What rifles should I be looking for to shoot 50 cal patched ball?

[brewer12345]

I've been told that after muzzleloader season is over in these parts one can pick up a rifle for relatively little money at the used shops. I'd like to shoot a patched round ball and a 50 cal would make the most sense for potentially hunting deer. Caplock would be nice, but I could live with an in line as well. Can anyone suggest brands and/or models of rifle I should keep an eye out for? I am a novice with black powder, so I am not all that interested in spending a ton of money or hoping to chase down an exotic or low production manufacturer. Minute-of deer at 100 yards would be great, although more accuracy potential is always nice.

 

[Armored farmer]

You first need to decide if you want a traditional sidelock muzzleloader or one of the new fangled in lines.
Check your state's hunting regs on the blackpowder season. Some states have special regs on muzzleloader season.
Patched round ball is most commonly used in traditional rifles with slow twist like 1 in 60.

 

[Crawdad1]

Pedersoli or Lyman. Good barrels. Good price.

 

[MEHavey]

In-lines are usually very fast twist (1-28 or so) which will do "really bad things" to patched-ball.

Look for a traditional sidelock (Lyman Great Plains, Thompson Center, Pedersoli, etc) which have been designed for PB at 1-60.

 

[Armored farmer]

This old Thompson/ Center Hawken. 54 has served me well since 1983. They are made in .50cal as well. They have a 1 in 48 twist which is meant to be a compromise between patched ball and minie ball.

 

[rodwha]

Lyman would certainly be something to look for. Inexpensive but good.

The Hawkens rifles came with a 1:48" twist and those were not meant for a conical. It wasn't a compromise twist. Just a different one and one that required less powder, in general, to be accurate.

 

[Armored farmer]

The Hawkens rifles came with a 1:48" twist and those were not meant for a conical. It wasn't a compromise twist. J

T/C maxi hunter bullets with the deep lube grooves were what I thought the idea behind the 1-48 twist.

 

[daboyleroy]

I use the
Pedersoli Blue Ridge Percussion Rifles

• Exceptionally accurate with a variety of bullets
• Adjustable double-set trigger
• Polished-brass accents

Blue Ridge black-powder muzzleloaders feature a drum and bolster system. The precision-rifled 39" blued octagonal barrels with 1-in-48" (1-in-65 in .54 cal) twist delivers exceptional precision with patched round balls, plus the .45-.50- caliber percussion rifles will handle conical bullets surprisingly well. Locks are color-case-hardened. Adjustable double-set trigger. Buttplate and trigger guard are polished brass. Percussion cap fired.
OAL: 55".
Weight: 7-1/4 lbs.
Barrel finish: Blued.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/shoo...-ridge-percussion-rifles/1608547.uts?slotId=4

Got mine on sale and used Cabela's reward points

Great shooter ...packs a punch

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

In addition to a slow 1-60 or more twist round ball guns usually have deeper grooves.
There has to be many old CVA, Thompson and others sitting around in safes and closets if you can find one.
I see them at gun shops used occasionally very cheap. Just take a good look at the bore on a used one, many were poorly cleaned.

 

[red rick]

Here are my two : TC Hawken 50 cal. & Renegade 54 cal. .

 

[rodwha]

I got a Lyman Deerstalker for Christmas for about $400 a few years ago. I chose it as my first muzzleloader as it was a handy size (24" barrel) and moderate weight (7.5 lbs) making it nice for stalking or sitting in a blind. It was inexpensive and came with an assurance of quality for the price. It's simple and wouldn't make me cry if/when it gets scratched from field use. I thought I'd really want the recoil pad figuring I'd shoot conicals and it certainly tames any recoil (.50 cal 320 grn REALs with ~80 grns weighed/70 grns volume of 3F). I thought I'd appreciate the fiber optic sights for lower light (dusk/dawn) hunting but I'm not so sure and may well swap them out for the ones that come on the more traditional Trade Rifle.

At the time I was comparing this rifle to the Traditions Deerhunter which just looks cheesy to me and doesn't have quite the number of people praising the quality, and the Pedersoli Country Hunter which is a bit lighter, has more traditional sights, and no recoil pad. I thought I might want the additional heft of the Lyman along with the recoil pad thinking with conicals it ought to be quite similar to a .45-70 Gov't. But I also was intrigued by the inexpensive drop-in barrels (I can get a .54 cal or use a Trade Rifle barrel of 28"), which I intend to do (several).

 

[Hanshi]

The Lyman trade rifle has an excellent reputation and a lower price than some others. T/C is sometimes a good deal and quality is excellent. CVA, Traditions and some others are good, accurate prb shooters. Pedersoli is very good but expensive.

 

[brewer12345]

You first need to decide if you want a traditional sidelock muzzleloader or one of the new fangled in lines.
Check your state's hunting regs on the blackpowder season. Some states have special regs on muzzleloader season.
Patched round ball is most commonly used in traditional rifles with slow twist like 1 in 60.

That was a helpful suggestion. Colorado has somewhat bizarre muzzleloader regs. No sabots, scopes, anything that takes a battery. Bullets cannot be longer than twice the barrel diameter, etc. Happily, it looks like round ball and any lock you like is OK (including in-line). Since I would really only be interested in round ball from something other than an in-line, that works for me. If I want to hunt with a modern rifle, I will do it in rifle season. Funny, though: my "modern" deer rifle is a 1958 lever action...

 

[david58]

For PRB, you need deeper rifling and a 1-66" or longer twist. You can make the 1-48 work, but with the shallow rifling your loads will be limited and therefore accuracy and energy from 100 yards may not be the best. Today, the best rifle for the money for PRB is the Lyman Great Plains rifle - good deep rifling in the one designed for PRB (you can also get a bullet barrel). Aside from being a good rifle for the money, it is a respectable copy of the old St Louis Hawken rifle. I have a room with the walls decorated by custom muzzleloaders, and honestly do covet a Lyman just for casual walks in the woods and fun at the range.

 

[rodwha]

My blued .50 cal Lyman Deerstalker is 1:48" twist but has deeper grooves (.502 x .520") for PRB as do their Trade Rifle barrels. The stainless model Deerstalke, though 1:48" twist also, has shallower grooves for sabots and conicals.

I use a felt wad and shoot Lee REALs through my Deerstalker.

 

[Saddlebag Preacher]

I have a Tradition's 50 cal. sidelock hawken I bought in 1996 1-48" twist. I bought it mail order specifically for my first BP season deer hunt in Kentucky. There really wasn't any of the new fangled inlines around here then. I can shoot sabots, maxi-bullets or roundballs. I have never bought one of the new ones and still use it every year. I shoot round balls through it because, contrary to what I've been told, it shoots more accurate with them that the sabots or maxi-bullets. I still see them on sale.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

You will find several brands of currently produced, and discontinued cap-lock rifles out there in 1:48 twist for shooting .490 patched round ball (i.e. .50 caliber)
1:48 twist wasn't a compromise twist to shoot both round ball an conical. It was marketed as such by Thompson Center because it will shoot both, and at velocities and accuracy capable of doing a very good job at harvesting white tail deer. I prefer the Thompson Center Maxi Hunter to the Maxi-ball for accuracy, yet I prefer the patched round ball over any conical for deer. FYI original Hawken rifles had such a twist rate, AND rifles from the American Revolutionary War also had that twist rate, long before they invented the conical bullet. That twist rate was rather popular.

Lyman, Traditions, and Pedersoli all make good quality caplock rifles at comparable prices.
The Pedersoli from Cabela's is called The Blue Ridge Hunter, and is available in caplock. http://www.cabelas.com/product/shoo...-ridge-percussion-rifles/1608547.uts?slotId=4
Traditions makes a plains style rifle http://www.cabelas.com/product/shoo...ions-hawken-cal-bp-rifle/2111306.uts?slotId=3
Lyman also makes several different versions of plains style rifles https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...rifle-percussion-1-in-48-twist-28-barrel-blue

Thompson Center Hawkens are also often found in good condition in pawn shops. However, when buying any of the traditional rifles used, you MUST have some sort of bore light to check the bore, for it's not uncommon to find a rifle that was well cared for on the outside, but the bore has problems, as well as the opposite, a rifle that is banged up a bit on the outside but has a great bore and is an excellent shooter.

LD

 

[4v50 Gary]

For factory made rifle, I like the Lyman Great Plains. However, TC has a much friendlier and flatter user butt.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

In general the advantage of slower twist rates and deeper grooves is that a round ball can be pushed faster. Deeper grooves grip the patch better without damaging it which would spoil accuracy. When black powder is used the deep grooves allow more shots before the barrel must be swabbed due to fouling.
1 in 48 barrels can be very accurate with patch & ball but in general cannot achieve the velocity of a slower twist barrel without sacrificing accuracy.

 

[david58]

For factory made rifle, I like the Lyman Great Plains. However, TC has a much friendlier and flatter user butt.

All has to do with how you mount the rifle. The curved butt should go on your arm, in the crease at the top of the bicep and whatever the docs call your shoulder muscle. Personally, I like the curved plate, suppose I just learned to shoot it. Like it so much I am on the hunt for a Savage 99 and an old Marlin with the curved butt plate.

 

[red rick]

If you look at the picture in my post you can see two different shapes at the end of the stocks , both are TC's . I also like the curved plate better .

 

[Loyalist Dave]

1 in 48 barrels can be very accurate with patch & ball but in general cannot achieve the velocity of a slower twist barrel without sacrificing accuracy

Ah but the question is, how much velocity do you need? The slower twist rates are for very high powder loads, AND for less cleaning between shots. In some stock shapes the less torque from the slower rates gives less of a "disagreeable recoil". Note the British .62 Baker rifle, a combat rifle not a hunting rifle was a 1:120 twist and the men were trained to shoot out to 300 yards with a 3/4 ounce ball. So we're talking 110 grains of 2F powder, and perhaps 140 grains ) I can use 70 grains of 3Fg in a 1:48 Thompson Barrel or a 1:66 Colerain barrel, and get great accuracy, and a MV of around 1400-1500 fps.

LD

 

[entropy]

I have a Tradition's 50 cal. sidelock hawken I bought in 1996 1-48" twist. I bought it mail order specifically for my first BP season deer hunt in Kentucky. There really wasn't any of the new fangled inlines around here then. I can shoot sabots, maxi-bullets or roundballs. I have never bought one of the new ones and still use it every year. I shoot round balls through it because, contrary to what I've been told, it shoots more accurate with them that the sabots or maxi-bullets. I still see them on sale.

I have one of these also, and took a deer with it at 125 yards with a conical 385 gr. HBHP. It is more accurate with round balls than with conicals.

 

[rodwha]

Ah but the question is, how much velocity do you need? The slower twist rates are for very high powder loads, AND for less cleaning between shots. In some stock shapes the less torque from the slower rates gives less of a "disagreeable recoil". Note the British .62 Baker rifle, a combat rifle not a hunting rifle was a 1:120 twist and the men were trained to shoot out to 300 yards with a 3/4 ounce ball. So we're talking 110 grains of 2F powder, and perhaps 140 grains ) I can use 70 grains of 3Fg in a 1:48 Thompson Barrel or a 1:66 Colerain barrel, and get great accuracy, and a MV of around 1400-1500 fps.

LD

When one uses a ballistics calculator to compare a lighter charge of say 70 grns to a heavier charge of say 100 grns with a ball the heavy charge loses steam faster and no longer has much of an advantage past about 75 yds. Beyond that it's negligible.

I wonder if the lighter charge working well in a faster twist was part of the reasoning behind the twist in that many of these people were moving westward and supplies likely became harder to come by. Just a curious musing...

 

[entropy]

I agree. I got my best accuracy with round ball with about 70 grains of Pyrodex 'P', and with the 385 gr. HBHP conicals and 3 gr. of 'P'. With FFFG Goex, about 60-65 gr. with round ball.