Dont Hurt me tooo much! Just a theory!

[RugerMcMarlin]

Refer to post #10. Ahh.....I was. Yup.... my statement means I disagree. And I went back and read it a couple times.
The cost of discarded weapons, should be a moot point in regards to weapons that don't NEED to be discarded. It does not cost more to decontaminate a pistol than build it.

I can't tell if thats your position too, or you disagree. Or your just relaying info.

 

[toivo]

PS porche is way better than BMW

I don't know about now, but when I was in Holland in the 1980's I saw highway patrol cops driving Porsches. Nice work if you can get it...

It's a fairly safe bet that an officer from Finland could out drive allmost any officer from Ohio.

Have you been to Finland? Once you get away from the cities, it gets pretty "Dukes of Hazard." Only about half of the "local roads" are paved. The local boys really tear it up on these roads, and the cops are right behind: all rally, all the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Olvasjärvi_local_road.JPG

Back to the OP: Out of eight autoloading pistols, my Glock 26 is the only one that has never had a malfunction of any kind. It's not the classiest or most fun to shoot of the bunch, but it is certainly the most reliable, not to mention durable.

 

[ET]

Nah, his analogy is spot on. (Calling a Hi Point a BMW is very questionable, however).

The "race car" of firearms would have to be a high powered rifle.

I own a Hi-Point. My brother gave it to me 12 years ago. It is not a BMW, more like a Yugo if you ask me.

 

[AZ Hawkeye]

I honestly can't understand why people bash Glocks. Then again, I don't understand why people bash a lot of things without reason!

With the exception of the Beretta M9, they are the most reliable, proven autoloading handguns in existence.

How can you bash that statement?

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I don't know about you but my Springfield XD hasn't jammed yet so I don't really understand the whole reliability thing. Glocks fit my like a 2x4 and there are much more handguns out there that look better for the same price and get the job done just as good. Why limit yourself to ugly guns?

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

I used to hate Glocks for no reason too. One of my favorites is the same one I spit on in 1986, and said I'd never own one. Piece of junk would fall apart in a month. So for 25 years I've been waiting on it to jam or break or not be as accurate, to fail in anyway. It's really discouraging.

 

[earlthegoat2]

when cops can get a Glock sold to their agency for about $150 a piece.

Wrong.

Doesnt mean it has not happened in the past.

There are rumors abound about how Glock let police agencies have them for only a few dollars above cost back in the early days just so they could get their name out there.

Yes I did say rumors. And yes, I know what rumor means. I also know where rumors come from.

 

[basicblur]

I don't really understand glock bashing.

I usually tell new shooters Glocks are both:
A. One of the best guns ever made
AND
B. One of the most overrated guns ever made

I know quite a few folks back when they were introduced that loved to make fun of 'em due to their plastic construction-some of those same folks now own 'em and make fun of anyone that assign anything less than deity status to old Gaston.
You know who you are...
I guess maybe this article describes a lot of those folks-Fanboyism and Brand Loyalty
Never owned one myself-while I recognize they're one of the best guns out there, I always seemed to find something that fit me or I liked more (XDs being the closest equivalent I own).

AFA BMWs...always thought they were nice cars, but I've known way too many one-time owners that complained they were great until things starting (prematurely) breaking, at which time the joy of ownership starting dying the death of 1000 (expensive) cuts.
I remember reading a long term BMW test in Car & Driver-as part of the test they always have the dealers perform OEM recommended maintenance in order to determine cost of ownership. They couldn't believe it when they had a brake job done (at much lower mileage than I'd want to pay for one) and found the cost to be over $2,000! BMW told 'em it was recommended that all rotors be replaced with the pads. Believing the dealer was puttin' one over on 'em, they checked with BMW and sho nuff were told the rotors were designed to wear out with the pads-they were designed that way for 'optimum braking performance'.
Wonder if those police BMWs are the same?

In a former life I was an industrial electrical troubleshooter, and I'll take good old American electrical equipment over 'bout any of the foreign stuff I had the bad fortune to work on. 'Bout all the foreign stuff was:
1. Overdesigned
2. Not operator/maintenance friendly
3. Inferior materials (plastics often crumbled due to age)
4. Not as versatile
5. Flimsy construction (industrial grade that wouldn't pass for consumer grade)
I've often wondered how much of the above also applied to some foreign makers' cars? From owner reports, it sounds like a lot of what I saw in industrial equipment probably does.

 

[balance 740]

I don't see any of this as "bashing". People seem to be speaking their opinions of Glock pistols, which is what people do on topics about Glock pistols. Is just speaking a negative opinion about something, "bashing"?

As far as the original topic, I think it could be answered with "because they work and they are cheap", which from what I've seen, is the general consensus of what government agencies are looking for in products. The price to performance ratio of Glock pistols is good now, and was probably great when they first came out.

I think comparing guns to cars is difficult, if not impossible, because the cars with the highest performance, will generally be the most unreliable, and the cars that are the most reliable, will generally be cars that were not designed to "perform". The area most people consider the most important in a defensive firearm is usually in reliablility, and after that, comes how well it performs in your hands. Usually you do not get both reliability and high-performance in one car, as opposed to modern pistol designs where on each pistol, reliability is practically a given, and performance is mostly dependent on the shooter.

Crown Vics are more reliable than BMWs with compareable size and power, but everything else goes to the Bimmer in my opinion, which is probably why people still buy them even though they cost more. They use higher quality materials, and my 14 year old BMW 740 has more features and options than almost all of the new cars coming out next year, and it will probably outperform most of those new cars as well. BMWs break down more often than American cars, but I'd imagine that if an American car was to come out that had the same list of options, with the same amount of performance, it would probably break down more often than BMWs since American car manufacturers generally use cheap materials/parts, and their cars generally age more quickly than Japanese/German cars.

I can take a "35mph" turn on an offramp with my BMW at 70mph and not hear the tires chirp, in a 4500lb car. Try that with ANY American car that has as much space and luxury, or weighs as much, and goodbye. I think they would perform better than what police are driving now, but I think the price to performance ratio of them will always put them out of the running for a government agency who is using them for what police are using them for. The Crown Vic is probably considered "good enough".

But you won't ever see me going to BMW forums looking for posts where people report problems, and say something along the lines of "you should have bought a Crown Vic". I'd probably get laughed at.

 

[Homerboy]

My department traded in their S&W 5946's for new Glock 17's. Cost was $75 EACH, and that included three mags per gun. Glocks work, but if cops were given a CHOICE, you'd see FAR less of them in cop holsters. I sold my 2 Glock duty weapons immediately after I retired. They offer nothing more to me than a traditional hammer fired DA/SA gun. I few ounces in weight savings (even less if you have an alloy frame gun like the S&W 5903) is not worth the drawbacks they offer to me. I also HATE polymer guns.

 

[REAPER4206969]

My department traded in their S&W 5946's for new Glock 17's. Cost was $75 EACH, and that included three mags per gun.

Which Glock then sold for around $375.

This is standard industry procedure.

 

[AZ Hawkeye]

I don't know about you but my Springfield XD hasn't jammed yet so I don't really understand the whole reliability thing. Glocks fit my like a 2x4 and there are much more handguns out there that look better for the same price and get the job done just as good. Why limit yourself to ugly guns?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

For example, I believe the XD is one of the "uglier" guns on the market, even uglier than my Glock, which I also don't find all that pretty, but I fell in love with her personality, not her looks!

In all honesty, I buy the "pretty" guns (HK P30) to take to the range and show off to fellow enthusiasts; I take my Glock when I expect to get in a gunfight.

By the way, what exactly is your signature supposed to mean? Many if not all professions favor simplicity as a key "ingredient" in a product. To want to the opposite of simple (complex) is absurd.

My motto? K.I.S.S. - Keep it simple, stupid!

And like I already said, if you can't shoot it well because of (insert issue here), then don't get one. Sitting on a forum bashing Glocks or any other firearm for no reason other than "it's ugly" or "it's too simple" (seriously, how can something be too simple, and when did that become a bad thing?) is very immature.

But, I support your 1st Amendment right to say whatever you want, mature or immature, so by all means...

 

[AZ Hawkeye]

As for the main topic of "Glocks being cheap..."

Well, I've heard multiple people say that they are cheap and in the next sentence say they own an XD (insert $450 to $600 polymer firearm here). How can you call one gun cheap, and in the same breath say you own an XD when I can actually get NIB XDs cheaper than NIB Glock Gen 4s?

I'm not bashing Springfield as I own a 1911 made by Springfield; I'm just trying to put all this in perspective. I also have no "fanboyish" love for Glock as I own firearms of all different brands including HK's, FN's and Springfield's.

Actually I don't really understand why we are still commenting on this thread... The premise is illogical at best...

 

[REAPER4206969]

Except for a few fullsize frames and export models, all Glock's are made in Deutsch-Wagram, Austria.

All XD's are made in Karlovac, Croatia.

 

[NMGonzo]

Because BMW's are "luxury" cars. They look pretty and have tons of extra options that just aren't necessary for police work. The cars that most Dept's drive now Haul ass and are durable. Glocks are reliable and durable -that's what is needed for police work.

I've seen state troopers driving new camaros and dodge chargers -two pretty bad ass vehicles right there.

Best police bike is a BMW though ...

 

[JohnBiltz]

Going back to the original post, I don't think that most Glocks in the US are sold to police. I think there are much more civilian Glocks. Its may to probably be true there are more police owned G22 and G23 models. But there are an awful lot of Glock 9mms out there and those are predominantly not police models.

 

[AZ Hawkeye]

Going back to the original post, I don't think that most Glocks in the US are sold to police. I think there are much more civilian Glocks. Its may to probably be true there are more police owned G22 and G23 models. But there are an awful lot of Glock 9mms out there and those are predominantly not police models.

That's probably true, although if you counted worldwide LEAs, you have Australia, Austria, Bangladesh, Belgium, Brazil, Croatia, Canada, Denmark, Czech Republic, Ecuador, Fiji, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Greenland, Hong Kong, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iraq, Israel, Jordan Kosovo, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Mexico, Montenegro, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Pakistan, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Singapore, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Thailand, United Kingdom, United States, Venezuela and Yemen all using 9mm Glocks in some capacity. (Just to name a few!)

This one speaks out to me: Germany's GSG-9 uses the Glock 17 which is surprising considering Heckler and Koch is a German company, and an excellent one at that.. (I love HK firearms, by the way, which makes me all the more surprised that the GSG-9 chose a Glock 17 over, say, the P30).

 

[9mmepiphany]

(I love HK firearms, by the way, which makes me all the more surprised that the GSG-9 chose a Glock 17 over, say, the P30).

That surprised me too...almost as much as the SAS changing from the FN P-35 to the Sig 226

 

[fatcat4620]

This is why police and civis like glocks.
http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90
a glock will shoot more in a row than you can handle in a range session with unlimited ammo with no lube and filled with dirt.

 

[oldfool]

Glocks are the AK-47s of the pistola world, and many people love/hate them (either or both) for very much the same reasons, pretty much just that simple, cheap and reliable

big American cities, unit price is a very big deal on volume buys, departments run by politicians and accountants
wouldn't surprise me a bit to hear of big cities issuing Hi-Points, any day now

 

[Stevie-Ray]

Around here the police cars have always been, or end up coming back to, Crown Vics ever since it's inception. I'm waiting to see what they do now that it's no longer offered. Ford has offered an interceptor version of the Taurus. We'll see. And our cops carry whatever they want as long as they qualify with it. I see a lot of 1911s. Still more Glocks than anything, though.

 

[MCMXI]

That's probably true, although if you counted worldwide LEAs, you have Australia, Austria, Bangladesh, Belgium, Brazil, Croatia, Canada, Denmark, Czech Republic, Ecuador, Fiji, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Greenland, Hong Kong, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iraq, Israel, Jordan Kosovo, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Mexico, Montenegro, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Pakistan, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Singapore, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Thailand, United Kingdom, United States, Venezuela and Yemen all using 9mm Glocks in some capacity. (Just to name a few!)

And yet CZ states this on their website ...

"CZ 75 B is used by more Governments, Militaries, Police and Security agencies than any other pistol in the world."

http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-75-compact/

Is this true and is it simply model specific?

 

[AZ Hawkeye]

And yet CZ states this on their website ...

"CZ 75 B is used by more Governments, Militaries, Police and Security agencies than any other pistol in the world."

http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-75-compact/

Is this true and is it simply model specific?

I never stated Glock was #1, I just named countries that used 9mm Glocks in some capacity.

You may be right, as I have no idea.

P.S. From now on, I'm going to be extremely clear on everything I say, as people have been putting words in my mouth a lot more often than usual...

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

For example, I believe the XD is one of the "uglier" guns on the market, even uglier than my Glock, which I also don't find all that pretty, but I fell in love with her personality, not her looks!

I didn't say it was a BBQ gun, If I could I would own a P220 stainless but I'm limited to private sales being only 18.

I don't hate Glocks and in fact the first gun I recommend to someone thinking about getting a handgun, is a Glock 19. I just personally don't like them and alot of its fanbase believe its the best thing ever and everything else is unreliable. I also didn't call the Glock cheap, only that It can be had for cheap. Glocks are one of the best guns but it isn't the best one for everyone.

a glock will shoot more in a row than you can handle in a range session with unlimited ammo with no lube and filled with dirt.

How do you know that other guns like the 92 can handle those tests just as well? The guy has been abusing his Glock and tried a USP which failed but that doesn't mean the Glock is the most reliable. Remember that both the M9 and the P226 passed the military handgun requirements which I'm sure that the Glock could just aswell if it was actually tested.

 

[MCMXI]

I never stated Glock was #1

I never stated that you did.

Frankly, I don't care what Governments, Militaries, Police and Security agencies use. I just thought it was interesting that CZ made that statement on their website. I have no dog in this race since I don't own a Glock or CZ pistol (Dan Wesson doesn't count) and have no immediate plans to change that.