What model Smith do I have?

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grimlock

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I've got a Smith & Wesson revolver that my great grandfather apparently bought in Oklahoma when it was still a territory, sometime soon after 1900.

The left side of the barrel lists the caliber as .38 S&W Special and U.S. Service Cartridges.
The top of the barrel is marked Smith & Wesson, Springfield, Mass. U.S.A. and a list of patents.
The serial number is in the 75000s, and is marked on the bottom of the barrel, the cylinder, and the bottom of the grip, as well as marked on the insides of the grips with grease pen.
Both the inside of the cylinder arm and the frame section that faces it are marked with 2350.
The right side of the frame behind the cylinder has the S&W logo.

So, what model is this? It's not marked anywhere on the pistol.
 
grimlock...

"So, what model is this? It's not marked anywhere on the pistol."

S&W did not start putting model designations on their pistols until somewhere in the mid 1900's I believe. One of the other, more knowledgeable S&W collectors can probably pinpoint exactly when.

Looking at the serial number it appears that you have a .38 Special Hand Ejector M&P made about 1906. It is probably a Fourth model, but I don't have my Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson right handy so I can't verify that right now. With the book someone can give you more information

This revolver is the ancestor of the Model 10, S&W's most produced line.

This revolver is worthy of a history request to Roy Jinks.

Congratulations, you have a great family heirloom there.
 
grimlock...

Well, I looked in the book and found out I was off a little bit. And you may have to get a history letter to truly identify exactly what you have.

According to Supica and Nahas, you have a .38 Military And Police Model 1905, 1st or 2nd Change. Apparently the two were manufactured overlapping in serial number range 73251 to 146899. Since you are so close to the beginning of this range, I would bet that it's a 1st Change. The only difference the book mentions is that the 2nd Change has two dowel pins in the star extractor.

I am sure that most of us are dying to see pics of this beauty. I think my assessment about this being a fine heirloom still stands.
 
Well I'm sorry, but my wife left the camera at her brother-in-law's house tonight. I'll take the pictures tomorrow.

I don't see any pins in the extractor. Where would they be?
 
I don't see any pins in the extractor. Where would they be?
Click to expand...
When you push on the extractor rod you will see two small holes in the star. There will be two dowel pins in the cylinder that aligns the star in the correct position when seated.
 
Hmmmm? US Service Cartridge would have been 38 Long Colt. I can understand S&W NOT saying that! I guess you have a rara avis. I put it as a Model 1899 revolver. Look all over. Is there a USN or anchor markings? Are there any initials of an inspector? Round butt or square? Lanyard ring in the butt? Is the ejector rod simply hanging out there? There should not be a secondary barrel latch/lock on early models. The rear sight should be a small dimple with a fine line leading into a trough on the topstrap. These were 1899 Navy and Army purchases. Around 2,000 were made. I am still not certain exactly what you have. I do suggest the Jinks letter from S&W. You could have something!:what:
 
Let's see if I can supply some more details to tide you guys over until tonight.

  • Front sight is a fixed blade.
  • Rear sight has a small groove in the topstrap and a hemispherical dimple at the very back
  • No lanyard loop in the butt
  • Blued finish
  • Ejector rod is uncovered where it rests under the barrel, and is held in place by a pin detent into the knurled knob at the end of the rod
  • No anchor or proof marks that I was able to find. Just the S&W trademark logo, the serial number in several places, the top-of-barrel stamping with company info and trademarks, and the caliber on the side of the barrel.
  • Caliber stamp reads:
    .38 S&W SPECIAL &
    U.S. SERVICE CTG'S
  • I'm guessing it's a round butt, although I'm not sure what the difference is.

I can't wait to take some pictures for you guys. I've also got the gunbelt my great-grandfather carried it in. Nice leather, cartridge loops across the back, let tiedown... Unfortunately, I wouldn't want to carry in it since it does not cover the trigger guard. I also have some old cartridges. Seems like nickel-plated case, solid lead round-nose bullets, with a headstamp that reads W.R.A. 38 SPL
 
grimlock...

"I'm guessing it's a round butt, although I'm not sure what the difference is."

A round butt S&W is rounded off at the back of the grip whereas the square butt comes to a distinct point/angle.

Long-range identification of an older revolver can be a challenging (and fun!) exercise. One of the interesting points to remember is that gun makers often had piles of parts and may not have used these parts exactly in order or in a specific run or serial number range.

Therefore, a barrel marked as Josey has discussed could very well have been left over from the 1899 model run and used a few years later.

Sounds like the accessories are in pretty good shape.

BTW, what did your great grandfather do? Was he a private citizen and this his personal firearm or did he use it in some sort of official capacity?
 
When he bought it, he was fresh out of law school (at 18, he was extremely intelligent). Spent a few months in Oklahoma, moved back to Florida, ended up a very high-ranked attorney there. Actually argued a case to SCotUS at one point.
 
Don't forget that...

...the .38 Long Colt, which was the U.S. service cartridge at the time, could be fired in the then-new-fangled .38 S&W Special Hand Ejectors.
 
It seems to me that 99% of these "what S&W do I have" mysteries turn out to be a Model 1905 4th change. I bet it looks something (but not exactly) like this one.

 
From your added info, you don't have a 1899. A Military & Police model is still in the running though. What length IS the barrel? A late Hand Ejector is possible. What is throwing me off is that 38 S&W Special and US service cartridge marking. The 38 Long Colt wasn't a long life service round. I am waiting for those pics. I would LOL if you had a USMC model.:what:
 
It does look very similar to that, but the grips stop further down and I think the barrel is a bit longer. Also, no medallion on the grips, just plain checkered (I think) walnut.

The retrieval of my camera did not go as planned. I promise to get the pics tonight or commit harakiri.
 
Yep, that's almost exactly it, sans whatever mark that is on the frame under the cylinder release, left of the top of the grip.
 
Ok ladies and gentlemen, here are the pics.

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