What to watch for in pressure and chrono - using Clays and 230

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NickEllis

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I just started reloading, and am working up a load to shoot major.

Components:
230 grn winchester FMJ
CCI primers
Win brass
OAL 1.250
straight Clays

Shooting out of a 5' stock Kimber

I've got ten rounds each loaded for 3.8, 3.9. 4.0, 4.1, 4.2, and 4.3 grains of straight Clays, dropped from a Dillon 550.


My question:

As I chrono these loads, what should I be watching for? My goal is to reach major, not to push the boundaries of the load. What are the danger signs as I work up higher in pressure?

Edited to ask: By the way, any suggestions besides the FMJ, pros/cons? I had a bunch of them and used them, didn't think much about other bullets.
 
We I am fairly certain that 3.8gr won't make major with FMJ. I used plated 230gr... and with 3.8gr I was just about 700 ft/sec ave. FMJ would be less for sure. I think you will want to be around 4.1/4.2gr but you need to validate it for yourself.

What to look for? You answered your own question- enough to meet power factor. At those speeds you shouldn't have pressure issues. Most commercial loads are well over 800 ft/sec for 230gr.
 
Thanks, I'll keep working up and chrono'ing until I get to major. Seems pretty straightforward.

I didn't figure that I would see any physical signs of pressure, but rather was wondering in terms of the velocity. Is there any standard variations that typically happen to the velocity that I should watch for as I work my way up through the pressure? Does the velocity plateau at some point, where a further increase of pressure doesn't do much for the velocity?
 
Caveat: my comments are based on 'general knowledge' about load development, NOT on specific knowledge with this forumula and its variants.

As you approach maximum loads, your chronograph readings will probably show wider ESs--that is, Extreme Spreads--and a notable variance, up or down in the delta that exists between recipe variations. That is, whereas earlier in the charge weights a one-tenth grain increment resulted in a fifteen fps increase, at the pressure limit it 'suddenly' results in no change, or 25 fps--that sort of change. If this happens, back off. Period. Back up at least two-tenths, or 5%, and regroup.

Then try tweaking other variables--a minor change in crimp, possibly a change in LOA, a different primer--that sort of variation. Lee's reloading has a good discussion of this, even though its based in rifle cartridges and pressures. It's early in the book; look it up at read it.

Luggernut has it about right--you should have no trouble reaching major within pressure specs. But, successful reloading suggests you are sure you have the fundamentals down first.


Given the fact that you are new to reloading, I would suggest that prior to jumping in on this project, you learn to do development load techniques that will teach you how to build consistent ammo.

Focus on building some lower / medium range rounds that will find the sweet spot for accuracy with your particular firearm. Chrono the rounds; do the tweaks that get you low SDs, and look for the correlations that give you good accuracy first.

Personally, I would start with NEW brass, but at the minimum it should be brass that, if used, is sorted by headstamp and, arguably, trimmed to the same length.

I do this with pistol calibers by first selecting the general recipe I want to use and starting with the minimum charge. Once I am sure I have the dies set up for proper physical assembly--for .45ACP, that would be the proper LOA for good feeding, and the proper (taper) crimp, then I

1. Load 20-round batches of the minimum level, then
2. increase the charge weight by two-tenths grain, and
3. load another twenty rounds, and
4. repeat as needed until I stop about two-tenths below the manual's max charge.

Try using the ammo this way--after testing your general skills by shooting some "extra" rounds you've built:

1. Fire 5 rounds 'normally' and concentrate on noting feed, ejection, and your own (subjective) interpretation of recoil.

2. Fire a second 5 rounds to look for accuracy--i.e., from a benchrest (IMO).

3. Compare this to your own recall of factory ammo loads you've shot, and write this information down.

4. Now fire five shots for chrono readings. If you see inconsistent results, fire a second string of five rounds to confirm (or not confirm) the kind of data set you are getting.


Jim H.
 
Jim,

Excellent advice, all of it.

I had read somewhere that extreme spreads would start to show near maximum loads, and wanted to verify. Since the .45 won't show much in terms of physical signs of internal pressure, I figured that velocity might demonstrate something.

I'm loaded down near 3.2g of Clays, at minimum loads, and work up from there. I've also measured/weighed all charges for consistency in the 80 rounds I've got loaded up in .1g increments, and also weighed all finished rounds. The Dillon is dropping very consistent charges of Clays, with max variations being less than .1

On the crimp issue, do you crimp at all with the .45ACP? I've just been rounding back the bell, to within a three or four hundredths as compared to the lower case size. I had heard that over-crimping would lead to a degrading of accuracy. Thoughts?

Thanks

Nick
 
Last edited:
Nick--

1. Thanks for the compliment.

2. About the loads--I knew you were near the bottom; I just haven't used Clays in .45ACP. As for powder drop consistency: it's good you are learning how your equipment functions--the trick is to learn those characteristics so that you will have a reasonable probability that your loads are consistent.

Always remember that reloading is really just an exercise in probability. in SDs, as it were: That is in SDs in "the big picture" of 1000s of rounds, or in the probability that this given recipe loaded on this given gear with these particular techniques will result in this kind of performance 99.999 % of the time.

3. As for crimping--I crimp a bit more than closing the bell, so to speak, on well-used cases. On new brass, I do minimum crimping, mostly based on 100% function in my firearm. That is to say, I make sure there are no chambering issues.

Personally, I developed my barely-Major loads using 200-gr LSWCs instead of 230-gr bullets. For me, that resulted in less recoil and more accuracy. (I come from a marksmanship background, so I went that way partly as a matter of bias.)

These are shot from a match grade barrel (Bar-Sto), so I generally don't worry about accuracy anymore. AFAICT, the issues of over-crimping are really not a factor at Club-level competition accuracy needs--and, really, those issues come in mostly for bullseye shooters.

So, for you, I suggest you put a bit of crimp on--enough to ensure 100% function, and you need to do that while sorting out your LOAs. Find the 'right' physical parameters first, and then go after the Major fps issue--unless you coincidentally find it at the same time.

Jim H.
 
I don't think 3.2 is a starting load for 230gr FMJ .45ACP. 3.8gr is very light... I can't imagine 3.2gr. FWIW Hodgdon suggests 3.5gr starting load for 230gr LRN (1.200" COL though).

Check it out:
http://data.hodgdon.com

Oh and FWIW- I only crimp enough to remove the bell and to allow good chambering. When I remove a bullet (after assembly) I see only a slight mark around the bullet on my plating. Remember- the crimp on .45ACP is not what holds the bullet... it's neck tension.
 
Guys, thanks for the great responses. That gives me a great deal to start working through.

I know 3.2 is really low for 230's, they were actually the starting loads I used to figure out the "system". I may end up pulling them and recycling the rounds, if the Hodgdon's manual lets me start higher.

I love this forum, great information from the gunners here. Thanks for taking the time.

Nick
 
Strange, I usually get lower values for extreme spread and standard deviation as the powder charge approaches and reaches maximum. I figure the powder is burning more thoroughly at the more severe conditions.

In regard to Clays, fire up the chronograph and gradually increase loads until you JUST make Major. Or max out on handbook data. Clays is really a little too fast for full power .45 jacketed bullets. I only use it for light loads, preferably with moly coated lead.
 
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