What rifle for a 12-year-old hunting elk?

[<SLV>]

My friend's son has been invited to hunt elk with his grandpa this fall. He asked me last night what gun would be best. The boy has completed hunter's safety, but has never owned a gun (I told them he needs a .22 just to spend more time getting familiar with shooting).

Anyway, for a caliber I was thinking that .270 would minimum. I know that other threads online say that .243 is a good way to start a kid on deer hunting, but it seems too small for elk for me.

For a gun, I know that Savage makes a youth model in many calibers which boasts a 1/3 reduction in felt recoil because of their adjustable muzzle break. I believe this one also has a shortened pull.

However, I was thinking that a BAR might have less recoil than a bolt action. But I'm not sure you want a 12-year-old wielding a semi-automatic high-power rifle.

One other factor I was considerin was the weight, and for this reason it seems that a 20" barrel and synthetic stock would be good. I'm not sure about .270 ballistics - does the powder completely burn in 20"? And for that matter, will the shorter barrel have more recoil?

Additionally these folks don't have a lot of money. The boy has saved up $165 for a gun. For this reason I was thinking he might want to pick up something ugly from a paw shop, and if necessary chop off the stock and slip on a recoil pad.

Thanks for your input in this matter I want to help them out if I can.

PS - I've got an extra .30-06 I could give him, but is this too much for a 12-year-old?

 

[Clipper]

.260 Rem in a Ruger compact would be ideal...

 

[one-shot-one]

???

what size 12 yr old are we talking about?
i do not think you'll get much reduction of felt recoil between a .270 with 150 gr. bullets and a 30-06 with the same weight.
if going with a "new" rifle look at the 7mm-08 and .308 if still to much then the .260 or 6.5X55 swed will work. most important make sure the rifle fits him, and he is confident with it.

 

[MCgunner]

.260 Remington or maybe 7-08. I haven't shot the .260, but the 7-08 is light on the shoulder even compared to my .308. My .257 Roberts is very light on the shoulder, but I'd want perfect shot placement with the 117 grain interlock in that gun, sorta light for game as heavy as elk. It'd kill one, though, with proper shot placement out to a couple hundred yards. I killed my first deer with it at age 11.

The .260 with a 140 grain bullet has a very good sectional density and should be an ideal compromise for the kid. It is totally capable of killing elk with more error factor than a smaller bullet. At least you'd be SURE he'd get a hole in both sides even if he put it on the shoulder through heavy bone.

 

[Shoney]

At age 12 my 5'0" 90lb daughter was proficient with .22, 222, and 6mmRem; having many hours at the bench and in the field shooting prairie poodles. I purchased a used 700 Rem 270 w/24" barrel, replaces the syn stock with a used wooden stock which was cut down, had a Pachmeyr Decelerator pad installed and I also installed a mercury recoil reducer.

I started her with 130 grain loads with 4227 powder, which were very mild recoil. She worked up to full velocity loads with 140gr SPBT as her hunting load. Her first year she took a 5x7 Whitetail, a 3x3 Mule deer, and a cow elk. All were one shot kills.

 

[<SLV>]

.30-06

one-shot-one,

He is a small kid. In fact, he could probably use a "youth" model through high-school and into adulthood (his parents are also small).

The .30-06 I'm talking about is currently being completely overhauled. I was already planning on trimming the barrel from 25.5" to 22" and I was going to install a limbsaver custom grind recoil pad. I could cut the barrel to 20" (install a muzzle-break?) and shorten the stock before fitting the recoil pad. I think I could reduce the pull to just under 12". Would this make a good gun for him? If so, then I'll sell it to him for the $165 he has saved up (even though the smithing will cost me more).

Also, does anyone know how to measure a young person for the correct pull length? I can't get my stock any shorter than 11.75" (current pull is 13"), but it seems that this should be short enough.

 

[jford1]

A 44 mag lever gun if you can get close (woods) or get a youth stock for your '06 if it's open country. I have a BAR .270 Win. w/BOSS and a 4.5-14x scope that is light weight and gentle on the shoulder. I just use it for whitetail but I'd be great for elk. However, I wouldn't recommend it because it's expensive and probably to long for him to shoulder comfortably. Many elk have been taken with 44 handguns and I'd feel better giving a kid something he can have 100% confidence shooting rather that what an adult thinks is necessary to bring down an elk. I doubt the boy will learn long-range marksmanship in such a short time. It's all about shot placement no matter what you give him.

 

[jford1]

I also recommend not putting a break on it while he's learning marksmanship. The added noise is very detrimental to flinching—more even than recoil. A 22" barrel is a good length for a bolt gun if you're trying to save weight and make it more handy.

 

[<SLV>]

Does the bullet weight affect the recoil? I shoot 180 grains in .30-06 for the long distance ballistics, but would a 168 or even a 125 reduce the recoil for this boy? Do you know of any light loads in .30-06 - perhaps something that wouldn't create much muzzle blast with a 20" barrel?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

.260 Remington or maybe 7-08. I haven't shot the .260, but the 7-08 is light on the shoulder even compared to my .308.

Given the choice, I'd go with the 7mm-08. The .260 has a relatively slow twist and often will not shoot really heavy bullets well. The 6.5X55, 7X57 and 7mm-08 do their magic with long, heavy bullets.

I'd start handloading, too -- maybe with a Lee Press kit if money is tight -- and load some light loads initially for practice and work up to a heavy load for hunting. I'd advise a premium bullet (Nosler Partition Jacket, Barnes TSX, etc.) for elk.

 

[jford1]

Yes—a lighter bullet means less recoil but also less penetration. I would stick with a 150gr premium bullet if he's going to use the '06. Take him and the gun to a gunsmith and have the stock properly fitted. It's money well spent and the better it fits the less recoil will be a problem. I might have him shoot it first to see if the recoil is too much before you chop it up.

 

[jford1]

Most premium ammo uses good powder and will have less muzzle blast than the cheap stuff. A 20" barrel will have significantly more noise & blast than a 22" and lose velocity as well. Some companies are making reduced recoil loads that might be good to practice with and probably have enough power to drop an elk if the shot is good. I don't have much experience with those loads and they might use bullets to light for the necessary penetration.

 

[TexasRifleman]

My friend's son has been invited to hunt elk with his grandpa this fall.

Has he been invited to actually shoot or just tag along?

Frankly I think 12 is too young for hunting Elk as a first hunting experience but if that's his only opportunity then he should ertainly take it.

If the boy can't shoot a 30-06 he should simply wait until he can however since you have one he can use.

He's managed to save up $165 of his hard earned money for a rifle. That's fabulous. Wasting that on a rifle he will shoot once or twice would be a shame.

He should buy a .22 with that money and a LOT of ammo.

 

[Essex County]

I was shooting a .308 when I was twelve, but I believe 7-08 is the correct answer. Essex

 

[GCW5]

Two of my sons were about 75 pounds at 12 years old, and the .270 was just to much for them. They did fine with .243s. My youngest weighed about 150 when he was 12, and had no problems with a .270. We were only shooting whitetail, not elk. I think a 6.5 X 55 might be a good choice for recoil and enough umph for elk, but if he's fairly big, a .270 or 30-06 might be fine.

 

[<SLV>]

I think I found it!

OK,

So I just found the H&R Handi Rifle Youth Model (break action single-shot) in 7mm-08. This gun is on gunbroker.com for about $230. Seems to me like it would be an economical gun for him to start with.

Everyone agree with this?

 

[LeonCarr]

.308 with 165 or 180 Nosler Partitions for Elk. I think the Handi-Rifle comes in .308, and you can get a longer stock when he grows into it.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[obxned]

7X57 has been used to reliably kill every manner of critter in North America.

 

[mustanger98]

Well, everybody has an opinion and that's always evident when somebody starts a thread on kids and elk hunting. Here's my opinion, but keep in mind that it's based on the kid getting within 200yds of the elk and preferably much closer.

Levergun in .30-30 with 170gr softpoints. My experience is the felt recoil isn't all that noticable with anything I feed my old Winchester. If the kid can hit the elk in the upper lungs and spinal, he's going down pretty much like a deer will when hit the same way. While I usually use 150grainers for deer, I'm thinking 170's would be better for the bigger animal. If the bullet hits a mite lower, the elk is still going down, but it'll just take a few minutes longer to bleed out.

.30-06 will do the job, but it's a question of the relationship between the gun and the kid, just like with any other kid/rifle combination. FWIW, .303British will do it too, and with less recoil if the rifle fits right. While the weight might be somewhat detrimental for carrying, that same weight is your friend when it comes to soaking up felt recoil. That's my experience of carrying and shooting rifles. I'm also adding that getting the short range isn't as important with these, but how well can the kid shoot at longer ranges? I go back to the .30-30 and get as close as possible. The H&R HandiRifle is available in .30-30... and it's a heavy barrel... can be handloaded with spitzers and possibly also heavier bullets (reduce powder charge weights under heavier bullets while working up from sub-minimum numbers) while not having to worry about a tube magazine.

Somebody mentioned .243Winchester... while I really like this round and I've seen deer put down with it, I'm not sure I'd recommend it for elk just because of the light weight of the bullet.

 

[TCB in TN]

I am a fan of the New England Handi Rifles for kids. Mine have 2 in .243. Both started shooting them when they were 8 or 9. (Under supervision of course, they are 11 and 13 now). Both have shot my 30-06, their Grandfathers .270 and uncles 7MM and can handle all. Get a HR in 30-06 hand load and get them used to the recoil they will be fine.

 

[plexreticle]

I would hate to see the kid to spend his own $165 on something and not even get a chance to shoot for real or think it sucks. It is not unusual to go Elk hunting and not even see one.

If you just have to have the kid go hunting I would get him a H&R Handi-Rifle in .243 and a deer permit. If they see a deer he can shoot that and leave the Elk for the guys with the Elk guns.


Just IMO.

 

[CZ223]

SLV I think it is wonderful that you are taking such an interest

in helping out you friends son. I really wished that you had let me suggest the handi rifle before finding it for yourself. While I do not own one everthing that I have heard about them has been good including accuracy. I think the triggers leave a little to be desired but many rifles do. I also think that your choice of the 7-08 is a very good one. Many have already suggested the 6.55x55 Swede and one or two have suggested the 7.5x55 Swiss and, in my opinion either of these would be a great choice. I know that I have read that the 6.5x55 has been used to take all the big 10 including elephant. In my experience, shooting only, it is very pleasant cartridge to shoot. The 7.5x55 is the balistic equivalent of the 308 although not available at your local Walmart. Where I am headed with this is you might be able to find an old model 38 Swedish mauser, the carbine verion of the model 96, for around $200 if you look hard enough. Great shooters with good open sights. There seems to be a good supply of K-31s on the Market right now for under 200 and these are also supposed to be great shooters. As for weight, they will be a little on the heavy side for a small 12 year old but that will help with the recoil. The other budget priced guns that I would suggest are Stevens 200( its the old model Savage) for right around $200. The other is the Mossberg ATR. I have no experience with the Mossberg but I have been impressed just handling it. The advantage of the Steven over the Mossberg would be that you can easily find old wooden stocks for the Savage that will fit that can be cut for cheap. The only drawback to either of these two guns would be caliber selection. If it were me I would go with the 308. It will get the job done and is affordable.

 

[Nhsport]

Since you are being generous to the kid (Thank you!) I like the idea of your 30-06.
One of the major ammo mfgs (hornaday?) makes reduced recoil loads for common calibers.The reduced 30/06 load has the approximate power of the standard .308.
Get him a good recoil pad or slide on and don't let him shoot it from the bench much.Standing or sitting is best as it allows his body to recoil with the gun,sitting at a bench a shooter will lean into the gun and take a beating.
Instruct him to pull the gun firmly back into his shoulder. If you shorten the barrel much the lighter gun will slam him harder so be cautious.
Fix him up with the 06 for hunting but if possible borrow or lend him a real lightweight like a 223 or a 243 to get him started in shooting a centerfire.
When playing around with stock length remember that he will be wearing heavy clothes while hunting.Possibly get him a strap on recoil pad or a skeet shooting vest (again with extra recoil protection) to wear this when he is shooting this summer.
When sawing off the stock use a fine blade like a hacksaw or a bandsaw and save the piece to be glued back on later.
Fix the kid up with double hearing protection,foam plugs with muffs over,a new shooter can easily be distracted by the noise.
Thanks again for helping the kid out,he is kind of young but shouldn't miss out on the chance to hunt with his grandpa.

 

[jhunter]

For what its worth, I got a new 7mm for my 13th B-Day. I had been shooting in 4H for a while, and had a 30-30 and 6mm prior to that. I never went elk hunting, but that is what it was given to me for. Really fun to shoot. I sold it when I quit hunting a few years ago. It had plenty of power for elk, and was not bad to shoot at that age. I was a small kid too, tall but thin. The 30-06 would be a great choice as well, and save you some money.. I had one later on, and it was great.

Oh yea, I never used one, but you might look into a muzzle break. A buddy of mine hunts large game all over the nation and has one on his 300. He said it works great, but it does make it louder when behind it. Just going off what he said, he has been on the cover of hunting magazines and knows his stuff, so I guess it works. He said recoil is not bad at all now.

 

[EdLaver]

something in .243 winchester would be ideal, nothing higher. I learned this when I tried to get my 13 year old nephew to shoot a .308. He was very uncomfortable after the 1st shot so I went with a .243 the next time and it was much better for him. Not to mention he was much more accurate and had more confidence.

To those that say .30-06 are you kidding? Hes only 12, let him work up to bigger things and remember accuracy is the major factor, too much recoil will cause a sure miss. Don't put big pressure on him or he will have a bad experience that you will regret. Let him become comfortable with a .243 and then work him up to bigger things.