What to expect from a Pat Rogers Course?

[Tsonda]

I am taking a Pat Rogers course in Feb. does anyone have any experience with him? In general what can I expect? I am also trying to decide if I should shoot one of my stock FAL's or use my AR. I have yen to get a new AR upper and get more time on the AR system in general.

All help is appreciated.

Thanks,

James

 

[Jeff White]

Hi James,
I have trained with Pat 3 times. Pat's not adverse to other weapons on the line, but the course is really designed around the AR.

A search here in the Strategies and Tactics forum should bring up a few reviews of his course.

You can also go over to 10-8 forums and read reviews of most of his classes.
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?Cat=0

HTH and if you have any questions just ask. Pat may drop in himself, he posts here occasionally.

Jeff

 

[Tsonda]

Thanks Jeff, I appreciate the help as the net is a big place to find things sometimes. Sorry I posted in the wrong forum.

James

 

[Bix]

I took Pat's class last summer (with Jeff, in fact).

I would add that if you decide to get that new upper for your AR, you'll need to convert it from a 'new' upper to an 'old' upper before class.

As I'm sure you know or have heard: don't show up at a school with unproven equipment - - you cheat yourself and your classmates.

The wealth of AARs on the web should give you a good idea of what to expect at Pat's classes, but, as Jeff said, feel free to ask specific questions.

 

[Tsonda]

Thanks, guys I have spent the morning researching and cutting and pasting the good stuff.

James

 

[Pat_Rogers]

Tsonda,
While you are welcome to bring a FAL, AK, SiG, Mini 14 or 40 watt directed energy weapon to class, the course is designed around the M4 platform.
All of the TTP's are designed around the M4 platform.

What that means is that while you will shoot and probably have fun, you won't learn a whole lot about working with anything other then the M4 system.

If 19 people have AR's and one has something different, it would not be fair to the rest of the class for me to spend 50% of instructor time to cater to one guy, while everyone else has the same platform.

Your choice of course, but if you want- as you stated- to get more time on the AR, you probably need to do exactly that.
If you want to run 7.62x51, may i suggest Randy Cain, Louie Awerbuck or Pat Goodale- all who run excellent rifle classes.

 

[Tsonda]

Thanks guys

I have not been checking this for some time. Pat I have decided to go with a carbine. Thanks a bunch and I look forward to the class.

James

 

[Pat_Rogers]

Hi James,
Good to go. You will probably learn a lot more, and spend less time playing catch up. Looking forward to seeing you in class.

 

[buzz_knox]

A note of advice if you are taking one of Pat's courses: learn the doctrine of "push pull" when inserting a magazine (push the magazine in and pull to see if it's seated) and get in the habit of only loading 28 rounds in mags. It will save a lot of embarassment later on.

I, of course, speak from experience.

 

[Pat_Rogers]

Buzz,
The Pat definition of experience is "What you get when you don't get what you want"

Sometimes commiting a mortal sin (such as dropping that failed to seat magazine on the deck while i'm standing behind you; or, being unable to seat that magazine because you belong to the "it says 30 rounds and that's what i put into it" crowd) makes a better teaching point then if you do it all correctly.
It is all about building skill sets, and repition under supervision it what is needed.

 

[Jeff White]

Buzz,
I don't remember you forgetting to push-pull. Now for me, it took a long time before I unlearned all those years of the Army teaching to SLAP the magazine into the magwell.....

Jeff

 

[Old Pa]

40 watt directed energy weapon

 

[buzz_knox]

Buzz,
The Pat definition of experience is "What you get when you don't get what you want"

Sometimes commiting a mortal sin (such as dropping that failed to seat magazine on the deck while i'm standing behind you; or, being unable to seat that magazine because you belong to the "it says 30 rounds and that's what i put into it" crowd) makes a better teaching point then if you do it all correctly.
It is all about building skill sets, and repition under supervision it what is needed.

Well, so much for my hopes of you're forgetting my sins. Training under you and Louis certainly does keep me on my toes: I'm less likely to do stupid things as they will certainly be spotted and never be forgotten. Every time I run into Louis, he says my name three times slowly while shaking his head, as if remembering everything I've screwed the pooch on. Ah, well, if I can't get into SWAT one way, I'll get in there another.

Jeff, as you can see, it wasn't the "push pull" or transition that I forgot. It was that little issue of "fully" loading a mag. Whoops.

 

[Jeff White]

Buzz,
Our sins on the range are always magnified when we're at school. Louis and I stumbled through my fumbling with the bolt release of my Benelli M121 M1.

Push-pull was totally alien to me after 29 years of SLAP. The first couple of Pat's classes I fumbled with push-pull.

But that's what we go to school for, to learn. I can say that the time you spend with one of the masters is some of the best training time you can have. Louis took one look at how I was doing tac reloads with my then dept issue Glock 21 and in 2 minutes showed me a method to work with those fat magazines. Never had a problem with it since. Pat taught me how to shoot while moving after observing that I, "looked like I was giving birth to a Democrat". Very few instructors can look at a student and come up with the solution to his problem in just a few seconds.

I spent a lot of years in the Army shooting and training soldiers to shoot. I am quite familiar with all of the approved Army methods. That's why I made sure that my son trained with Pat before he deployed to Iraq. BTW, Mark was top shooter in his company when they shot Reflexive Fire on their pre-deployment work up.

Jeff

 

[El Tejon]

That's why they call it skul. Move forward by falling on your face. That's my excuse. At least I'm not too cool to train.

Ensure your weapon is squared away and functioning like it should. Bring another.

You will find that Pat is open to questions regarding optimal gear. Thus, if you are a gearophobe like me (this is partly a pysch reaction because I never did the "cool guy" stuff in the military or LE, although I did talk on the phone a lot and learn to make great coffee) Pat is more than happy to take your questions.

Say you show up to class with a C-More [], Pat will take the time to pry your wallet open and update your gear with a combination of logic and deserved sarcasm.

 

[Denny Hansen]

Teaching someone how to shoot a firearm is not complicated. Pat Rogers teaches how to fight with a firearm; the two should not be confused. I highly recommend his courses.

Denny

 

[Tsonda]

Thanks again

Guys, I really do appreciate the advice. I am really pumped to go to the class. I am spending "quality time" with my the new carbine and loving it.

 

[runninmike]

Hi Pat-from Sgt Mike Christofferson

Hi Gunner Rogers-
just a hello from the past from Sgt Mike Christofferson from Quantico, wasn't able to email you through normal channels, thought I would add my greeting to this thread. Interesting stuff here!
How's the M1-As running? Still shooting hi-power?
I've been out for 12 years, but stumble accross old friends from time to time, was glad to see you are still at it! Would be fun to catch one of your classes here in Socal.
Best-Mike
WTBN, Quantico
2112/RTE shop

 

[Pat_Rogers]

Brother!
Great to hear from you!
I stipped shooting HP a few years ago after going Distinguished and High Master with the rifles you built- THANKS!!!
I'm in Woodbridge VA now, for all the obvious reasons.
I seldom do other than .mil classes in CA. However, i am doing one in Casa Grande AZ in March.
Unknown if you can make it but would love to see you again!!!
My e addy is [email protected] www.eagtactical.com
Drop me a COMM shot when you can!