What Sort of Training Do The Police Get?

[Sam1911]

I can imagine several reasons why the average officer does not compete with civilians in USPSA or IDPA.

The biggest reason may simply be "no interest."

But a very strong second-place reason is something written about in the IDPA Journal a last year in the "Behind the Badge" section. While most cops aren't "gunny," and don't shoot much, the gun is still a badge of office and there is a perception that the wearer is competent, even proficient, with it.

There is something unsettling about showing up at a match and finishing near the bottom, behind a bunch of plumbers, accountants, truck drivers, and soccer moms ... who just happen to have been practicing and competing regularly. While logically, it only makes sense that a regular competitor would outperform someone not experienced with those kinds of shooting tests, or the competition format, it still can be a bitter pill to swallow.

A small number of cops do try the competitive shooting sports. A very small number come back a second time. And that's a shame.

 

[Ankeny]

I agree, the biggest reason is simply no interest. In my experience, we have more LEOs return to our club than we have just "regular" folks. The guys who show up once (maybe twice) never to return again are the typical posers and wannabee shooters with big egos.

As a side note, I finished dead last at my first USPSA match even though I shot at the higher levels of competition in some of the precision oriented shooting sports. I did have all A hits though.

 

[LiquidTension]

Training varies greatly by state and even more by department within states. When I went through the academy here in SC it was 9 weeks. One week of shooting and driving (not at the same time), one week of practical problems including room clearing, and one week of fun stuff like a paintball course (to teach about cover/concealment), stressfire course, vehicle egress and radio operations during a shooting incident, and some other stuff. Highway Patrol went through an extra 9 weeks of accident investigations and who knows what else.

Our academy recently went to a 12 week program. One of my friends is a driving and shooting instructor at the academy and advised me that he lost a half a day of shooting instruction with the new format when he had requested two and a half weeks instead of one. Also, everyone that goes through the academy now uses a Glock 22 and a level one retention holster, regardless of what your department issues. Obviously that was an administrative decision, not the instructors' desire.

Other states have much longer programs. I went through RAD certification with a bunch of guys in Gainesville and their academy is 26 weeks. Several other states also have 26 week programs. Depending on the department, after the academy you may also have FTO which can last anywhere from two weeks to a year.

 

[Robert]

We received something like 100 hours of firearms training might have been more. Two days a week, 4+ hours a day for most of the 6 month academy. That includes pistol and shotgun training. Our qual test was pretty much the FBI standard qual course.

 

[jackpinesavages]

From what I've heard, it sound like a civilian with a secondhand Glock, some time, an NRA basic course, and $40 to spend on ammo during a weekend could rapidly eclipse Police standards. This thread is not intended to cop bash.
__________________

Negative. I am an NRA Instructor, a MAG Instructor, and active LEO. There are no NRA courses that "eclipse" my LE training here in the Midwest.


Your opinion, based on what you've heard, is bashing Police training AND Police. Trying to hedge away from it by saying you are not, does not make it so.

 

[pbearperry]

To Mr. 316SS,it was not my attempt to lecture anyone including you.As to not being your Father,to that I am grateful. :>)

 

[mortablunt]

Cop driving seems to be pretty darn good, relative to the general populace, probably because they do a lot of hustling around corners every shift. If cops had to run through a few mags every shift, things might look different for all those defenseless ceiling tiles.

At a driving education thing I went to, I was actually in the car when the officers were giving demos of how they can drive. Needless to say, I think that an LEO could have a profitable second career as a racing driver. And running from the Cops will not work. For what it's worth, the local county police could probably form a rather effective rally team.

 

[IlikeSA]

When I was policing in Georgia, we got fairly good training. I remember we shot about 2000 rounds per person through the pistols, and at the end of the time, I did not want to shoot pistols again for a while. Most of the officers I worked with were decent shots, one trainee scared me to death on the range, having failed academy 4 times, and there were a few who were exceptional shooters, shooting every lunch period (they were older and assigned technician jobs) at 50 yards with revolvers, and this was in 2005.

One of the reasons I did not shoot more was a lack of time. Between court cases, regular work hours, and regular life, there wasn't much time for leisure. In addition, I wasn't paid a whole lot so could not afford to shoot more often.

 

[Bo]

My cousin's son went through the training academy here in Indy for IMPD. I think it was 12 weeks. He stated the training was harder than the Airborne Ranger school he went through. He's a good shot, and I don't believe I would go toe to toe with him. Of course, he's 30 and I'm over 60.

 

[lobo9er]

Your opinion, based on what you've heard, is bashing Police training AND Police.

Asking anout leo training is bashing?

Current and retired LEO's and friends, feel free to give your input.

Cuz it looks to me hes asking. Not saying police cant shoot.

 

[twofifty]

what about on-going training?

Most of the replies here completely overlook that training should not end with graduation from the police trg academy.

I'll go so far as to suggest that burning up a couple hundred rounds just prior to departmental annual or bi-annual quals isn't training, it's cramming.

Olympic athletes train year-round to win gold. Football players train year-round to win the Super Bowl. Athletes don't train to come in 2nd, and neither should police officers.

Training is on-going and methodical shooting, whether self-directed or done through one's PD or club. Those who train measure and keep track of their progress as they move towards their goal - well, top civilian competitors do anyhow.

So the OPs question remains: "What sort of training do the police get?"

 

[GRIZ22]

So the OPs question remains: "What sort of training do the police get?"

As I said before in my previous post it depends on how much the agency has to spend for continued training. Some shoot maybe 100 rds a year for qualification and thats it. The agency I worked for required a minimum of 8 hrs a quarter (it was usually more like 12-16) and the was willing to foot the bill for a fairly reasonable amount of practice ammo.

 

[Jeff22]

Police training

Firearms training requirements vary significantly from state to state. Some states have it specified in statute or administrative rule that each LEO in the state has to qualify on a standard qualification course once a year. Other states leave that up to the individual department.

I teach firearms in the local regional police academy.

The police academy is 520 hours (13 weeks) long. Included in that is a week of firearms training, a week of defensive tactics training (unarmed defense & handcuffing & oc spray) and a week of emergency vehicle operation.

Students get a total of 7 days of firearms training. They fire about 1000 rounds of handgun ammo and a "familiarization" with the AR-15 rifle of 100 rounds.

I think our basic course does a pretty good job of teaching the basic skills.

Once they get on the job, how much they shoot depends on the agency they work for. Most of the agencies in my immediate area have inservice training 4 times a year. Firearms is only part of the recurring annual training.

Generally officers will shoot 50 to 100 rnds of handgun ammo and 30-50 rounds of rifle ammo per in-service training session.

Almost always firearms training includes some kind of basic qualification from 1 to 25 yards that requires 50 or 60 rnds of ammo. Most of the rifle training is conducted at 15 & 25 & 50 yards.

Every once in a while (about once a year) we do force-on-force training using air soft guns or simunitions.

I think the training that we do in the academy provides a pretty good base. I think the training that we do at inservice does an adequate job of maintaining basic skills. Barely. I wish we should shoot more and spend more time on tactical training.

If we could shoot 150 rnds with the handgun and 60 to 100 rnds with the rifle 4 times a year, and do more exercises involving movement and engaging mulitple targets and using cover, I'd be a lot happier.

My PD does not issue practice ammo. I run about 250 rounds a month through my duty gun in practice, plus shoot in local IPSC & IDPA matches, and every year get to a few shooting schools. Generally, the PD will give me training days to attend but I have to pay tuition & expenses. Sometimes they'll give me ammo as well, but that hasn't happened in a few years. (In 2011 I went to carbine classes with Viking Tactics and Tactical Response. Don't know what 2012 will bring yet)

I have .22 conversion units for almost all my handguns, and also for the AR-15 and I use them a lot for basic skill maintenance practice.

I know a lot of cops who shoot in practice every once in a while (usually just before attending in-service training) and lots more who have never shot in practice in their life.

I know a few cops who attend specialized training, sometimes on their own time and at their own expense, and lots more who NEVER attend more than what is required.

It's like anything else. The interested and motivated improve themselves and the others just bumble along and hope to get by . . .

 

[mljdeckard]

I know there are cops that can outshoot me. But I can't remember the last time I bumped into one at the range.

 

[longrifle346]

I certainly don't consider myself a pro, just a shooter a little more dedicated than most who really enjoys pistol shooting. When I moved from the backwoods to town I lost my backyard shooting range. I learned that, after passing a background check, I could practice at a local range also used by the local PD Firearms instructor for weapons training. I watched them for quite some time. After one of their double-action sessions was over I asked the Sgt. if I could fling a few at their silhouettes with my Redhawk. I wasn't quite as fast as a couple of them, much faster than most of them, but the 44 barked steadily and the difference shown in the center mass hits prompted the Insructor to pull the target, assemble his students, and ask, "How'd you like to meet THIS SOB in an alley one night?"

 

[twofifty]

^ Now there's a great police instructor who seized the opportunity to motivate his trainees.

It would have been interesting to see how you would have done with their issue firearms, to see how good/bad the triggers and sights were.

 

[316SS]

pbearperry wrote:

To Mr. 316SS,it was not my attempt to lecture anyone including you.

I think you misunderstood me. I meant that some police officers I have interacted with may have considered me mouthy, because I don't care to listen to a lecture along with my citation, for the same reason I would never lecture a stranger about parenting, even if I don't approve of their child's behavior. It simply isn't my place. Being a beat cop is a lot like working in retail. If dealing directly with the public drives a cop crazy, then he is in the wrong line of work.

As to not being your Father,to that I am grateful. :>)

So adoption is out of the question?

 

[DesertVet]

The Agency I work for requires Officers to shoot at least four times per year often five. In addition to qualification from various positions, distances, and weak hand, there is training.
Training involves shhoting drills, shoot dont shoot, lateral movement while drawing and firing, emergency & tactical reloads, shooting on the move, using cover & concealment.
All shooting drills are timed. We have very good shooters, poor shooters who require additional training, and everthing in between.
Each year we do force on force training as well with simunitions.
I believe that even our "non gun" Officers are given realistic, relevant, challenging firearms training four to five times per year for the better part of a day at a time with additional remedial training if needed. ALL our officers do meet State and Federal guidelines for training and qualification...no excetions.
We send officers every year to NRA courses or other firearms related or shooting schools.
We have an unusually high number of Officers on our Department who do shoot as a hobby I think.
The training is relevant to what our Officers are facing which may or may not be the very same requirements as a bullseye shooter or a competition shooter.

 

[twofifty]

^ Thx DesertVet.

That there's a PD that takes firearms training seriously.
I especially like that a timer is used, which allows the officers to actually measure their progress session to session.

The timer might even encourage a fun competitive spirit which would drive the officers to outdo each other... Those who really want to prevail might train on their own time or dime.

 

[Moose1995]

In my town, I don't think much is required in the way of firearm training. I don't know for sure as I am not a LEO. However, I saw a deer get hit by a car and have both its back legs broken. It was struggling at the side of the road, so I pulled it away from traffic and called the police. An older female officer arrived about 25 minutes later, and called in asking what she should do. They told her to go ahead and shoot it, and that they had someone that would come and pick it up later. She draws her weapon, pulls back the slide, and fires. Oh, wait....safety is on. Lets try again. She turns off the safety, and pulls back the slide AGAIN. Hence ejecting a live round. She picks it up, and then proceeds to shoot this poor deer in the neck and throat 5 times before it finally gags on its own blood. I was pissed. I happened to have a 22-250 rifle in my car, and should have just done the job myself without calling the cops. Afterwards, I asked "why didn't you just shoot it in the head?" With her reply being "I am not going to chance a ricochet." Are you kidding me? From 5 feet away? This woman was in serious need of some training. Sorry for ranting, but to the OP, I am sure the training varies considerably by town, county, state, and other variables.

 

[lemaymiami]

Moose... contact that PD and ask to speak to a supervisor and tell them what you saw... They may already know (or just not care) about that individual's competence. But they might surprise you and make sure she's up to speed. As was previously said on this thread the level of training varies widely on different departments. Unless someone speaks up about that sort of stuff how would the Chief know about it?

 

[Jeff22]

truer words never spoken

"Unless someone speaks up about that sort of stuff how would the Chief know about it? "

That is so right, in so many different ways and situations, you couldn't even believe it . . .

 

[Surf]

Considering there is somewhere around 800,000 or so sworn LE in somewhere north of 17,000 agencies, I think there is no simple answer to the question and the small samplings of what is being shared in this thread is really more than erroneous in the grand scale of things.

 

[FMF Doc]

The reality is that most LEOs, at any level are sorely underfunded and therefore under trained. Even in agencies that have few officers but a large budget due to the graces of a good tax base rarely see that money go into training, at least not in firearms. More often than not that money is spent on new equiptment, advanced FEMA NIMS blah blah blah training, computers, etc... Even when looking at specialized groups like LAPD SWAT or even FBI HRT, while their training is significantly more than a basic officer, it is not onthe level of the Spec Ops guys in the military that often do the same type if not exact same job. That is why ex-Spec Op guys are so highly saught out by agencies. It helps makeup for the poor training curve that exist due to budget constraints. At the local range I shoot at, I frequently see LOEs from agencies in and around the area qualifying or practicing in the lane a few down from me. It is often disheartening to see the lack of proficency that is the direct result of a lack of training in many young officers/deputies. Thankfully few criminals have any training themselves, and thus the field is evened. I am glad to see that companies like Glock, Sig, S&W have LEO specials to get good firearms in the hands of the brave men and women that protect us all here at home. Now lets see if we can get the ammunition manufactures to hook these people up with ammo to practice!!!

Rant complete.

 

[8654Maine]

Hey FMF doc, by your handle I assume you're a Corpsman. S/F.

I was in the Corps in the 80's. My unit started cross training w/ various SWAT/SRT teams. We were just in the infancy of HRT/DA missions from the USMC side.

Those SWAT guys were pretty squared away and their weapons handling was commendable. And big egos, but they walked the walk.