakers are getting damn good at re-stamping the imports.
When you later throw accuracy into the mix - gotta go M1A et al, hands down. Steer clear of the import ones as the interchangeability of components is always suspect and in some cases outright impossible.
Don't skimp on mags either and the fakers are getting damn good at re-stamping the imports.
mrpackwolf
Member
I see. same caliber different brass. What is the NATO designation for the 308? or is there one?
No, what changed the nature of battle rifles was the StG44.
In the .308 world - which could include rebarreled Israeli M1's, the most impressive rifle is the AR10. First, because it made the other battle rifles in .308 look like the curios and relics they are, and second, it weighs two pounds less than the hunk of roller locking sheetmetal my HK91 was. BOTH don't have operating rods or silly gas mechanisms rattling around on the barrel attempting to bend it while cycling.
Of course, most of the Armies of the world dropped the .308 because it's more cartridge than needed. In terms of the most awesome, that leaves the AR10 as the last and best design - something it proved even more when it transistioned to 5.56 and became the most successful battle rifle in American history. Added to that, the 65 nations that have subsequently dumped the .308 battle rifle en mass and made it the parts guns so avidly coveted by collectors today.
As for actual battlefield use, there's barely a few thousand, usually dedicated as a battalion asset to be parceled out one per patrol, with it's dedicated marksman. As some have already posted, the refitted M14's sent to SWAsia largely remain in the racks. That conflict has moved to the urban built up areas and transistioned to the IED warfare used in Iraq.
In terms of numbers, with over 100,000 troops in Afghanistan, there may be more M9 pistols than .308 rifles issued. At least we know which are actually more effective.
In the .308 world - which could include rebarreled Israeli M1's, the most impressive rifle is the AR10. First, because it made the other battle rifles in .308 look like the curios and relics they are, and second, it weighs two pounds less than the hunk of roller locking sheetmetal my HK91 was. BOTH don't have operating rods or silly gas mechanisms rattling around on the barrel attempting to bend it while cycling.
Of course, most of the Armies of the world dropped the .308 because it's more cartridge than needed. In terms of the most awesome, that leaves the AR10 as the last and best design - something it proved even more when it transistioned to 5.56 and became the most successful battle rifle in American history. Added to that, the 65 nations that have subsequently dumped the .308 battle rifle en mass and made it the parts guns so avidly coveted by collectors today.
As for actual battlefield use, there's barely a few thousand, usually dedicated as a battalion asset to be parceled out one per patrol, with it's dedicated marksman. As some have already posted, the refitted M14's sent to SWAsia largely remain in the racks. That conflict has moved to the urban built up areas and transistioned to the IED warfare used in Iraq.
In terms of numbers, with over 100,000 troops in Afghanistan, there may be more M9 pistols than .308 rifles issued. At least we know which are actually more effective.
allaroundhunter
Member
Well, if you have had a chance to buy an actual M14 then it will run you considerably more than an M21. Fully Automatic NFA weapons are not cheap.
If you are talking about a standard M1A compared to an M21, then yes, the M21 will be more expensive. It has been put together to be as accurate as that system can be, and the price tag reflects that.
.308 is the bullet diameter. 99% of the time when someone says .308 they are refering to 7.62x51 or vice versa, which is the NATO way of saying 308 WIN. There are some minor differences between the two but not many. And none that would keep you from being able to fire one or the other from a rifle. .308 is also the bullet diamater used in 30-06, or 7.62x63.
What does a good M14 go for these days? $25,000
How on earth did I forget the AR10... Thanks Tirod for picking up the slack.
allaroundhunter
Member
I'm pretty sure that is on the low side....
mrpackwolf
Member
Thanks Gus for the learning. I am gathering intelligence before i go out and drop serious cash on a weapon. I own an AR-15 and it is fun but i want something fun and with more punch. After shooting the FAL, i kinda fell in love with the .308
thanks again!
thanks again!
DAdams
Member
Would this count?
16 Inch LaRue Tactical PredatAR 7.62
http://www.laruetactical.com/16”-larue-tactical-predatar-762
Caliber: 7.62 x 51 mm NATO
Rifle Weight: 7.75 lb. (based on 16.1” barrel version, unloaded without optics and accessories)
Barrel Length: 16“
Rifling Twist Rate: 1/11.25
Muzzle Thread Configuration: 5/8x24 *
Barrel Material: LW50 Stainless Steel, Blackened.
Barrel Life: 10,000 (approx)
Gas System: Direct Impingement
Trigger Group: Two-Stage Geissele
Rate of Fire: Semi automatic
Magazine Capacity: 20 rounds
16 Inch LaRue Tactical PredatAR 7.62
http://www.laruetactical.com/16”-larue-tactical-predatar-762
Caliber: 7.62 x 51 mm NATO
Rifle Weight: 7.75 lb. (based on 16.1” barrel version, unloaded without optics and accessories)
Barrel Length: 16“
Rifling Twist Rate: 1/11.25
Muzzle Thread Configuration: 5/8x24 *
Barrel Material: LW50 Stainless Steel, Blackened.
Barrel Life: 10,000 (approx)
Gas System: Direct Impingement
Trigger Group: Two-Stage Geissele
Rate of Fire: Semi automatic
Magazine Capacity: 20 rounds
Ranger30-06
Member
The LaRue OBR is a awesome rifle. And had better be for what they want for one. But if I had the money I'd order one tomorrow.
allaroundhunter
Member
I hear ya there.....but I wish I had that much cash just laying around
DAdams
Member
I keep trying to justify why I shouldn't buy one of these. If I could find one for $1999 I would have to do it.
fireside44
member
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The FAL is the most widely used and battle proven rifle there is in terms of .308/7.62x51 weapons. Over 90 countries used them. Not much comes close to that.
mrpackwolf
Member
Gee... that LaRue sure is sexy!!! How much we talkin?
OBR:
http://www.laruetactical.com/obr-762
PredatAR:
http://www.laruetactical.com/predatar762
MSRP on both run between $2500 and $3000. But that is MSRP...
Mark and his crew make top notch firearms and gear. But you will pay for it. Really nice folks though.
http://www.laruetactical.com/obr-762
PredatAR:
http://www.laruetactical.com/predatar762
MSRP on both run between $2500 and $3000. But that is MSRP...
Mark and his crew make top notch firearms and gear. But you will pay for it. Really nice folks though.
DAdams
Member
http://www.laruetactical.com/16”-larue-tactical-predatar-762
I would do the lighter version at $2495.
IMO if one was going to hump 9+ lbs around, may as well get a MIA Scout.
I would do the lighter version at $2495.
IMO if one was going to hump 9+ lbs around, may as well get a MIA Scout.
mrpackwolf
Member
Wow! They are still pretty sexy.
So many rifles, so little time (and money) ha!
So many rifles, so little time (and money) ha!
Indeed. I am a huge 308 rifle fan. I loved my FAL. Selling it was painful but bills had to be paid. I'd love to get another FAL. I'd really love an OBR. But...
If you do not already have one I'd get an AR in 5.56 first. 5.56 is way cheaper to feed and great from 600y in.
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