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What reloading supplies will I need.

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by scythefwd, Sep 13, 2008.

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  1. scythefwd

    scythefwd Member

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    I don't have anything, but I wan't to start reloading for my 30-06 and my .30-30. I know I will need powder (two different types at least, one for the garand, one for the savage). I will need a scale, a good book, dies (do the 06 and the -30 use the same die?). I am pretty much unsure as to what else. Who wants to help out a rookie in this field and offer up some info.

    What will I need, full list to load for both of these rounds.
    What brands to you recommend for a beginner.
    What books do you recommend.

    Any other advice, and if you are in VA, are you willing to teach a rookie?
     
  2. Bear2000

    Bear2000 Member

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    Well, you're going to need a press. I would suggest a Lee Classic Cast one-stage press ($70) to get started and a Deluxe Die Kit for the two calibers you're reloading. Kempfgunshop.com is a great place to buy Lee equipment. Sue will make sure you get what you need and spend time on the phone getting you set up if necessary. Wideners is also a good one-stop-place. Of course, you can buy a better press & dies than Lee, but it's a good place to start and will produce ammunition as good as any other. If you really get into reloading, you can always sell it and get something better.

    The Lee Hand Primer is easy and cheap, as is the Lee Perfect Powder Measure, which throws within .1-.2 grains for me. Still, you might want to get a powder trickler - Redding makes a good one.

    I would get a digital scale. I use an RCBS RangeMaster and am pretty happy with it.

    You'll also need a reloading tray and calipers (digital calipers on Ebay can be had for $15-$16 - they are the exact same as Lyman or Frankford Arsenal's, which cost 20-30 more at Midway).

    As for components, put in a big order with PowderValley for primers, good brass (buy 100 Lapua and you may never need to buy brass again), powder, and bullets. Their prices and selection are so good that the HAZMAT really won't hurt that much.

    Altogether, you'll need to spend a good penny to get started, even with a basic setup.

    Lee Press - $70
    Dies (2) - $60
    Hand Primer and Powder Measure - $40
    Scale - $90
    Micrometer/Calipers - $18
    Tray - $10
    4 lbs of Powder (get different kinds) - $80,
    1000 LR Primers - $25
    500 bullets - $125 (get different sizes/types)
    Brass - $100 (if you go with Lapua - you can also reuse what you have)
    Tumbler Kit - $80
    Shipping on all this - $50 (w/HAZMAT)

    Total - $700-750 (liberal estimate - it could be lower). Your first 500 rounds will cost you $1.50/piece. That will drop to $1.25 by 1000 rounds. At 2000 you'll be at around $1.00, and it will continue to go down, even as you restock on primers and powder.

    As for books, well, they can be useful, but it was the people here and some guys at the range who taught me how to reload. There is gobs and gobs of good reloading data on the web. But the best thing to do is find someone who's been reloading for a while, ask them to spend a couple of hours giving you a thorough tutorial, and then take them out for drinks or dinner.

    Good luck!
     
  3. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Not necessarly.

    There are several good powders that will do a nice job in both the 30-06 Garand and the 30-30.

    I would suggest you look at IMR-4064, BL-C2, or WW748 loads for both and see what you think.

    rcmodel
     
  4. scrat

    scrat Member

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    there is a thread already on start up cost with links to kits which will get you started for a lot less than this. as far as the hazmat. not needed at all if you have local gun shops that sell primer and powders.
     
  5. scythefwd

    scythefwd Member

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    Thanks for the input. My grandfather used to reload (most of the ammo for my m1 are handloads) and I hope to get my hands on his equipment. If I am not able to get his gear, it appears I have a pretty large bill ahead for me. I mainly want to reload those two rounds for these reasons... .30-30 spitzers that will get as good if not better ballistics than leverloution ammo (its a bolt action), and reloading for my garand as it won't ever get fed commercial ammo (but I might use lead slugs for hunting off of a mild load).

    I thought the .30-30 and the 30-06 used the same diameter projectiles. Will that end up lowering the cost of setup?
     
  6. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Both use .308" diameter bullets.

    But it really won't change the cost.

    Both 30-30 FP bullets, and .308" spitzers cost about the same.
    200 bullets of one kind will cost about the same as 100 of one, and 100 of the other.

    rcmodel
     
  7. scrat

    scrat Member

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    they both use the same diameter but different grain weight and compostion. though it is possible to use spitzer bullets in a 30-30 it is not recomended. A lot of us that have messed around with different bullets for the 30-30 have always gone back to the same two the 150 and 170 grain bullet. You really cant get much better than that with these two bullets. using spitzer bullets you can only load from the top not the magazine. 1 problem is that its dangerous in a tube magazine very dangerous as the end of one bullet will be touching the primer of the other one. then go load another in the magazine and the spring force can explode the first round in the magazine. Second the spitzer point can give you problems when ratcheting the round from the magazine. its just not worth it.
    A good powder for the two is H4895
     
  8. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    He's got a Savage bolt-action 30-30.

    rcmodel
     
  9. scrat

    scrat Member

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    Woops hahahaha i missed that. Good one.

    Spitzer it is
     
  10. brooks

    brooks Member

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    Richard Lee's book, MODERN RELOADING, is a good starter book to read and probably would be included in a starter kit.
    This outfit sells Lee's product.

    http://www.factorysales.com/

    A RCBS Rock Chucker starter kit will cost more.
     
  11. Bear2000

    Bear2000 Member

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    PowderValleyInc vs Local Gunshop

    I would respectfully disagree with Scrat on using local gun shops. In general, local gun shops and even larger retailers like Gander Mountain or Bass Pro have much higher prices and a poor selection.

    If you buy all of your reloading components from a place like PowderValley (bullets, brass, powder, primers), you will not only get everything you want in one place, you'll probably do better than breaking even with HAZMAT figured in, especially on a larger order. You also won't be paying tax or gas driving to the store, which alone on $200 worth of components would be $15-20. Not to mention your time and again not being able to get exactly what you want.

    So, if you do the math (which takes two minutes) and you're buying more than 4 lbs of powder, a few hundred bullets, and 1000+ primers, you will save money, time, and hassle by order from PowderValleyInc.com or some other big retailer (Grafs, etc.) AND if you can find just one other person to split it with (or two or three), you're going to save even more. For me it's not even a question anymore. I'll never buy components at a gun store again.
     
  12. scythefwd

    scythefwd Member

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    rcmodel,
    No where in this thread did I mention that the .30-30 was a savage (it is a stevens/springfield, but that is besides the point). I was under the impression that there were actually 2 manufacturers of .30-30's in bolt guns, were you just playing the odds?

    Stevens/Savage/Springfield Arms 340/840 (and various store brands like Coast to Coast which is what I have)
    Remington 778.

    As for the bullet being a .308, would I not need to purchase separate dies (total newbie, I'm not clear on the role of the die), reamers (If it does the same job a reamer does in a machine shop, I know it's purpose)? What I was asking, in a less than clear way I guess, is aren't some components reusable when the bullet diameter is the same vs. reloading for different rounds (I would give examples from my collection, but come to think of it.. they are all .308... garand, .30-30, sks, and I am pretty sure I can't reload .22 so it doesn't count).
     
  13. scrat

    scrat Member

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    powder valley is good. you are right. buttttttt if you can if there are more people in your area do a group buy we do that down here. it saves on the hazmat fee. and everyone gets a good deal
     
  14. scythefwd

    scythefwd Member

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    Bear2000,
    The local gun shop here actually is very willing to order stuff, and they usually are at or below msrp for items. I think your observation is valid, but at the same time applies only to the area the observation was made. I will keep that in mind though when I check into the gear if I can't get my grandpa's.

    Also why a digital micrometer? I have a very good one that does thousandths that my grandpa used when he made watches. Is it just because the digitals are a little more error proof (counting me out of the equasion) and faster?
     
  15. Bear2000

    Bear2000 Member

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    The digital is just easier - and super cheap, now.

    I wish I had a local gun shop that had good prices and was willing to order what I wanted. But I just can't find anywhere that comes close to the prices I've found online for reloading components, with PowderValley usually blowing everyone out the door. The convenience and price has me sold.
     
  16. scrat

    scrat Member

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    use a regular mic. a lot of people will by the digi. then find that its a pain when the battery wears out. i have one somewhere. but my regular calipers are so much better. sometimes you will go a month without reloading we all do. then that mic got 4 months of useage. sat around for one month and is dead.

    Pros and cons.

    Pro dial i spend money once and thats it for the life


    Cons its not as fast sometimes i feel dumb when i have to think about the measurement. Getting old


    Pro digital. gives reading quick. No gues work

    Con your going to have to keep spending money for as long as you own it or until you buy the dial mic
     
  17. Bear2000

    Bear2000 Member

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    Scrat's right - the cheapo digital will eat batteries. I went through the first one in 6 months, although the second one seems to be doing a bit better. They come with a spare because of this, but you will be spending $2 a year on a new battery forever.
     
  18. scrat

    scrat Member

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    Remember those old wrist watches they used to make. The ones you either had to wind up a few clicks a day and it would go ok. or the one that you shake it a few times. Now if they made a digi like this it would be so cool
     
  19. dmazur

    dmazur Member

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    I'm not a mind reader, but I'd guess your .30-30 is a savage from your original post. :)

    Anyway, the die resizes the brass as the press forces it into the die. The die is adjustable (a little) so you can get the correct headspace. (Use the THR Library to look this stuff up.) However, you still need a die for each caliber you are trying to reload. The internal dimensions have to match the cartridge, that's all.

    As far as reamers go, this isn't really a reloading tool in my experience. I've heard of finish reamers used by a gunsmith to machine the correct headspace in a new barrel he has just mounted to an action. The barrels are usually sold by the barrel mfgr as "short-chambered" so the gunsmith can do this after he's threaded it and mounted it.

    You may be referring to primer pocket reamers, which are used in reloading.

    Your SKS uses .311 diameter bullets, I believe. 7.62mm is a general term used to describe cartridges. 7.62 NATO and 7.62x39 don't both use .308 bullets, believe it or not.

    However, the .30-30 and .30-06 do both use .308 diameter bullets.

    I reload for my Garand with Hornady 150gr FMJ to create a "close to military" round, and I can switch to 150gr Hornady SST's and use it for hunting. I have an adjustable gas nut so I can use "non Garand loads" without damaging the operating rod.

    I see that Hornady is offering special match ammo tailored for the Garand. Golly is it expensive! I'm glad I reload.

    I use a Dillon 550B progressive press for reloading rifle rounds, even though conventional wisdom says you need a single stage press. The advantage of the 550B is that it has manual indexing, and this allows you to do the depriming/resizing, remove the brass for cleaning off the lube, then resume the operations with a box of cleaned, primed brass. You just index past the first stage before pulling the lever...

    In addition to the press (whatever you choose), I believe you will need the following tools -

    Dies and shell holders for your calibers
    powder measure
    powder scale (I'd go digital here..balance type are really, really time consuming)
    6" vernier calipers, dial type (no need for digital, dial type easy to read)
    some type of case lube, possibly a lube pad
    case trimmer and appropriate pilots for your calibers (cases tend to get longer when resized and this is bad)
    case headspace and brass overall length gauge (Wilson makes one type)
    repriming tool if your press doesn't do it
    reloading manual (Speer has a good one, as does Hornady and many others)

    And, of course, the following components -

    brass in your calibers (.30-06 and .30-30)
    primers (I believe both calibers use Large Rifle primers...please verify)
    powder (Hodgdon lists loads for H4895 and Varget for both calibers, so you can use one powder*)
    bullets

    * I believe H4895 is considered traditional for Garand reloading, and Varget may be too slow without an adjustable gas nut. Please verify.

    Good luck!
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2008
  20. scythefwd

    scythefwd Member

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    dmazur,
    I guess it's pretty bad when you have to go back and re-read your own posts as you have forgotten what details you gave:)
    <sarcasm>
    Maybe I'm getting to old to reload, that whole attention to detail is slipping. Oh well, guess 28 is just way to late </sarcasm>
     
  21. dmazur

    dmazur Member

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    Don't worry about it. I believe we've all forgotten a few things. In fact, I've read the problem gets worse as we age. I can't remember where I read that... :)

    Seriously, reloading is a lot of fun, although it is questionable if it really saves money. A lot of shooters believe it just lets them shoot more for the same cost.

    You know you are too involved in reloading when you need some empty brass for a new load workup, realize you don't have any, and then go to the range to shoot some older loads to "make empty brass", then hurry home to reload.

    I haven't done that. Yet.
     
  22. bullseye308

    bullseye308 Member

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    You say you will be reloading 30-30 for a bolt gun and 30-06 for a garand, no prob. The garand has a specific pressure curve you need to meet and only certain powders will meet this depending the bullet weight you choose to use. There is plenty of info on this(I don't have it) that you will find, it can be done with readily available powders that should interchange with the 30-30. You might get by with one powder for each rifle, but most likely not as each rifle is bound to have it's preferences.
    Loading spitzers on a bolt gun is common, so load whatever type of bullet you want in 30-30, just keep in mind that if you get a lever gun loading pointy bullets is a no-no. I used to load 30-30 for a TC Contender and loaded lots of ballistic tips in it. I also had a lever gun that I fired them out of single shot only. If you decide not to fire it you have to pop the extractor off the rim to get the case out due to the length of the round.
    If you want to start cheap and slow, Lee has a reloader press with the Lee load manual for around 30.00 and then get a set of Lee dies for each, cutter & lock stud, case length gauge, chamfer tool, powder scale and the Lee auto prime, case lube(I like Imperial sizing wax), and calipers. Should be good to go slowly with minimal investment, then after a while you will know where you want to go from there. I have a couple of the reloader presses and do everything on them, my loadmonster only does pistol rounds anymore. I load 223, 308, 7.62x39 on the reloaders because it keeps me busy and I enjoy it longer that way.
     
  23. scythefwd

    scythefwd Member

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    Bullseye,
    The extractor is a sold piece of steel on this .30-30. Popping it off the shell isn't an option. What happens when you load this on is this.
    The open spot on the bolt where the extractor isn't (it covers 180 degrees of the bolt face, 90 on each side) pushes the round out of the mag. As the round levels off in the chamber, the lip of the cartridge slides behind the extractor. If I single shot load, the rim doesn't get behind the extractor, and I have to shake it out (or tap if it expands a bit because I shot). At least I can remove the bolt :)

    I don't think I can fire something in this one if it isn't mag fed.

    Never mind, I just tried and the extractors will pop around the lip with little effort. Still don't think I want to mess with over all length too much though. I like the ability to shoot again. I have seen too many times where a person didn't have a round in the mag after making a kill and had to let a second deer go because it took too long to load (they were gutting the first deer). Looks like I can increase the length by 1/8 inch and still use my mag. The lighter the round, the shorter it is... right? So moving to a 150 spitzer from my 170 round nose should afford me a little wiggle room (maybe)?
     
  24. dmazur

    dmazur Member

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    scythefwd -

    I checked Hornady's site, and they have a 170gr FP (flatpoint) that is obviously designed for the .30-30. BC is 0.189 (!) so I can see why you want to load spitzer bullets for your bolt-action.

    The 150gr SST appears quite a bit longer. I don't have dimensions (Hornady doesn't put them on their site), but it is possible that seating to the cannelure (groove) would be 0.125" longer than the 170gr FP. The BC for this bullet is 0.415, which is good.

    Also, they make a 150 gr SP that isn't as long as the 150 gr SST, BC is 0.338. That might be functional if the 150gr SST's just won't fit in your magazine.

    I believe that reducing case volume by seating bullets deeper than the reloading manual calls for can lead to trouble. Especially with pistol bullets, this can lead to extremely high pressures. I would read up on seating depth before experimenting in that direction. The bullets I found all have a seating depth equal to, or less than, the 170gr bullet designed for the .30-30.
     
  25. scythefwd

    scythefwd Member

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    dmazur,
    The 125gr spitzers I saw today are the same length as the 160gr round nose bullets. Little light, but it will still kill a deer easily.
     
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