.45 200gr SWC and Clays

[lordpaxman]

I'm developing loads for the Bayou Bullets 200gr SWC. I've settled on a COL of 1.245" so they run in my P220, but recently have been seeing what they do in a S&W 625 for major.

I've got workup done for a 170 PF using IMR Red, IMR Target, WST, N320, AA2, ASP and W244. For these powders, I'm at or below minimum powder weights to make 170. Clays, however, is a mystery to me.
Hodgdon says 3.6-4.3 at 1.225", I ran a ladder from 3.8-4.3 and only got to a 162PF at 4.3. I pushed it a bit and tried 4.4 which took me to 164. The velocity increase was roughly linear across the ladder. I calculate I'd need 4.6gr to make close to 170. I know I'm loading .020" longer than Hodgdon data, but there's a reason for that.
The WST and ASP loads are really nice, however my colleagues like Clays for a number of reasons.

If I continue with Clays, I'll be above max on the grain weight but not outside the velocity max. I was just wondering if others had opinions on using Clays? What I found interesting is in the 625, all the other powders were near or below the minimums except for Clays. It just seemed odd to me.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Be warned, Clays has been known to spike pressures up at the leaves you are testing. Just because it is behaving right now doesn't mean it will tomorrow. Clays is a very fast powder. When making power I don't recommend such a fast powder. Since you already tried AA#2 give AA#5 a try. It was developed around the 45 ACP.

 

[Galil5.56]

I'm just a can skipper, dirt clod plinker, and will at times punch paper to establish an informal accuracy baseline - Clays in this application works very well for me, and is very clean if that matters. Maybe this recent post of mine will help with your decision:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...d-for-sti-target-master.848960/#post-11079632

I'm a poor excuse of a true marksman, but this load from my P220 hits right where I aim em consistently, and I have no doubt would be magic too in my three 1911's, even my S&W 1917. Good luck.

 

[rabid wombat]

I know it is not Clays, but WST has worked well for me. I use the following, which is similar to yours:

200 grain lead flat point bullet by Roger (BetterBullets)
5.1 grains WST
Winchester Large Primers
COL = 1.220
mixed brass

This is giving me an average of ~900 fps, and about a 180 for the PF. Been shooting it for years in 1911’s and 625’s

Standard cautions on sharing load data. YMMV

 

[lordpaxman]

Be warned, Clays has been known to spike pressures up at the leaves you are testing.

Thanks for the warning. I'm aware of Clays other side, but it has some qualities that are desirable. I'll put #5 on the todo list.

Clays in this application works very well for me, and is very clean if that matters.

That is one of the aspects of developing this load. I've reviewed your posts and others and agree it's soft shooting and groups well, it's just that for it's spec'd load range does not give me the velocities I expected. I may try other primers with this, I use CCI for most of my pistol loads. I also did not do the PF, PL, or PB testing, it was just level shooting. I believe IDPA chrono testing gives every advantage to the load meaning "tilt the gun up before firing if allowed", but USPSA does not.

I know it is not Clays, but WST has worked well for me.

WST is my go to load - 4.6gr with that SWC and I'm just about 170PF in the 625.. It's clean, meters better than Clays and almost as soft shooting.

 

[Galil5.56]

I still think you can easily and very safely make 165-170/850 fps with Clays. I mentioned in the link as well about peakyness I have experienced with Clays... But it really manifests itself in rounds like .38 Special using deep seated W/C bullets (esp so with it's rather low max allowed pressures), small capacity/high working pressures rounds like 9mm, etc.

Here is some Lyman data using a very conventional 200 gr SWC bullet w/Clays, with a similar OAL, having very mild pressure well below even std max allowed pressures. Look to the right, and even when increasing the bullet weight by 25 grains and spec'ing just a 1/10 grain less Clays, pressures are still well under std allowable max. **Designates use of Federal cases, noted in the manual FWIW.


I would be the last person to endorse, recommend, or give the green light to pushing it to the floorboards with Clays; just the same I would have no problem whatsoever using 4.5-4.6 grains in differing test conditions to see if it will do what I want. Of course you/me/everybody will note it's less than perfect metering, so of course that falls within the calculus.

You, I, about a zillion others can recommenced propellants that can easily do what you want, but I still think Clays has the ability to do it too, with plenty of safety. Good luck.

 

[PO2Hammer]

Clays for accuracy, something else for power.

 

[627PCFan]

For me clays was never as accurate in 38 special and 185,200 and LIGHT 230gn 45acp. In 45 I had large velocity SD and it was magnified by mixed brass. AA#5 is a smart choice as is hp-38.

 

[lordpaxman]

I still think you can easily and very safely make 165-170/850 fps with Clays

It would be nice, to be safe. I loaded a 4.4, 4.5 and 4.6 spread, and this resulted in an average 166, 169, and 172PF. ES was 32 in all cases, there were no obvious pressure signs. Recoil was very tame and groups were all an inch or under at 10 yards.