What knife (metal ) that holds it sharpness
- Thread starter nathan
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paintballdude902
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very high carbon steel
i like 1095 which is whats used for the kabar my kabar has been sharbened 2 times 1time after skinning 2 bears in the same day and another after i let a friend cut a 30,000lbs tow strap and kept hitting the town hook
just check the number the higher the better
i like 1095 which is whats used for the kabar my kabar has been sharbened 2 times 1time after skinning 2 bears in the same day and another after i let a friend cut a 30,000lbs tow strap and kept hitting the town hook
just check the number the higher the better
Sagetown
Member
Putting any good blade to use requires some honing with a steel after skinning a large animal or two.
Commercial Butchers on the kill floor carry a steel on their belt and will slap their knife on it a few licks from time to time while skinning out beef, non stop, hour after hour.
Commercial Butchers on the kill floor carry a steel on their belt and will slap their knife on it a few licks from time to time while skinning out beef, non stop, hour after hour.
MCgunner
Member
I've got a Gator Serator I really like as a field knife. I use a Gerber fixed blade for skinning/butchering. I'll get though about a hog with it, dress the edge, do another. I like it, shaving sharp edge and for a 25 dollar Walmart knife, works fine for me. More money will buy a better blade, but I don't really need better. I have a steel and sharpeners that work. I think Gerber makes the best blades for the money. There are better knives out there, though, for more money.
I have a Case Kodiak that's amazing, can shave your face with that thing. It holds an edge well. I think they're going for 160 bucks now or so. I got it for a Christmas present back about 1975. I haven't used it all THAT much because the thing is HUGE, too big for a skinning knife. Sure is a heckuva quality blade, for a stainless knife, though.
I have a Case Kodiak that's amazing, can shave your face with that thing. It holds an edge well. I think they're going for 160 bucks now or so. I got it for a Christmas present back about 1975. I haven't used it all THAT much because the thing is HUGE, too big for a skinning knife. Sure is a heckuva quality blade, for a stainless knife, though.
Steel
D-2 steel. Never feels real sharp, but it will be sharper than it feels. Very abrasion resistant, tough tool steel. Will dull to a certain degree and then stay there for a very long time. I know an Alaskan Guide that worked up 4 Grizzly bears and one Brown bear without sharpening his.
D-2 steel. Never feels real sharp, but it will be sharper than it feels. Very abrasion resistant, tough tool steel. Will dull to a certain degree and then stay there for a very long time. I know an Alaskan Guide that worked up 4 Grizzly bears and one Brown bear without sharpening his.
Darthbauer
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S30V. My benchmade 610 is still sharper than hell and i use it for everything.
Funderb
Member
the harder the steel the longer the edge and the longer the sharpen to get there.
Some friends and I were butchering a few buffalo in a barn, using hunting knives.
Apart from that being a serious, exhausting b*tch that took more than 10 hours for a whole group of us to do, it dulled knives like nobody's business.
We ended up sharpening them with strap leather every 30 minutes or so. They cut through meat like a knife through butter, but only for about a half-hour. Soon, they started to feel like old pocket knives, even though these were some high-end hunting knives, some of them hand made customs.
There's no getting around having to sharpen a knife, frequently, if you want it to be really sharp.
Apart from that being a serious, exhausting b*tch that took more than 10 hours for a whole group of us to do, it dulled knives like nobody's business.
We ended up sharpening them with strap leather every 30 minutes or so. They cut through meat like a knife through butter, but only for about a half-hour. Soon, they started to feel like old pocket knives, even though these were some high-end hunting knives, some of them hand made customs.
There's no getting around having to sharpen a knife, frequently, if you want it to be really sharp.
Kingcreek
Member
I am really surprised nobody has mentioned heat-treating yet. the best designer steel is nothing without a proper HT.
My favorite working knives are by Bob Dozier and MadPoet of D2 steel (all with HT by Paul Bos), and an old Marble's 1095. I also like my hand forged high carbon by Kaj Vikstrom and Heimo Roselli.
My favorite working knives are by Bob Dozier and MadPoet of D2 steel (all with HT by Paul Bos), and an old Marble's 1095. I also like my hand forged high carbon by Kaj Vikstrom and Heimo Roselli.
Any knife with S30V steel will hold and edge very well. I also like high carbon steel blades (1095 - etc.).
For $10.98, here's a skinner that would serve you very well.
Frosts Mora Clipper Carbon Knife 840
SKU: F840
FROSTS MORA CLIPPER KNIFE WITH 3 7/8" BLADE .079" THICK MADE OF SWEDISH HIGH CARBON STEEL.THERMOPLASTIC SHEATH WITH BELT CLIP AND DRAIN HOLE.SOLID PLASTIC HANDLE WITH RUBBER NON-SLIP GRIP.
RAZOR SHARP MADE IN SWEDEN
PRICE: $10.98
http://www.bensbackwoods.com/servlet/Categories?category=Knives:MORA+of+SWEDEN
If you get one, make sure you treat the blade (patina).
Here's one of mine that I treated the blade (let the blade soak) in vinegar overnight (Or, you can stick the blade in an onion and leave it overnight.):
For $10.98, here's a skinner that would serve you very well.
Frosts Mora Clipper Carbon Knife 840
SKU: F840
FROSTS MORA CLIPPER KNIFE WITH 3 7/8" BLADE .079" THICK MADE OF SWEDISH HIGH CARBON STEEL.THERMOPLASTIC SHEATH WITH BELT CLIP AND DRAIN HOLE.SOLID PLASTIC HANDLE WITH RUBBER NON-SLIP GRIP.
RAZOR SHARP MADE IN SWEDEN
PRICE: $10.98
http://www.bensbackwoods.com/servlet/Categories?category=Knives:MORA+of+SWEDEN
If you get one, make sure you treat the blade (patina).
Here's one of mine that I treated the blade (let the blade soak) in vinegar overnight (Or, you can stick the blade in an onion and leave it overnight.):
Attachments
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Sagetown
Member
Hey Big Bill:
What method do you use to do that? Is there need to protect the knife handle?
I don't think so, but I'm a cautious guy anyway. I gave several Moras to my sons for their birthdays in 08, and they were high carbon and I had treated them in several different ways. BTW, my sons were ticlkled with them.
I really like the way an onion mottles the blade. It's cool! For vinegar, I just use a small, tall cup and fill it to the height of the blade and position the knife blade in the liquid so that it gets all the blade and not the handle. Then I just leave it overnight, but a few hours would probably also be enough. Some people even use mustard or an orange. And, I also tried both of them but didn't like the mustard very much. The patina will protect a high carbon blade from rust, and it does work very well.
BTW, I used to hunt coyotes for money (for the pelts) years ago, and I wish I had know about Moras back then. It sure would have made skinning much easier.
Sagetown
Member
Big Bill when you heat the blade, do you warm it up, or get it red hot ? If red hot, won't that affect the handle?
edited: p.s. what is (patina)????
edited: p.s. what is (patina)????
Sagetown
Member
Oooh! Okay;:banghead: I'm so thickheaded I had mis-interpreted your post. Kingcreek was talking about heat treating, and I was going by that.
Thanks Big Bill
Sage
Sagetown
Member
ERROR....--- made a double post somehow.......
Well, here's the dictionary definition:
Main Entry: pa·ti·na
Pronunciation: \pə-ˈtē-nə, ˈpa-tə-nə\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural pa·ti·nas \-nəz\ or pa·ti·nae \-ˌnē, -ˌnī\
Etymology: Italian, from Latin, shallow dish — more at paten
Date: 1748
1 a: a usually green film formed naturally on copper and bronze by long exposure or artificially (as by acids) and often valued aesthetically for its color b: a surface appearance of something grown beautiful especially with age or use
2: an appearance or aura that is derived from association, habit, or established character
3: a superficial covering or exterior
My blades turn almost black and they seem to get darker over time. It is coating using the natural acid in the onion or vinegar.
This is from another site:
Patina IS RUST!
There are two kinds of rust(basically, simplistically). Red rust, and black rust. ONe occurs in the presence of an oxygen surplus. The other occurs in the presence of limited oxygen.
Black rust does a semi-adequate job of sealing out the oxygen...especially if coated with oil. What this means is that once the surface is completely covered with black rust, it makes it a little less likely for red rust to form.
Other names for black rust:
1. black oxide
2. gun bluing
3. Fe3O4
4. Magnetite
Red rust is expansive. Black rust is not. What this means is that when iron turns into red rust, it gets bigger, or takes up more space. You do NOT want this. In addition to being porous, red rust will crack, crunch, and chip-off the iron surface as it "grows" bigger...continuously exposing new iron to more oxygen for oxidation. Even when red rust LOOKS uniform and solid, it is actually covered with teeny tiny little cracks and pits and pores and chunks just waiting to pop off.
Remember those little black "snakes" that you lit on the fourth of july? I think of red rust as a very slow motion type of "snake". You start with some hard solid material and it grows into light fluffy useless material that easily disintegrates into nothing. Black rust would be like a coating of wax on that snake making it more difficult to light it on fire...but not impossible.
There are two kinds of rust(basically, simplistically). Red rust, and black rust. ONe occurs in the presence of an oxygen surplus. The other occurs in the presence of limited oxygen.
Black rust does a semi-adequate job of sealing out the oxygen...especially if coated with oil. What this means is that once the surface is completely covered with black rust, it makes it a little less likely for red rust to form.
Other names for black rust:
1. black oxide
2. gun bluing
3. Fe3O4
4. Magnetite
Red rust is expansive. Black rust is not. What this means is that when iron turns into red rust, it gets bigger, or takes up more space. You do NOT want this. In addition to being porous, red rust will crack, crunch, and chip-off the iron surface as it "grows" bigger...continuously exposing new iron to more oxygen for oxidation. Even when red rust LOOKS uniform and solid, it is actually covered with teeny tiny little cracks and pits and pores and chunks just waiting to pop off.
Remember those little black "snakes" that you lit on the fourth of july? I think of red rust as a very slow motion type of "snake". You start with some hard solid material and it grows into light fluffy useless material that easily disintegrates into nothing. Black rust would be like a coating of wax on that snake making it more difficult to light it on fire...but not impossible.
45crittergitter
Member
Gobs of steel info
Well OK, you asked for it
A-2: An excellent air-hardening tool steel with 5% Cr, known for its great toughness and good edge holding. Its outstanding toughness makes it a frequent choice for combat knives. Deeper hardening and more wear-resistant than O-1, and holds a keener cutting edge. More readily machined than high C, high Cr grades.
ATS-34: Japanese high carbon, high chrome/moly stainless by Hitachi. 13½-14½% Cr. Very good combination of sharpening, edge-holding, rust resistance and strength. See 154-CM. Superfine grain structure = edge holding. Rc 60-62.
ATS-55: Similar to ATS-34, but with the Mo removed and some other elements added. Not much is known about this steel yet, apparently intent was ATS-34 edge-holding with increased toughness at a lower price.
AUS-6 or 6A: Japanese medium to high carbon stainless. .65% C. Basically 440-A with added V. Tougher than ATS-34, 440-C, ATS-55, etc., but still holds a good edge. 440-C is better. Particularly well suited for heavier, longer blades that are subjected to a lot of stress while chopping and hacking.
AUS-8 or 8A: Japanese low carbon, high chromium stainless roughly comparable to 440-B. .75% C. Has some V, which 440-B lacks. Good compromise between toughness, strength, edge holding and resistance to corrosion. As heat treated by Cold Steel, won’t hold an edge like ATS-34. According to Cold Steel, the only equal to AUS-8 in strength and toughness is AUS-10.
AUS-10 or 10A: Japanese high carbon stainless roughly comparable to 440-C, with slightly less Cr. 1.1% C. Has some V, which 440-C lacks. Equal in strength and toughness to AUS 8, but has an additional 20% in edge holding ability, giving it a claimed wide performance advantage over ATS-34, ATS-55 and 440V.
BG-42: Stainless bearing steel, but will rust. BG-42 is 440-C modified with the addition of 3.5% Mo and 1.2% V for added wear resistance and hardness retention at high heats. Best(?) edge holding steel. A VIM/VAR ingot steel. The blade gains advantages in toughness and grain structure by using ball bearing steels. Has a fine grain structure and takes and holds an exceptionally sharp edge. Can be hardened to Rc 60 which will hold a thin edge. Doesn’t finish as smooth as ATS-34. Chosen for its high V content and tight carbide structure. American steel, manufactured in Latrobe, Penn. Greg Lightfoot recommends it highly. Chris Reeve has tested this steel extensively and believes it to be superior to anything else available on the market, including ATS-34. Has a higher Cr content (14½%), superior edge-holding ability, hardness and brute strength. Offers about the best balance of properties for a stainless steel - that or CPM 420V. Not as tough as some of the toughest steels here; however tougher than the stainless steels and holds an edge better. No stainless is really that tough, compared to a non-stainless tool steel like A-2 or CPM3V. Will hold an edge longer, and get sharper than 420V. Use 56-60 Rc, but starts to get brittle at 60 Rc. At 61 Rc, BG-42 is going to get sharper, but, the 420V has the advantage of working at a lower hardness. Both will offer about equal corrosion resistance-they are exceptionally pure, clean steels, and have roughly the same free Cr. Either of these steels rules over ATS-34. A bit more expensive than ATS-34.
Carbon V: High carbon, low alloy cutlery grade steel, “specially treated” with precise heat treatment to make it extra tough, with good edge holding capability. A trademarked term by Cold Steel; not necessarily one particular kind of steel, rather, it is whatever steel Cold Steel happens to be using at the time. Performs roughly between 1095-ish and O-1-ish, and rusts like O-1 as well. Rumors are that Carbon V is O-1 (unlikely) or 1095. Numerous industry insiders insist it is 0170-6. Some spark tests seem to indicate 50100-B. Since 50100-B and 0170-6 are the same steel (see below), this is likely the current Carbon V. Carbon V knives are hardened to Rc 59.
Ceramics: Usually very very brittle, and cannot be sharpened by the user; however, they hold an edge well. Not as sharp as the best steels. Kevin “Mad Dog” McClung recently came out with a ceramic composite knife blade that much tougher than the previous ceramics, tough enough to actually be useful as a knife blade for most jobs. It is also user-sharpenable, and holds an edge incredibly well. Zirconia is a material of great hardness included in ceramic used in making ceramic blades and used as grain on grinding belts for grinding knives. Böker ceramic is zircon oxide.
Cera-Titan: Titanium, ceramic & silver. Gives up a little of ceramic’s edge holding for less brittleness, but better edge holding than top stainless. Holds an edge like ceramic with toughness closer to steel.
Cobalt & Stellite 6K: A flexible material with very good wear resistance, it is practically 100% corrosion resistant. Has an edge-holding capability that far exceeds even the best of today’s stainless steels. Stellite 6K, sometimes seen in knives, is a cobalt alloy. See Talonite. (David Boye)
CPM T420V (& CPM T440V): Offer about the best balance of properties for a stainless steel-that or BG-42. Holds an edge not as long or sharp as BG-42, but better than ATS-34. Edge holding ability is said to be 2 - 3x better than 440-C at 57 - 58RC. There are a few other powder metal steels that will give similar performance but none that are measurably better at edge holding. However, it’s difficult to get the edge there in the first place. Depending on heat treatment, expect to have to work a bit harder to sharpen these steels. Works at a lower hardness. Less tough than ATS-34. Exceptionally pure, clean steel. Both high in V. 420V is CPM’s follow-on to 440V, and with less Cr and almost double the V, is more wear-resistant and may be tougher than 440V. Rc 56-57.
CPM 10V: Another CPM steel. Edge holding ability is said to be 2-3x better than 440-C at 57-58Rc. Toughness equal to M-2 and D-2, with increased wear resistance.
CPM S30V: Premium American cutlery stainless. Powder made with uniform carbide distribution structure and clean steel properties. Excellent corrosion resistance. Extremely fine grain, excellent edge retention and superb edge qualities. The V content allows for the formation of vanadium carbides resulting in edge holding that is independent of hardness. Wide range of applications depending on heat treatment. 2-3 times the pry bar strength of 154 CM. Some judge superior to ATS-34 and BG-42. Hot new steel.
Damascus: Remarkable toughness and edge quality.
Damasteel RWL34/PMC27: Made with powder metal technology and has no welds as with traditional Damascus steels. Two or more different metals in powder form are fused together with heat and pressure. Damascene steels consist of two different steel grades, welded in over a hundred layers. After etching, one of the steel grades turns dark and a beautiful pattern appears on the surface.
D1.4: Solingen stainless.
D2: High carbon, high chrome tool die steel. THE outstanding high C, high Cr tool steel for general use. The most important characteristic of this air hardening tool die steel is its resistance to wear or abrasion. “D” series steels are classed as Cold Work Tool Steels, high C, high Cr type. Very tough, but may be a little less tough than some of the other steels mentioned. Holds an edge very well, possibly better than BG-42. High impact resistance. Takes hard use well (chopping). Cuts and holds an edge better than most steels, including M-2, 1095, AUS-8, ATS-34 and VG-10. Fairly high in Cr (12%). Good corrosion resistance, but will pit and rust. Sometimes called a “semi-stainless.” Does not take a beautiful finish. Outstanding knife steel; one of the few that is “tougher than a cob” at 60-61 Rc. Can be hardened far beyond the favored 60-61 Rc. 440XH is stainless D-2.
G-2 or GIN-1: Stainless with less C and more Cr and much less Mo than ATS-34. Offers nearly the same qualities as 154-CM or ATS-34 but is slightly more corrosion resistant. Very good stainless steel. Cheaper.
H1: A high-Cr stainless which offers 100% corrosion resistance in both salt and fresh water. Tradeoff is good edge quality and good edge toughness. Good rescue/dive/emergency knife.
L-6: A band saw steel that is very tough and holds an edge well, but rusts easily. Like O-1, it is a forgiving steel for the forger. If you’re willing to put up with the maintenance, this may be one of the very best steels available for cutlery, especially where toughness is desired.
M-2: High speed non-stainless steel. Very tough tool grade steel used for cutting steel. Tougher, sharper, and holds an edge better than ATS-34. High impact strength with incredible edge holding properties, but perhaps more brittle than typical premium blades. Extraordinary abrasion resistance and superb toughness. At a Rockwell hardness of 62 Rc it exhibits extreme toughness, with no signs of brittleness, and edge retention that is superior to most other blade materials. Works well at 62-66 Rc. Highly susceptible to corrosion and will rust unless properly maintained.
M-4: Chemical content nearly identical to M-2 except for 4% V instead of 2%; is capable of nearly twice the wear life.
MBS-26: Japanese oil-quenched stainless.
N690: An Austrian made stainless, comparable to 440C in performance and value. Keen edge qualities with excellent corrosion resistance.
O-1 and O-2: The most widely used general purpose oil hardening tool and die steels. Good combination of hardness and toughness. Strong, takes a very good edge, sharpens very easily. Superior edge to ATS-34 and 440-C. Very popular with forgers; has the reputation for being “forgiving.” Excellent steels that take and hold an edge superbly, and are very tough. Rusts easily. Use Rc 56-57.
RWL34: A Swedish powder metal stainless.
San Mai III: San Mai means “three layers.” Provides a superior blade with hard (higher carbon) stainless steel in the middle core/edge for a keen, long lasting edge inside two layers of tougher (lower-carbon) spring tempered stainless steel along the sides for flexibility and support. 25% stronger than AUS 8A.
Sandvik: A tool steel made in Sweden. Swedish steel has always been a premium steel for tools because the iron ore is very clean, that is, with very little sulfur or phosphorus.
Sandvik 13C-26: High carbon stainless tool steel.
Sandvik 19C27: High carbon, high chromium stainless. At 60-62 Rc the steel is highly wear resistant for edge holding and corrosion resistance.
Sandvik LV-04: Closed-die-forged high carbon stainless tool steel.
T15: A “Super High Speed Steel.” Not suitable for knives.
T5MOV: High carbon stainless.
Talonite/Stellite: A cobalt-chromium alloy formula based on Stellite, now owned by a Canadian firm. This material is many times as wear resistant as the finest knife steel, and contains no iron, which also makes it rust free and non-magnetic. Low on the Rockwell scale but excellent abrasion resistance. Will hold an edge as well as stellite; many times better than even the best stainless steels on the market today. Not hard to sharpen. Totally rust resistant and will hold surface qualities over hundreds of years of exposure to corrosive elements. Has a matrix of carbides in the alloy that give this material its performance characteristics. When the cutting edge feels dull to the touch, it will continue to cut due to the presence of the carbide matrix. Slightly softer than stainless steel, making it easier to sharpen. Ni 3% max, Si 2% max, Fe 3% max, Mn 2% max, Cr 28-32%, Mo 1.5% max, W 3.5-5.5%, C 0.9-1.4%, balance Co. See Cobalt & Stellite.
Titanium: Newer titanium alloys can be hardened near 50 Rc, and at that hardness seem to take something approaching a useful edge. Extremely rust-resistant, and non-magnetic. Slightly lighter than steel, extremely strong and resilient.
Vascowear: A very hard-to-find steel, with a high vanadium content. Extremely difficult to work and very wear-resistant. Out of production.
VG-10: Produced by a small foundry in Honshu island in Japan. An ingot steel. A good combination of “stuff” carefully blended. Cutting performance similar to ATS-34, but without quite the same brittleness and sharpening difficulties. Looks like a real winner of a steel, only seriously outperformed by carbon steels and particle stainless types. Edge holding below O-1 and D-2 on soft materials. Significantly superior to ATS-34 & 55 in corrosion resistance. In edge retention, at least as good as and often better than ATS steels. VG-10 is today’s hot new stainless steel for heavy duty folders, said to hold an edge better than ATS-34. It will certainly hold an edge better than AUS8A.
W-1: The same as W-2 except for the V content (W-1 has no V). Most files are made from W-1, also called a spring steel.
W-2: Reasonably tough and holds an edge well, due to its 0.2% V.
X15 T.N: French steel developed for jet engine ball bearings and scalpels. Superior rust resistance, with ample edge retention and an easy to maintain edge. Great for salt water environments.
XT70: Stainless, 55 Rc. (Katz)
XT80: Stainless, 59 Rc. Excellent ability to retain an edge, claimed better than 440-C or ATS-34. Probably a version of 440-C, with about 1% C and 12-14% Cr. (Katz)
Z60CDV14: A clean high carbon Swedish stainless. Higher in Ni and Mo than AUS-8, with a little less C. Good balance between ease of sharpening and edge retention.
9Cr14MoV: Chinese made steel similar to AUS-8. Value steel.
9Cr13CoMoV: Chinese made high-carbon stainless with increased Co for greater edge retention. High level of corrosion resistance. Good value.
154-CM: High carbon, high chrome/moly stainless, nearly identical to ATS-34, but possibly superior, made in USA by Crucible Steel for tough industrial applications. Also called 440-C Modified. Exceptional wear resistance. Has super-fine grain structure for excellent lasting edge sharpness. Normally hardened to around 60 Rc, it holds an edge very well and is tough enough even at that high hardness. Good all-around qualities. Great corrosion resistance, though not quite as rust resistant as the 400 series.
300 Series and “Surgical stainless”: Useless cutlery stainless.
“400 Series” Stainless: Probably 420J2 or 440-A, but there’s nothing to keep a company from using any 4xx steel, like 420 or 425-M, and calling it 400 Series Stainless.
410: Worse than 420J2
420J2: Softer, cheaper, ~0.15% carbon stainless tool steel, with Rc <53-55??
420: Lower carbon content (<0.5%) than the 440 series makes this steel extremely soft, and it doesn’t hold an edge well. Used often for diving knives, as it is extremely stain resistant. Also used often for very inexpensive knives. Outside of salt water use, it is too soft to be a good choice for a utility knife.
420HC: 420 High Carbon. Buck has ion fused some of its 420HC SS blades with titanium (or zirconium?) nitride (TiN) to produce a surface that is >80 Rc and holds an edge five times longer than standard blades. Performs well with proper heat treatment.
425-M (& 425?) & 12C27: Both are very similar to 440-A. 425-M has 0.5% C. 12C27 (0.6% C) is a Scandanavian steel used often in Finish and Norwegian knives. Cheap stainless. Soft and malleable?
440-A: Mid grade stainless. Most “plain” 440 is 440-A. Rc 56-59.
440-C: High grade (Solingen) high chromium stainless that holds edge well, not too hard to sharpen, doesn’t rust. Terrific balance of good hardness and corrosion resistance. Better than 440-A. Most popular. Use Rc 58-60.
440-C Modified: Same as 154-CM.
440-A, 440-B, 440-C: The carbon content (and hardenability) of this stainless steel goes up in order from A (.75%) to B (.9%) to C (1.2%). 440-C is an excellent, high-end stainless steel, usually hardened to around 56-60 Rc. All three resist rust well, with 440-A being the most rust resistant, and 440-C the least. A knife marked with just “440” is probably the less expensive 440-A; if a manufacturer had used the more expensive 440-C, he’d want to advertise that. Generally 440-A (and similar steels) is just good enough for everyday use, especially with a good heat treat (SOG). 440-B is a very solid performer and 440-C is excellent.
440XH: Stainless D-2.
SAE rates steel with a four-digit number. The first two digits refer to the steel “group,” the second pair to the amount of carbon present in 10ths of a percent. 1095 ~0.95% C, 52100 ~1.0% C, 5160 ~0.60% C. In the SAE system, steels with letter designations (W-2, A-2) are tool steels. In the AISI steel system, 10xx is carbon steel, any other steels are alloy steels. Ex: the 50xx series are chromium steels.
10XX, 11XX, 12XX, 15XX: The carbon steel group, a basic multi-use steel. Most standard OEM axles are 1040-grade. These grades all carry from 1.00 to 1.65% Mn. Generally very ductile but not particularly strong. They require careful hardening to be used as a bearing surface.
The 10-series; 1095 (and 1084, 1070, 1060, 1050, etc.): 1095 is the most popular for knives. In order from 1095-1050, you generally go from more carbon to less, from better edge holding to less edge holding, and tough to tougher to toughest. 1060 and 1050 are used often for swords.
1040: Carbon steel used for axles. Can be made strong with proper heat treatment. Cost effective. Avg. yield 110,000 psi, avg. tensile 125,000 psi.
1050: Carbon steel used for axles. Extra C vs. 1040 makes it respond better to heat treatment. More expensive than 1040, but still cost effective. Avg. yield 140,000 psi, avg. tensile 160,000 psi.
1084: A good all around steel that holds an edge well when properly hardened and drawn.
1095: Sort of the “standard” carbon steel, not too expensive and performs well. Reasonably tough and holds an edge very well. Rusts easily. A simple steel, which contains only two alloying elements: ~0.95% C and 0.4% Mn. The various Kabars are usually 1095 with a black coating.
1541H: Carbon steel used for high performance auto parts. The 15-series carbon steels have more Mn than the 10-series. This makes it respond even better to heat treatment. The “H” indicates a dash of extra Si, which increases hardness. 1541H is more expensive to produce than other carbon steels, but is still cost effective based on its strength. Avg. yield 160,000 psi, avg. tensile 180,000 psi.
5150: Medium carbon, low alloy steel. Ideal for heat treated blades that have a very thick cross section such as tomahawks, axes, etc. Use 55-60 Rc. Extremely tough and impact resistant. (Cold Steel ‘hawks)
5160: A tough, springy steel popular with forgers, it is extremely popular now and a very high-end steel. Essentially a simple spring steel with Cr added for hardenability. Has good edge holding, but is known especially for its outstanding toughness (like L-6). Often used for swords (hardened in the low 50s Rc) and large knives because of its toughness, and is also used for hard use knives (hardened up near the 60s Rc).
52XX: Chromium steel group. Contains 1.45% Cr. A strong yet flexible alloy.
52100: A non-stainless ball-bearing steel used only by forgers. Similar to 5160 (though it has around 1% C vs. 5160 ~0.60%), but holds an edge better. Less tough than 5160, however. Exhibits many of the same advantages as BG-42. Used often for hunting knives and other knives where the user is willing to trade off a little of 5160’s toughness for better edge holding.
Well OK, you asked for it
A-2: An excellent air-hardening tool steel with 5% Cr, known for its great toughness and good edge holding. Its outstanding toughness makes it a frequent choice for combat knives. Deeper hardening and more wear-resistant than O-1, and holds a keener cutting edge. More readily machined than high C, high Cr grades.
ATS-34: Japanese high carbon, high chrome/moly stainless by Hitachi. 13½-14½% Cr. Very good combination of sharpening, edge-holding, rust resistance and strength. See 154-CM. Superfine grain structure = edge holding. Rc 60-62.
ATS-55: Similar to ATS-34, but with the Mo removed and some other elements added. Not much is known about this steel yet, apparently intent was ATS-34 edge-holding with increased toughness at a lower price.
AUS-6 or 6A: Japanese medium to high carbon stainless. .65% C. Basically 440-A with added V. Tougher than ATS-34, 440-C, ATS-55, etc., but still holds a good edge. 440-C is better. Particularly well suited for heavier, longer blades that are subjected to a lot of stress while chopping and hacking.
AUS-8 or 8A: Japanese low carbon, high chromium stainless roughly comparable to 440-B. .75% C. Has some V, which 440-B lacks. Good compromise between toughness, strength, edge holding and resistance to corrosion. As heat treated by Cold Steel, won’t hold an edge like ATS-34. According to Cold Steel, the only equal to AUS-8 in strength and toughness is AUS-10.
AUS-10 or 10A: Japanese high carbon stainless roughly comparable to 440-C, with slightly less Cr. 1.1% C. Has some V, which 440-C lacks. Equal in strength and toughness to AUS 8, but has an additional 20% in edge holding ability, giving it a claimed wide performance advantage over ATS-34, ATS-55 and 440V.
BG-42: Stainless bearing steel, but will rust. BG-42 is 440-C modified with the addition of 3.5% Mo and 1.2% V for added wear resistance and hardness retention at high heats. Best(?) edge holding steel. A VIM/VAR ingot steel. The blade gains advantages in toughness and grain structure by using ball bearing steels. Has a fine grain structure and takes and holds an exceptionally sharp edge. Can be hardened to Rc 60 which will hold a thin edge. Doesn’t finish as smooth as ATS-34. Chosen for its high V content and tight carbide structure. American steel, manufactured in Latrobe, Penn. Greg Lightfoot recommends it highly. Chris Reeve has tested this steel extensively and believes it to be superior to anything else available on the market, including ATS-34. Has a higher Cr content (14½%), superior edge-holding ability, hardness and brute strength. Offers about the best balance of properties for a stainless steel - that or CPM 420V. Not as tough as some of the toughest steels here; however tougher than the stainless steels and holds an edge better. No stainless is really that tough, compared to a non-stainless tool steel like A-2 or CPM3V. Will hold an edge longer, and get sharper than 420V. Use 56-60 Rc, but starts to get brittle at 60 Rc. At 61 Rc, BG-42 is going to get sharper, but, the 420V has the advantage of working at a lower hardness. Both will offer about equal corrosion resistance-they are exceptionally pure, clean steels, and have roughly the same free Cr. Either of these steels rules over ATS-34. A bit more expensive than ATS-34.
Carbon V: High carbon, low alloy cutlery grade steel, “specially treated” with precise heat treatment to make it extra tough, with good edge holding capability. A trademarked term by Cold Steel; not necessarily one particular kind of steel, rather, it is whatever steel Cold Steel happens to be using at the time. Performs roughly between 1095-ish and O-1-ish, and rusts like O-1 as well. Rumors are that Carbon V is O-1 (unlikely) or 1095. Numerous industry insiders insist it is 0170-6. Some spark tests seem to indicate 50100-B. Since 50100-B and 0170-6 are the same steel (see below), this is likely the current Carbon V. Carbon V knives are hardened to Rc 59.
Ceramics: Usually very very brittle, and cannot be sharpened by the user; however, they hold an edge well. Not as sharp as the best steels. Kevin “Mad Dog” McClung recently came out with a ceramic composite knife blade that much tougher than the previous ceramics, tough enough to actually be useful as a knife blade for most jobs. It is also user-sharpenable, and holds an edge incredibly well. Zirconia is a material of great hardness included in ceramic used in making ceramic blades and used as grain on grinding belts for grinding knives. Böker ceramic is zircon oxide.
Cera-Titan: Titanium, ceramic & silver. Gives up a little of ceramic’s edge holding for less brittleness, but better edge holding than top stainless. Holds an edge like ceramic with toughness closer to steel.
Cobalt & Stellite 6K: A flexible material with very good wear resistance, it is practically 100% corrosion resistant. Has an edge-holding capability that far exceeds even the best of today’s stainless steels. Stellite 6K, sometimes seen in knives, is a cobalt alloy. See Talonite. (David Boye)
CPM T420V (& CPM T440V): Offer about the best balance of properties for a stainless steel-that or BG-42. Holds an edge not as long or sharp as BG-42, but better than ATS-34. Edge holding ability is said to be 2 - 3x better than 440-C at 57 - 58RC. There are a few other powder metal steels that will give similar performance but none that are measurably better at edge holding. However, it’s difficult to get the edge there in the first place. Depending on heat treatment, expect to have to work a bit harder to sharpen these steels. Works at a lower hardness. Less tough than ATS-34. Exceptionally pure, clean steel. Both high in V. 420V is CPM’s follow-on to 440V, and with less Cr and almost double the V, is more wear-resistant and may be tougher than 440V. Rc 56-57.
CPM 10V: Another CPM steel. Edge holding ability is said to be 2-3x better than 440-C at 57-58Rc. Toughness equal to M-2 and D-2, with increased wear resistance.
CPM S30V: Premium American cutlery stainless. Powder made with uniform carbide distribution structure and clean steel properties. Excellent corrosion resistance. Extremely fine grain, excellent edge retention and superb edge qualities. The V content allows for the formation of vanadium carbides resulting in edge holding that is independent of hardness. Wide range of applications depending on heat treatment. 2-3 times the pry bar strength of 154 CM. Some judge superior to ATS-34 and BG-42. Hot new steel.
Damascus: Remarkable toughness and edge quality.
Damasteel RWL34/PMC27: Made with powder metal technology and has no welds as with traditional Damascus steels. Two or more different metals in powder form are fused together with heat and pressure. Damascene steels consist of two different steel grades, welded in over a hundred layers. After etching, one of the steel grades turns dark and a beautiful pattern appears on the surface.
D1.4: Solingen stainless.
D2: High carbon, high chrome tool die steel. THE outstanding high C, high Cr tool steel for general use. The most important characteristic of this air hardening tool die steel is its resistance to wear or abrasion. “D” series steels are classed as Cold Work Tool Steels, high C, high Cr type. Very tough, but may be a little less tough than some of the other steels mentioned. Holds an edge very well, possibly better than BG-42. High impact resistance. Takes hard use well (chopping). Cuts and holds an edge better than most steels, including M-2, 1095, AUS-8, ATS-34 and VG-10. Fairly high in Cr (12%). Good corrosion resistance, but will pit and rust. Sometimes called a “semi-stainless.” Does not take a beautiful finish. Outstanding knife steel; one of the few that is “tougher than a cob” at 60-61 Rc. Can be hardened far beyond the favored 60-61 Rc. 440XH is stainless D-2.
G-2 or GIN-1: Stainless with less C and more Cr and much less Mo than ATS-34. Offers nearly the same qualities as 154-CM or ATS-34 but is slightly more corrosion resistant. Very good stainless steel. Cheaper.
H1: A high-Cr stainless which offers 100% corrosion resistance in both salt and fresh water. Tradeoff is good edge quality and good edge toughness. Good rescue/dive/emergency knife.
L-6: A band saw steel that is very tough and holds an edge well, but rusts easily. Like O-1, it is a forgiving steel for the forger. If you’re willing to put up with the maintenance, this may be one of the very best steels available for cutlery, especially where toughness is desired.
M-2: High speed non-stainless steel. Very tough tool grade steel used for cutting steel. Tougher, sharper, and holds an edge better than ATS-34. High impact strength with incredible edge holding properties, but perhaps more brittle than typical premium blades. Extraordinary abrasion resistance and superb toughness. At a Rockwell hardness of 62 Rc it exhibits extreme toughness, with no signs of brittleness, and edge retention that is superior to most other blade materials. Works well at 62-66 Rc. Highly susceptible to corrosion and will rust unless properly maintained.
M-4: Chemical content nearly identical to M-2 except for 4% V instead of 2%; is capable of nearly twice the wear life.
MBS-26: Japanese oil-quenched stainless.
N690: An Austrian made stainless, comparable to 440C in performance and value. Keen edge qualities with excellent corrosion resistance.
O-1 and O-2: The most widely used general purpose oil hardening tool and die steels. Good combination of hardness and toughness. Strong, takes a very good edge, sharpens very easily. Superior edge to ATS-34 and 440-C. Very popular with forgers; has the reputation for being “forgiving.” Excellent steels that take and hold an edge superbly, and are very tough. Rusts easily. Use Rc 56-57.
RWL34: A Swedish powder metal stainless.
San Mai III: San Mai means “three layers.” Provides a superior blade with hard (higher carbon) stainless steel in the middle core/edge for a keen, long lasting edge inside two layers of tougher (lower-carbon) spring tempered stainless steel along the sides for flexibility and support. 25% stronger than AUS 8A.
Sandvik: A tool steel made in Sweden. Swedish steel has always been a premium steel for tools because the iron ore is very clean, that is, with very little sulfur or phosphorus.
Sandvik 13C-26: High carbon stainless tool steel.
Sandvik 19C27: High carbon, high chromium stainless. At 60-62 Rc the steel is highly wear resistant for edge holding and corrosion resistance.
Sandvik LV-04: Closed-die-forged high carbon stainless tool steel.
T15: A “Super High Speed Steel.” Not suitable for knives.
T5MOV: High carbon stainless.
Talonite/Stellite: A cobalt-chromium alloy formula based on Stellite, now owned by a Canadian firm. This material is many times as wear resistant as the finest knife steel, and contains no iron, which also makes it rust free and non-magnetic. Low on the Rockwell scale but excellent abrasion resistance. Will hold an edge as well as stellite; many times better than even the best stainless steels on the market today. Not hard to sharpen. Totally rust resistant and will hold surface qualities over hundreds of years of exposure to corrosive elements. Has a matrix of carbides in the alloy that give this material its performance characteristics. When the cutting edge feels dull to the touch, it will continue to cut due to the presence of the carbide matrix. Slightly softer than stainless steel, making it easier to sharpen. Ni 3% max, Si 2% max, Fe 3% max, Mn 2% max, Cr 28-32%, Mo 1.5% max, W 3.5-5.5%, C 0.9-1.4%, balance Co. See Cobalt & Stellite.
Titanium: Newer titanium alloys can be hardened near 50 Rc, and at that hardness seem to take something approaching a useful edge. Extremely rust-resistant, and non-magnetic. Slightly lighter than steel, extremely strong and resilient.
Vascowear: A very hard-to-find steel, with a high vanadium content. Extremely difficult to work and very wear-resistant. Out of production.
VG-10: Produced by a small foundry in Honshu island in Japan. An ingot steel. A good combination of “stuff” carefully blended. Cutting performance similar to ATS-34, but without quite the same brittleness and sharpening difficulties. Looks like a real winner of a steel, only seriously outperformed by carbon steels and particle stainless types. Edge holding below O-1 and D-2 on soft materials. Significantly superior to ATS-34 & 55 in corrosion resistance. In edge retention, at least as good as and often better than ATS steels. VG-10 is today’s hot new stainless steel for heavy duty folders, said to hold an edge better than ATS-34. It will certainly hold an edge better than AUS8A.
W-1: The same as W-2 except for the V content (W-1 has no V). Most files are made from W-1, also called a spring steel.
W-2: Reasonably tough and holds an edge well, due to its 0.2% V.
X15 T.N: French steel developed for jet engine ball bearings and scalpels. Superior rust resistance, with ample edge retention and an easy to maintain edge. Great for salt water environments.
XT70: Stainless, 55 Rc. (Katz)
XT80: Stainless, 59 Rc. Excellent ability to retain an edge, claimed better than 440-C or ATS-34. Probably a version of 440-C, with about 1% C and 12-14% Cr. (Katz)
Z60CDV14: A clean high carbon Swedish stainless. Higher in Ni and Mo than AUS-8, with a little less C. Good balance between ease of sharpening and edge retention.
9Cr14MoV: Chinese made steel similar to AUS-8. Value steel.
9Cr13CoMoV: Chinese made high-carbon stainless with increased Co for greater edge retention. High level of corrosion resistance. Good value.
154-CM: High carbon, high chrome/moly stainless, nearly identical to ATS-34, but possibly superior, made in USA by Crucible Steel for tough industrial applications. Also called 440-C Modified. Exceptional wear resistance. Has super-fine grain structure for excellent lasting edge sharpness. Normally hardened to around 60 Rc, it holds an edge very well and is tough enough even at that high hardness. Good all-around qualities. Great corrosion resistance, though not quite as rust resistant as the 400 series.
300 Series and “Surgical stainless”: Useless cutlery stainless.
“400 Series” Stainless: Probably 420J2 or 440-A, but there’s nothing to keep a company from using any 4xx steel, like 420 or 425-M, and calling it 400 Series Stainless.
410: Worse than 420J2
420J2: Softer, cheaper, ~0.15% carbon stainless tool steel, with Rc <53-55??
420: Lower carbon content (<0.5%) than the 440 series makes this steel extremely soft, and it doesn’t hold an edge well. Used often for diving knives, as it is extremely stain resistant. Also used often for very inexpensive knives. Outside of salt water use, it is too soft to be a good choice for a utility knife.
420HC: 420 High Carbon. Buck has ion fused some of its 420HC SS blades with titanium (or zirconium?) nitride (TiN) to produce a surface that is >80 Rc and holds an edge five times longer than standard blades. Performs well with proper heat treatment.
425-M (& 425?) & 12C27: Both are very similar to 440-A. 425-M has 0.5% C. 12C27 (0.6% C) is a Scandanavian steel used often in Finish and Norwegian knives. Cheap stainless. Soft and malleable?
440-A: Mid grade stainless. Most “plain” 440 is 440-A. Rc 56-59.
440-C: High grade (Solingen) high chromium stainless that holds edge well, not too hard to sharpen, doesn’t rust. Terrific balance of good hardness and corrosion resistance. Better than 440-A. Most popular. Use Rc 58-60.
440-C Modified: Same as 154-CM.
440-A, 440-B, 440-C: The carbon content (and hardenability) of this stainless steel goes up in order from A (.75%) to B (.9%) to C (1.2%). 440-C is an excellent, high-end stainless steel, usually hardened to around 56-60 Rc. All three resist rust well, with 440-A being the most rust resistant, and 440-C the least. A knife marked with just “440” is probably the less expensive 440-A; if a manufacturer had used the more expensive 440-C, he’d want to advertise that. Generally 440-A (and similar steels) is just good enough for everyday use, especially with a good heat treat (SOG). 440-B is a very solid performer and 440-C is excellent.
440XH: Stainless D-2.
SAE rates steel with a four-digit number. The first two digits refer to the steel “group,” the second pair to the amount of carbon present in 10ths of a percent. 1095 ~0.95% C, 52100 ~1.0% C, 5160 ~0.60% C. In the SAE system, steels with letter designations (W-2, A-2) are tool steels. In the AISI steel system, 10xx is carbon steel, any other steels are alloy steels. Ex: the 50xx series are chromium steels.
10XX, 11XX, 12XX, 15XX: The carbon steel group, a basic multi-use steel. Most standard OEM axles are 1040-grade. These grades all carry from 1.00 to 1.65% Mn. Generally very ductile but not particularly strong. They require careful hardening to be used as a bearing surface.
The 10-series; 1095 (and 1084, 1070, 1060, 1050, etc.): 1095 is the most popular for knives. In order from 1095-1050, you generally go from more carbon to less, from better edge holding to less edge holding, and tough to tougher to toughest. 1060 and 1050 are used often for swords.
1040: Carbon steel used for axles. Can be made strong with proper heat treatment. Cost effective. Avg. yield 110,000 psi, avg. tensile 125,000 psi.
1050: Carbon steel used for axles. Extra C vs. 1040 makes it respond better to heat treatment. More expensive than 1040, but still cost effective. Avg. yield 140,000 psi, avg. tensile 160,000 psi.
1084: A good all around steel that holds an edge well when properly hardened and drawn.
1095: Sort of the “standard” carbon steel, not too expensive and performs well. Reasonably tough and holds an edge very well. Rusts easily. A simple steel, which contains only two alloying elements: ~0.95% C and 0.4% Mn. The various Kabars are usually 1095 with a black coating.
1541H: Carbon steel used for high performance auto parts. The 15-series carbon steels have more Mn than the 10-series. This makes it respond even better to heat treatment. The “H” indicates a dash of extra Si, which increases hardness. 1541H is more expensive to produce than other carbon steels, but is still cost effective based on its strength. Avg. yield 160,000 psi, avg. tensile 180,000 psi.
5150: Medium carbon, low alloy steel. Ideal for heat treated blades that have a very thick cross section such as tomahawks, axes, etc. Use 55-60 Rc. Extremely tough and impact resistant. (Cold Steel ‘hawks)
5160: A tough, springy steel popular with forgers, it is extremely popular now and a very high-end steel. Essentially a simple spring steel with Cr added for hardenability. Has good edge holding, but is known especially for its outstanding toughness (like L-6). Often used for swords (hardened in the low 50s Rc) and large knives because of its toughness, and is also used for hard use knives (hardened up near the 60s Rc).
52XX: Chromium steel group. Contains 1.45% Cr. A strong yet flexible alloy.
52100: A non-stainless ball-bearing steel used only by forgers. Similar to 5160 (though it has around 1% C vs. 5160 ~0.60%), but holds an edge better. Less tough than 5160, however. Exhibits many of the same advantages as BG-42. Used often for hunting knives and other knives where the user is willing to trade off a little of 5160’s toughness for better edge holding.
.38 Special
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That's a pretty tough act to follow!
I have personally had wonderful results from ATS-34. I keep meaning to try one of the powdered metal "miracle" knives, but am so satisfied with ATS-34 that I've never gotten around to trying any of them. My old Benchmade rode on my boot during my paramedic days, has sliced through some amazingly unpleasant wild boar carcasses, and has even been abused with box cutting duty. It certainly doesn't look anything like it did when it was new, but it still takes and holds a tough, sharp edge.
I have personally had wonderful results from ATS-34. I keep meaning to try one of the powdered metal "miracle" knives, but am so satisfied with ATS-34 that I've never gotten around to trying any of them. My old Benchmade rode on my boot during my paramedic days, has sliced through some amazingly unpleasant wild boar carcasses, and has even been abused with box cutting duty. It certainly doesn't look anything like it did when it was new, but it still takes and holds a tough, sharp edge.
Yo crittergitter,
what would you say this knife is made of?
http://www.osograndeknives.com/Kershaw/kershaw_-_military_knife,_kydex_sheath.htm
Here's another link that describes the steel, but it doesn't seem to match up to anything on your list.
http://www.kershawknives.com/productdetails.php?id=146&brand=kershaw
Also, which one of those on your list would be most like the steel in my old boker tree brand 3 blade stockman that is stamped "solingen" and rusts very rapidly and vigorously?
what would you say this knife is made of?
http://www.osograndeknives.com/Kershaw/kershaw_-_military_knife,_kydex_sheath.htm
Here's another link that describes the steel, but it doesn't seem to match up to anything on your list.
http://www.kershawknives.com/productdetails.php?id=146&brand=kershaw
Also, which one of those on your list would be most like the steel in my old boker tree brand 3 blade stockman that is stamped "solingen" and rusts very rapidly and vigorously?
COuld this be the type of metal in Norinco 1911 .45 ACP pistols ?
>>>>>
9Cr14MoV: Chinese made steel similar to AUS-8. Value steel.
9Cr13CoMoV: Chinese made high-carbon stainless with increased Co for greater edge retention. High level of corrosion resistance. Good value.
>>>>>
9Cr14MoV: Chinese made steel similar to AUS-8. Value steel.
9Cr13CoMoV: Chinese made high-carbon stainless with increased Co for greater edge retention. High level of corrosion resistance. Good value.
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