What rifle will meet these specs/criteria

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streetstang67

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Say I was looking for a rifle that met as much as the following criteria as possible, what would you suggest?

1. High powered centerfire cartridge (.30-06, .308, anything close to these calibers)
2. Semi-automatic
3. 1 MOA capability (thats 5 shot groups, not just 1 or 2 shots)
4. Under 10 lbs (with optics)
5. Under $1000 complete (or as reasonable as possible)

Bonus: Capability to engage targets from 5 yards to 1000 yards (good luck with this one)



Anyway, I'm just curious what will be suggested, these criteria are pretty strict and it seems hard to get one rifle to meet all of them.
 
With a couple of exceptions to those criteria, it sounds like M-14 and M1 Garand.

3. 1 MOA capability (thats 5 shot groups, not just 1 or 2 shots)
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While I've heard of service grade M1's that do 2MOA or better, Ordnance Dept's mandate was that it do 4MOA or tighter.

4. Under 10 lbs (with optics)
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The M1 and M-14 both are 9.5-10lbs empty and most weren't issued with optics.

Other than that, that's what you're looking at. Until the EBR/sniper guys jump in.
 
Damn dude, you don't ask for too much. Most, hell all the semi auto rifles I can think of that meet that criteria are well over 10 lbs and are over $1000. You've pretty much narrowed the field to .308 ARs, and they won't meet your price/weight criteria.
 
Except for the price I have an HK-91 that will pretty much do it all. On second thought it might be a tad heavy. In 1983 I paid $425.00 for it new.
 
A 1/2 decent scope for 100 yard shots will be $3-400 for a FFII or something similar in 4-16, that leaves $6-700 for the rifle, and I don't know any of semis in that price range that shoot medium bore rounds. Even sporters are tough, my BAR's are 1.5 moa most days, my HK SLB 2000 in 30-06 will usuually stay near, but not quite at, 1 moa. you might find a SLB2000 used for $600 or so, but spare 10 round mags run nearly $70 each.

slb2000-2.jpg
 
I know its probably impossible to meet all of the criteria, just pick a rifle that meets as many as possible.
 
Just curious,
Where are you guys getting these scoped
MOA M14/M1A's for under 1000 bucks?
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I would also like an answer to this question.

In fact if you can get a new M1A with no scope please tell me where. They go about 1400 around here.
 
While I've heard of service grade M1's that do 2MOA or better, Ordnance Dept's mandate was that it do 4MOA or tighter
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Actually, the acceptance standard was 5.5 inches at 100 yards, and early contractors had problems meeting this. This was not wholly a problem with the rifles. Variability of ammunition greatly contributed to the problem.

By the time TRW took over the M14 contract, they had solved all the manufacturing issues with purpose built machinery. Unfortunately, the M14 conteracts were cancelled just as TRW was poised to start making money and turning out the best M14 built.

I know of no semi-auto, sub MOA rifle made that can be purchased for under $1000, with or without optics.

Base price for a suitable M1A is in the $1500 range before any accurizing is done. I probably have another $1000 in mine to get it to shoot MOA.

If anyone can demonstrate to me an HK-91 that will consistently shoot 5 round sub MOA groups, I'll give them a crisp new $100 bill.

The closest thing you are likely to find is an AR-10 HB - something like the super SASS or AR-10T.

The reality is that there aren't that many rifles of any kind that will consistently shoot 5 round sub MOA groups. If you notice most gun reviews, they are shooting 3 shot groups, and throw out fliers. The number under $1000 are darn few.

I hear a lot about sub-MOA rifles - particularly cheap ones, but I sure don't see many at the range. My experince is that those who do have sub MOA rifles have spent some money on them. And just about every one can tell you exactly what load they use to achieve that performance.
 
Where are you guys getting these scoped MOA M14/M1A's for under a 1000 bucks?
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I don't know about everybody else, but I bought my NM M1A several years ago from my brother for $650 and the reason that he sold it so cheap was because he bought it before the ban in 1993 and he needed to free up some cash.

What can I say? Sometimes networking with your family and friends is a really good thing. You never know when your buddy or your brother's going to get divorced and enable you to profit from his misery. :D

I've seen them at gun shows for $800 before, but unless it was a really cheap scope, rings and mount then even at $800 it would still break the $1000 limit that the OP set.

The M1A, the PTR-91 from JLD Enterprises and a full length FAL from DSA would work with most of the specifications laid out, but all of them would break the thousand dollar mark, especially with the scope, mount and rings included.

Maybe a Romanian PSL and the PSO scope and rail would be the ticket.
http://www.classicarms.us/

You can get the rifle for $769 and the scope and mount for $254, that gets in just over the wire and from what I've heard they're pretty accurate. Traditional American long range shooters usually hate them, but if you practiced quite a bit with it then such a combo might work out for you. As far as MOA accuracy, then you'd have to search out and buy the right ammo (or reload the ammo yourself) as corrosive FMJ rounds 440 rds for $50 isn't going to cut it in the accuracy department.

Here's the PSO scope.
http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/detail.aspx?ID=353

Other scopes that might work out.
http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=56

Here are some other links regarding the PSL.
http://www.dragunov.net/psl_action.html

http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/Romanian_PSL_SniperRifle.asp

http://tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru/bstpso.html
 
The real problem is his "1 MOA capability" requirement combined with the "semi-auto" one. With a little luck and effort, you could build a nice scoped bolt gun that shoots 1 MOA, and do it for around $1,000. You could also keep it under 10 pounds. It is very rare for a semiauto .30 caliber rifle to be truly 1 MOA, however. While they exist, they typically will require a lot of careful work and lots of money to get there, and will be well over $1,000 even before you add the optics.

Now, I could get you a scoped .30 caliber semiauto rifle weighing in at 10 pounds, and probably do it for awful close to $1,000 (assuming really cheap optics, which I don't recommend), but I would never promise 1 MOA -- more like 3 MOA, and 2 if you are very, very lucky.

The reality, though, is that a rifle that shoots 2 MOA or even 3 MOA is more than adequate for just about everyone's needs, the exception being long range target shooters. But if you're playing the high power target game, you're going to spend a lot more than $1k on your outfit.
 
none. you're gonna have to change your price and or weight criteria
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Kimber1911_06238, re-read post #8, or the first line of the first post..."as much of the following criteria as possible".
 
Since it doesn't have to meet all the criteria how about a Savage 10 or 110 FP?
I believe the only one of the standards was missed that being Semi-Auto.
 
Honestly, I can't think of anything off the top of my head that will meet all those criteria. I wouldn't promise consistent 1 MOA groupings for any semi-auto .308 rifle that won't cost you bigtime. If you want a semi-auto .308 gun for $1000 or under, you may be able to find a .308 AR out there, as well as some Century FALs and if you're lucky a .308 AK or H&K G3 clone. M1A/M14 will do it, but I've almost never seen them under a grand. The other problem is your weight criteria - most of the guns I've mentioned won't meet that, particularly with optics.

If you want a .308 AR, you may be able to find a DPMS (particularly a pre-owned one) for under a grand.
 
how about a remington model 750 in .308 or 30 06. semi, 7.5lb, $831 walnut stock, $732 synthetic stock msrp. not sure about moa cap but shouldnt be too bad.
 
May I suggest that you are being unrealistic in weighing all the criteria equally? Most shooters cannot hold 1MOA in any position other than prone, even if the rifle is capable of it. Even the few who do hold that particular talent, generally can't afford to feed their rifle the quality of ammunition necessary to achieve 1MOA.

Scrap that criteria and you take a big step towards reality in your desired goals and in practical use of the rifle.
 
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