.308 Battle Rifle Poll

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Wow a lot of very "Emotional" responses.
You guys really love your....... ( fill in the bank )
Hey me too, I own all of the suggested MBR's (except the AR-10)
3-L1-A1's
2-HK-91's
1-Springfield M1-A
and also 2-Cetme's , 1- Norinco M-14 (Reworked and Re-heat treated)
And I have used many more examples of the one listed above. I have seen the military versions used in unbelievable conditions overseas with seemingly no ill effects to the weapon. I have had the opportunity to shoot a few and also to be shot at by more then a few of them in the service to this country.
And I can honestly say I could not fault anyone for choosing ANY of the given choices They are all FINE weapons and you would be well served by any of them. But why choose. I never understood the "my gun is better then yours thing",Or the "I have this gun so what you have is crap".
It's not like a woman, Have as many as you can afford. go on your M-14 won't Get jealous.
But you asked which one, so OK if I HAD to choose( and I say this with No personal ax to grind) if they were all laying on the table,
I would pick up the FAL..... Cause" I LIKE IT" that why, and for no other reason.....
 
spartanpride said:
One question about the M1A, seeing how they seem to be superbly accurate, would you shoot cheap steal cased ammo through your beloved M1A? Or would you just stick with brass cased, as they seem to be a bit easier on parts?
Click to expand...
I know this doesn't answer your question about the M1A but I thought I'd throw it out anyway. I was browsing the DSA website and they have a warning about shooting steel cased ammo. They say not to do it in their FALs. They are very expensive rifles with a good rep but I wonder if they are setting them up to be bench rifles, MBR or safe queens in camoflauge.
 
I've seen a couple of posts where folks talk about putting the heavier loads through the M1A/M14. It needs to be said, that without an adjustable gas plug, that you should absolutely NOT shoot heavy factory ammo through the platform. You will damage your rifle. You can shoot heavy bullets, but you have to be sure that they are not pushing beyond 2700 FPS to avoid damage. A heavy, factory hunting load can bend your op-rod and do other damage.
 
Do they [the Swiss] still do that [issue a 7.62x51mm to all qualified male citizens]?
Click to expand...
No, but they do issue a Sig 550 (FA 5.56NATO) to every man IIRC.

I was browsing the DSA website and they have a warning about shooting steel cased ammo. They say not to do it in their FALs. They are very expensive rifles with a good rep but I wonder if they are setting them up to be bench rifles, MBR or safe queens in camoflauge.
Click to expand...
Just about every rifle manufacturer has the same warning. It doesn't mean that they won't eat it up all day long...because IME it will.

:)
 
Originally Posted by spartanpride View Post
One question about the M1A, seeing how they seem to be superbly accurate, would you shoot cheap steal cased ammo through your beloved M1A? Or would you just stick with brass cased, as they seem to be a bit easier on parts
Click to expand...
Steel case in an M1A is a NO GO.
 
FN, M14 would be good, not a bolt action rifle that would horrible in a fire fight, other than to stay and provide cover fire from a distance, just my input.

Ron
 
I went with the PTR-91 F from JLD Enterprises

Honestly, I asked the same question and made a decision and I came up with "A) Quality HK 91F build". I actually narrowed it down to these 4 decisions as well. I'm not gonna say one is better than the other I think they all carry their own but this is the choice I made.

My first criterias had to be this....

1. Legality: A legally own-able version of one of these rifles. I live in Wisconsin so really that means Federal laws and no full auto.

2. Accuracy and reliability: It's excellent, sub 1" moa at 100yds with no modifications (except scope). Definitely needs a sweeter trigger though. The pull is too hard even though the gun is heavy it's still easy to pull the gun to the side with a poor trigger squeeze. So if you want a hair splitter you'll invest in a new trigger. But even with the factory heavy trigger it's frigging dead on. 18" barrel and quality ammo and you have a good shot to at least 300yds with minimal practice. I'd bet with a skilled shooter and a nicer trigger you could double that.

Also, the reliability is outstanding. Over a thousand rounds fired and no mis-feeds, at least 2 different types of surplus ammo and store bought federal and Winchester soft point/hollow point (expanding/hunting type) ammunition. Only malfunctions came from nursing the bolt forward and a couple misfires. Nothing worse than having a loud clanking noise from releasing the action in the morning before walking out to your hunt but then again it wasn't really meant for that either.

3. Practicality: parts, price, etc.. - Price was comparable to the others, it's also practical for deer hunting even though you get looks here and there. .308 is great for whitetail deer and no I don't fill the entire 20rnd magazine. Parts are easy to come by if your comfortable with online shopping but honestly local gun stores tend to lack greatly in my area with this type of gun but I've managed well with good consumer/shopping techniques.

4. Ergonomics (weight, function): this is wear the gun suffers and as you can see from my decision making I choose to live with it.

A) I'm big, I had to put an extension on the stock of the PTR91 in order to get a comfortable length of pull and cheek weld, the stock is just short. After the rubber pad on the end it was fine.
B) The stanag claw mount sits the scope high which is a bonus cause you get the excellent HK adjustable drum sight and a scope over it but really NOT a super good cheek weld but again if you practice it will still work.
C) The cocking handle is weird to get used to. It folds forward on release and then you have to pull hard to unfold to cock back the handle/bolt-career. This sucks but I believe is a result of the roller locking system on the bolt career needs to be pried/leveraged otherwise you'll jerk the bolt career back when clambering(?) but again you'll get used to it with use and proper practice/procedure for reloading.
D) It's heavy but of course thus is the nature of these guns.
E) The mag release is awkward to reach but as I understand a result of law making/legality at one point. You can fix it by replacing it with surplus parts.

Weight and ergonomics got stuck in last. I think some would definitely argue with this statement but.... If you want to use a gun well, practice using it. Don't expect it to conform to you, this is the nature of improvising as well as skilled use. With that said I love my PTR-91. And weirdness is easily remedied with training as well as it's reliability an accuracy make up for it's flaws.

PTR-91.jpg


PTR-91_2.jpg
 
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FAL is cool. This one is an SAR 48. $1100 & it's yours...
 

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Wow lots of info to think about in this thread.

So I thought I would just throw in some random thoughts I had on it.

G3 system.
Cheap mags (you can get the alloy ones for a buck or less), Parts are avalible and not to spendy (not what I would call Cheap). There are US made parts being made for it now so thats a plus. Hard on brass if your going to reload. Some of the accessorys (the real H&K type) can get pretty costly but there cool to have (22cal conversion, trainning bolt and ammo, collapsable stock, Scope and mount and so on) Not real paractical to rebuild in the field if needed.

Fal System
Mags not as cheap as they use to be. Parts seem to be a bit more avalible then the G3 ones. Some of the parts are getting pretty costly (barrels, Imbel Receivers and such) Some US made parts about. Pretty easy on the brass for reloading (it dose leave a bit of a dent on the case if the gas system is set high) Some of the OEM accessorys are real costly (Scopes and mounts, the 22cal converson Orignals not aftermarket ones) They are easy to build or rebuild by yourself.

M14 system
Mags not cheap but not out of this world cost wise. Cheap USGI parts?? Tell me where. Try to find a USGI bolt for less then $100. Now if you bought a bunch of parts when the CMP had them your sitting in tall cotten. I don't have an issue with the Springfield Inc receivers (but thats just me) I have two of them and they work just fine. With the exception of the barrel, this is one of the most rebuildable rifles on the list (as far as I am concerned) Minamum tools needed to replace parts. If you use only USGI parts (not cheap) I have had little to know problems with them fitting. It seems a bit on the long side ( the 18" bbl would take care of that) During the 90s I fired a bit of the chinese steel case ammo out of one and never had an issue with it. But it was the copper washed type ammo.

308 AR
I have no real expereance with a 308 cal one. Shot a lot of 5.56mm M16s and ARs. I like them well enough and would think that a 308 would work about the same if it was a quality one. The cost of mags is coming down (and quality going up) a good thing. I don't know if the parts will interchange between a 308 one and 5.56 one. But that would be nice if they did.

One that you might think about adding.

USGI M1 Garand
Have it rebarreld to 308. Clips are still pretty cheap. You can leave them loaded and not worry about springs taking a set. USGI parts are still pretty much avalable and don't cost an arm and a leg (some of the parts are getting harder to get and more expensive though) It dosn't have the EBR look which might pay off in some situations. Acurate and reliable. A welth of info on how to make it more accurate. Reloading data abounds. If you can live with the 8 round limit you would be good to go. I would look at a service grade from the CMP ( www.odcmp.com ) and then maybe buy a rack grade or two for parts.


Now as for which one would I pick as my one and only?? Tie between the M14 and the Fal. (Thank god we can own all of them if we want too)

WB
 
One question about the M1A, seeing how they seem to be superbly accurate, would you shoot cheap steal cased ammo through your beloved M1A? Or would you just stick with brass cased, as they seem to be a bit easier on parts?
Click to expand...

If it was the Zombie Apocalypse or Red Dawn, and the only ammo I could find was steel cased, I'd use it. But I do generally find brass cased 147 gr FMJ to be readily available and cheap enough to. This is more out of concern over the ammunition than the rifle. I am pretty sure the rifle could take it, but I don't trust the ammo not to have a boo-boo in My Precious. If a steel cased Wolf round blows a primer or something in my $200 SKS or even my ninja'd Rommy AK, and damages the rifle, it'll piss me off, but it won't be nearly as tragic as the same incident in my $1300 M1A.
 
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