What to look for in a safe

[orpington]

I am paying a significant amount in insurance for longarms, and I am thinking of getting a safe instead. What should I look for? Would like something that would survive a fire with NO DAMAGE so I don't have to insure. I have a burglar alarm already.

 

[Byrd666]

Not knowing where you are, I'll pass this link along anyway. I bought a Canon 24 gun safe from them a short while back and couldn't be happier. These guys know what they are talking about and taught me quite a bit.

http://www.gunsafesbykennedyskorner.com/

Do a YT search on gun safe info. There was a real informative video on there that also taught me quite a bit. Thought I saved the link, but I can't find it.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Would like something that would survive a fire with NO DAMAGE so I don't have to insure.

That's going to cost far more than you're paying for insurance.

 

[prprd1]

I personally like the liberty fatboy Jr.

When I was safe shopping that seemed to be the most bang for my buck.

I would suggest you look at the distance you live from the local fire station and take response time into consideration. Safe have different fire ratings which can make all the difference in the world. Also please remember even if the contents of the safe survive the fire they may still be susceptible to water damage.

 

[Librarian]

A useful introduction is http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsafes.html

We identify the most important qualities you should look for in a safe, and help you with the tough decisions, such as "Should I get a digital lock or a dial lock?", "What kind of fire-proofing is most effective?", "How big a safe do I really need?", and "What interior works best with long-barreled scoped rifles?" We review many of the better safes on the market, including innovative designs from Browning, and Zanotti. Plus you'll find expert advice on how to install your safe in your home and how to keep the contents free from rust.

 

[CWL]

Be realistic. I don't think there are any commercial gun safes that rate " no damage" for fires. Typically, commercial safes only certify an ability to withstand a specific number of hours and temperature exposure. Even bank vaults only carry ratings.

Rather than believing that a safe will foil robbers and fires, you should consider it as one more piece of your defense. Alarms and insurance are additional pieces.

 

[suemarkp]

I think I'd focus more on the room the safe is in than the safe if that is possible. I'd still get a safe with some fire resistant rating, but then put in it a fire resistant room e.g. outside perimeter basement wall of concrete, walls with double 5/8 sheetrock on both sides of the wall, and double 5/8 rock on the ceiling. A basement closet that bumps out into the dirt and has no wood or combustibles on top is even better (e.g. a concrete patio roof). Minimal penetrations (except the door which should be steel and maybe a metal HVAC duct). You could put a sprinkler in the room but they are a double edge sword (if they go off you may end up with water damage, which sucks if some non-fire event triggered it). Raise the safe ~6" off the ground in case there's a few inches of water on the floor from sprinklers or fire fighting.

 

[mooosie]

If you have a basement and room you might consider building a gun room use a corner of your basement then you already have two walls get a block layer to build the other two walls with door opening make sheet metal ceiling I foot below basement ceiling poor concrete on sheetmetal to form concrete ceiling door should be 5/8 plate with hinges on inside cross bar to lock door it is not impossible to get into it is fire proof for quite a long time burglars do not have a lot of time when they break in if you have an alarm they only a few minuets they are going to grab what is loose and run or get caught room is also great for loading bench and supplies you should pay less for this than a good safe especially if you do some work yourself

 

[MAKster]

The fire protection offered by gun safes isn't much of a benefit in my opinion. The way they work is that the dry wall lining in the safe get so hot that all the moisture vaporized and cools off the inside of the safe in a steam bath. If the fire was bad enough to cause this to happen your house is most likely destroyed and you won't be able to get in for a while because it is unsafe. And then you'll probably need to have a locksmith drill the safe open. By then your guns are likely ruined by rust.

 

[Sentryau2]

No wafer locks unless its a good company, no cylinder locks period no pad locks and no "bio metric" locks. Buy quality dont buy sheetmetal strong boxes. 1/4inch thick walls optimum, 1/6th minimum. Should be able to find one rated for fire/water protection.

 

[Walkalong]

Fire is tough to keep guns safe from with just a safe. It isn't too hard to get that room sprinkled. A great addition to a good fire safe.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=9115611&postcount=93

 

[DoubleMag]

longest firing rating combined with biggest safe you can afford. You'll end up stashing other stuff in there...CDs, cameras, loose cash, keys, etc.
Active bolts on all sides of door, hinges are to swing door // NOT part of security.
Security bolt holes in all four corners of safe to bolt to floor.
Go for 60 minutes or better fire rating.
UL LISTED.
American steel. Like another poster stated...thickest you can afford.
Bolt it down. Cover bolts/bolt holes inside safe with heat resistant caulk such as, fireplace caulk.


Staying under a grand $$ will be very difficult . Good luck!!

 

[Sav .250]

You can go on line and get all the spec`s you need ........... Plus, what folks on here have offered.

 

[rodinal220]

Buy the best RSC you can afford. Look at where you can place it in your abode. If you can put it in a corner with two concrete walls,at least two sides will be better protected from fire. Think about installing a sprinkler above your RSC,this can increase survival for its contents.

Can you build a safe room room around your RSC?? If you have the space and cash,build a safe room to provide extra protection from fire. It can be geared more for fire than keeping out burglars,but still offer some extra protection from snoops and low level threats.

 

[hso]

That's going to be a challenge to find a no damage to contents gun safe since you have to protect the contents from elevated temps of a fire for a long time that can damage as well as moisture producing a sauna while keeping water from the fire department's efforts to save your home out.

We have a couple of actual safe experts that should be along to provide some info, but the advice on placing whatever you get to minimize the burn time, temp, and water exposures to help the safe protect the contents is an important consideration.

 

[Savage99]

My next safe would be one I could move or put in place myself. Such safes are made by Zanotti, Snap Safe, Champion and perhaps others.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Body and door construction. That's the stuff that our local experts point out. Thickness of bolts don't amount to much when all they're attached to is thin sheetmetal. Thickness of door is nothing when it's a thin gauge steel with sheetrock filling. Door and door frame rigidity as some can be opened with pry-bars. Let's hope our in-house experts chime in.

 

[Ed Ames]

I assume from your mention of insurance that you already have a "gun safe" and want to go to the next level?

Think layered defenses. Sprinklers can be retrofit if your house doesn't have them. Proper fire resistant design elements can be incorporated in your house. Type X gypsum can be spaced outside your safe. The safe can be in a part of the house with minimal fuel. On the security side, the safe should be the final barrier, not the first.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Good point Ed.

I used to teach layered security. What are you protecting against?

Layers begins with neighborhood. Got good neighbors who will call the cops and be good witnesses? Then perimeter. Got a dog? Fences, lights and for those with ducats, sensors and cameras.

How are doors and windows protected? Are glass covered with some sort of laminate? Type of locks. Glass break?

Inside the house, motion sensors if they get past the door or windows? What interior doors are alarmed? What motion sensor in each room?

Is there a back up power supply to keep these systems going?

Then hidden away the last line is the safe itself. Are your tools secured? I know one gunsmith who locks up his torch tips so his acetylene and oxygen tanks can't be used to cut through his safe. Are your powered drills/cutoff tools, electric saws secured so they can't be used against it?

 

[otrman]

Check out www.sturdysafe.com. IMO they make the best gun safes. Lots of options, may not be as pretty as some, but wasn't buying looks.

 

[oneounceload]

The better safes will use a poured in place fire slurry material that is installed after the safe is set up. Better than sheetrock.

 

[CB900F]

Orpington;

All the information you need has already been posted here on THR by either myself or A1abdj. I'm a retired locksmith who specialized in safe sales. A1abdj is still active in the business.

First determine if you want a Residential Security Container (RSC) or a true safe, they are two very different animals. However, it seems from your initial post that you want high-grade fire protection, and that means going beyond the fluff time/temp figures put out by the RSC manufacturers. I'd strongly suggest reviewing the U.L. requirements to pass their one hour thermal protection test. You can find my synopsis of the requirements here on THR, or go to the U.L. website. In my professional opinion, there is not an RSC maker who's product meets that test's minimum standards.

If you are in or near an urban area, check for ALOA/SAVTA locksmiths. They may have a used unit that meets, or can be adapted to, your needs. Sometimes these used commercial units can be had at very attractive prices, though they frequently are anything but beauty queens. However, decals of elk bugling and gloss paint add exactly nothing to the protective ability of the box they're applied to.

Failing that, I am aware of only three true safes being sold to the consumer market these days. They are: AMSEC (and only the very high-end of their extensive line), Brown, and Graffunder. I used to sell Graffunder, and can still do so on-line. I do have customers here on THR and you are more than welcome to openly ask here for references.

900F

 

[RustyShackelford]

Browning.....

If you want to learn more about features, you should check www.Browning.com . They have a detailed description of what works best for the safes they sell.

I like the Black Label series for "armed professionals" but the other models look good too.
The main points are fire safety, prevention of scuffs/rust/moisture & security.

Using bore store bags or products like Rid-X can help.
Some advise using gun care products like Eezox, FrogLube grease or LPX but I don't think you need a large amount of grease or oil.

Rusty

 

[a1abdj]

There is only one thing that I have consistently seen survive fires, tornadoes, earthquakes, and dedicated attacks are UL rated bank vaults. The only peril that I have seen them fail to protect against is a flood, and usually in those cases, they were installed below sea level.

If you have a million dollar collection, this may be a good option for you. Depending on size, you would likely be looking at a starting point of $30,000 for a small modular, including assembly.

 

[HRnightmare]

I bought an AMSEC. The model escapes me. It had much stronger and thicker skin than many of the competitors. It also had a far superior fire rating. It was 90 mins at a certain temp (I don't recall) others in its price range and quality range were way less, some as little as 30 mins, most 45-60.

Quite frankly if your house is STILL on fire after 30-45 mins your FD needs to be fired or re-trained.