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What would be your general recommendation for CCW?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Skribs, Nov 27, 2012.

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  1. JohnBiltz

    JohnBiltz Member

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    I don't think I've ever heard so much bull in a single thread before. Here is a simple truth, its the archer not the arrow. The NYPD all 34,000 of it manages to make a G19 work. The US military manages to make a M9 and M16 work quite well. All kinds of police departments manage to get by with what they issue. Its not rocket science.

    Here is another simple truth almost everyone chooses wrong the first time. I doubt one in ten of us who carry are still carrying their first gun. If you add in first gun in first holster and belt and I doubt its one in five hundred.

    Buy something reliable in a decent caliber that is small enough to carry. After that everything is just is just options.
     
  2. rswartsell

    rswartsell Member

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    My mindset and skillset equated to Colt Detective Special. I feel real good about that. Whaddaya know? My first choice.
     
  3. Cee Zee

    Cee Zee member

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    This is why I think this whole thread is based on a flawed premise - that there is a starting point for looking at guns. Personally I think a 1911 is a century old design who's time has come and gone everywhere except the target range. The capacity is limited. The size is too big. The weight is too much. And the operation is too complicated. All of those things are wrong for a first time shooter. These are the reasons a Glock comes to mind early. They hold a lot of rounds. They are light. They aren't too big. And when you pull the trigger it goes bang without a lot of thinking going on between seeing danger and reacting to danger.

    CCW guns should not be full size pistols. They should be simple, light weight, and accurate enough to get the job done. There are many pistols that fit that bill. Glock is just one of them. I have a Taurus that I wouldn't trade for any Glock made though. It's a fabulous concealed carry piece. It's the gun I bought when I went looking to buy a Glock in fact.

    But I have to say that "looking sexy" has nothing to do with why I would buy a gun. If I wanted something that looked sexy I'd buy the latest issue of Playboy but I don't think those mags hold enough ammo.

    Guns clearly must be bought to suit the shooter. An accomplished shooter can make a 1911 work but for a beginner? No way. I don't mean to step on toes here but I can hear the flame guns warming up as I type. I actually own a very nice pistol that resembles a 1911 in many ways except it's an improved design. It's a Sig P220. I carried it for years. I don't carry it now because other guns are MUCH better as a CCW gun. But if I want to shoot tiny groups on targets I'll take the Sig with me. It's the same with a 1911. In 1945 they were great pistols compared to what else was available around the world. But most people saw them as not that great in those days. People wanted German guns FWIW. But the Swiss were making the masterpiece gun within a few years after the war, a Sig P210. Since then the 1911 has become a shooter's gun. It is not a CCW gun IMO. Other guns do that job MUCH better especially for beginners.

    Again a gun should be bought to fit the owner. I can see me telling my daughter she needs a 1911 when she can't even rack the slide on a .380. Maybe I should have told her a .44 magnum was a great concealed carry piece. Guns should fit their owners just like clothes fit their owners. Show me a person who wants to buy a gun and I'll work with them on what to get. But a catchall gun? Those only exist in the minds of fanboys to be honest.
     
  4. psyopspec

    psyopspec Member

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    Precisely. But out of those guns, the G19 would be what I would point to and say, "You might give this one a try first." It's a gun, not a marriage.

    Since you've resorted to name calling, I have to ask what parade I've thrown by suggesting a certain gun might be a good place to start? For the record, I don't carry a Glock 19, nor do I start a new shooter off with one. That's what the .22 is for. In the past, I've given dozens of one-on-one introductions to firearms. Not only without a fee, but I joyfully supplied the ammo simply because I care that much about responsible firearms ownership and enjoy teaching others.

    You've provided some great answers, but they were to a question that wasn't asked. The OP didn't ask what the best way to get into handgun shooting was. He didn't ask what the best way to find the best handgun for a given person was. He asked for a catch-all recommendation, which I agree we can interpret as "good starting point." He gave us the purpose of the gun. To entertain the hypothetical exercise, I gave an answer.

    I reiterate that it's a gun, not a marriage. They try the Glock, they don't like it, they move on having gained knowledge about what doesn't fit, which makes the search for what works that much easier. And if it happens to work out, that's great too. But at the end of the day, this is a hypothetical question on the internet. :)
     
  5. holdencm9

    holdencm9 Member

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    Exactly. There is no "right" gun for me, or anyone. Some are better than others, but I like to think I could make just about anything work, therefore reliability/durability and other factors like cost, capacity, company, CS, size, etc. come into play. So "Whatever feels good in the hand and you shoot best" is not always the best advice. And there is this concept that they have to get it right the first time. I have friends who stress and research every little thing and then go back and forth and just can't decide...just buy something already, and start practicing!
     
  6. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

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    GO TO THE RANGE (or better, go to a gun store with a range)
    and fondle some guns, shoot them,
    cause you need to find something you like and are accurate with
    then you have to figure out how to hang it off you....

    and that my friend is a COMPLETELY different can of worms......
     
  7. smalls

    smalls Member

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    They don't have a choice. Thankfully we do, because I can't stand the feel of an M9. This is exactly why there are thousands of different makes and models of guns. They each have different qualities, and certain people like certain grip angles, widths, sizes and other features.
     
  8. Texan Scott

    Texan Scott Member

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    Rosary beads. If you don't know jack about handguns, and don't really care to put thought or effort into it, get a good swiss army knife and an led light- both of the size that fit on a key ring- for small problems, and a good chunky rosary for everything else.
     
  9. Apachedriver

    Apachedriver Member

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    Interesting post.

    No flames from me for your opinions. We all have our own.

    However, you're contradicting yourself in it as well as stating some things as reasonable fact when they're just opinions. The writeup also makes me wonder as to what experience your basing them on. Peacetime Military, Combat Vet, LEO, Private Citizen, Contractor?

    The last part is just rhetorical.
     
  10. gbw

    gbw Member

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    Just another opinion, if this is truly the extent of their knowledge, interest, and level of responsibility towards owning a gun then they have no business owning one - in their own and the public best interest.
     
  11. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    I couldn't have said it better so I won't try.

    I carry a S&W M442 J frame in a pocket holster. I carry it daily and every day.

    I agree not many carry the first handgun all the way through their life. I am carrying a different revolver today than back then but all 3 handguns I've carry concealed have been Airweight J frames.
     
  12. JohnBiltz

    JohnBiltz Member

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    I'm sure there are more like you. I've been carrying a G26 since I started carrying and have no plans to change that. Most people are not like us though.
     
  13. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    I have been carrying full-size pistols since 1995. That doesn't mean it's a good option for everyone.

    Training and an understanding of all safety rules is important no matter what kind of gun you use.

    I can't imagine telling anyone that a pocket gun is a good first gun option.

    I overall agree with what John is saying in post 26, except to point out that just because the army issues something to a lot of people, it doesn't mean they use it well. Army pistol training is ghastly, and a lot of my female soldiers can't even reach the safety with their strong-side thumb.
     
  14. hentown

    hentown Member

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    First question I'd aske would be why would the OP assume that my choice of carry isn't user-friendly?? :cool: Although I think this is a nonsensical question, I'd most certainly recommend a G26 to anybody.
     
  15. jimbo555

    jimbo555 Member

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    I agree with shadow 7d,go the range try them.And start with the full size don't automatically try to find the smallest.It's worth the effort to carry a full size pistol.
     
  16. BullfrogKen

    BullfrogKen Moderator Emeritus

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    Hear, hear!

    The M9 is a huge gun. Fits a man's hand if you wear large size gloves. Other people have to adjust their grip to reach the safety, then the trigger, then the mag release.

    Glocks are the same way. They're big, thick guns that just don't fit most people. Given NYPD's terribly abysmal marksmanship record and hit ratio I hestitate to say that their officers "make them work". Shortening the barrel does nothing to make it fit better.


    I don't have a "catch-all' answer to this question. And I'm not going to try making one up now.

    I have certain qualities and characteristics that I try to keep in mind when suggesting a half dozen different guns for someone to look at when I get this question. And I try to consider the totality of who that person is when I make those suggestions.
     
  17. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    Trying many different guns is the right way to choose a gun, no argument. But I'm amazed how many posters keep overlooking that we are making a "general" CCW recommendation for a person about whom we know nothing. We have no idea if this person (real or hypothetical) has engaged in any sort of self-analysis to determine how he or she perceives what it means to go about armed, the responsibilities attached, etc. Nor have we any idea why this person would suddenly want to get a CCW or whether he or she has ever held a firearm let alone fired one. Yet most of us are suggesting a process that begins with going to a range and trying different guns. Why aren't we pointing out that nobody should be thinking which gun until he or she has fully dealt with the questions:

    "What drives me to want to provide for my own defense rather than relying on someone else?"

    "What are my non-fiream SD options, and will they suffice?"

    "What training would I need to operate an SD firearm effectively and without harming someone I didn't mean to harm?"

    "Could I inflict potentially lethal injury on another person, even in self defense, and live with myself afterwards?"

    "What are the legal ramifications of using a gun on another person, and can I and my family deal with them?"

    "After sorting out all the above, do I still want a gun?"

    These answers will help in the eventual selection process, and ought to precede it or at least run in parallel with it.

    The RKBA is firm, and this person, assuming he or she is not under age, a felon, etc., certainly may own a gun. I'm no fan of government mandated training or psychoanalysis as a prerequisite for gun ownership, but I am a big believer in the firearms community encouraging people who own or want to own a self-defense (or any) firearm to get proper training and engage in some deep thought about the potential ramifications of what they're planning to do.

    Shouldn't we discourage a newbie, even a hypothetical one, from putting the cart before the horse?
     
  18. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

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    As so many of the posters have tried to point out it is better to fit the gun to the user than to try to fit the user to the gun.

    However to avoid continuing to pile on small frame revolvers enjoy strong sales with many ccw users. Although I believe it takes a experienced shooter to really take advantage of its accuracy it enjoys small size for easy concealment, powerful, controllable round for it's size, mechanically simple to operate, relatively lightweight and the grip design allows it to be used by a variety of shooters.
     
  19. Cee Zee

    Cee Zee member

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    Gee it would be nice if I knew what you think I'm basing on "just opinion" as if there's anything else to base anything on here. Your post is about as clear as mud friend. Be specific please. Where do I contradict myself? What do you think is just opinion? I'm pretty sure I have my name right. The rest is almost certainly opinion actually. I just wonder what you think is "fact" and what is "just" opinion. And what makes an opinion "just" an opinion? You make opinions sound like a bad thing. I don't see how anyone could answer the questions at the heart of the OP's post without posting opinion.

    I don't wish to flame either. I'm just making a point or two. I knew this thread would quickly descend into a brand war with the fanboys trumpeting their favorites and bashing everything they see that makes another brand look good. Those that say that everyone can use a Glock for example are just saying you can make a square peg fit a round hole if you bash it with a big enough hammer. In short you can train anyone to use any gun fairly well. But that doesn't change the fact that some people use certain guns far better than others.

    Like me for example. I have nothing against Glocks but I have yet to find one that fits my hand at all. I tried to buy one and couldn't. They just do not fit my hand. My hands are large and thick and I've had several broken fingers with some being broken repeatedly. That's what football will do for you or at least it did that for me. A short grip just will not work for me if the gun is bigger than a .380. The recoil just doesn't have the right mechanics in my hand. Every short grip gun pivots in the middle of my hand which makes it hard to get off more than one shot without getting a whole new grip on the gun. So one of those NYPD Glocks would definitely be a square peg in a round hole for me. The grips are far too short for me. Trust me I've tried to make them work for me. Why should I buy one when other guns work far better for me?

    Yet the fanboys are here telling us that we can all use them. Yeah we can all drive Honda Civics to hear the tree huggers tell it but try fitting in one of those things if you're 6'5" and weigh 350 lbs.. No I am not that big but I'm too big for a Civic. I'm only 6'1" and the only way I can fit in a Honda is to lean the seat back to where my head is in the back seat. One size does NOT ever fit all despite what people will tell you. And I've seen people that couldn't see over the dashboard in a Escalade too. People come in a wide variety of shapes and sizes and one size just will not fit all despite people trying to tell you "ignore all that stuff about size and a Glock will work for you". It won't because you can't ignore that stuff. And it was obvious from the start that this thread was about trying to make that fact go away so that Glocks can "totally rule".

    Again I wanted to buy one, I tried to buy one, I had the money in my pocket and went to every gun shop I know and zilch. None of them fit me well enough to work. It wasn't really even close and I must have tried at least 2 dozen different models. Glocks are NOT for everyone despite what the fanboys say.

    BTW pretty much everything I said here is opinion except for the fact that some people work better with certain guns while others work better with different guns. That's not opinion. That's a fact.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  20. wlewisiii

    wlewisiii Member

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    My catch all: Go get training. If you don't know how to shoot properly or when to shoot legally you're too big a danger.

    If you must, pepper spray or a 4" Model 10.
     
  21. Queen_of_Thunder

    Queen_of_Thunder member

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    A S&W model 25-5 with 4 inch barrel. The business end of this weapon and the size of the openings of the cylinder the threat will see will cause one to run away.
     
  22. Godsgunman

    Godsgunman Member

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    Just like most have already said, there is no "catch all" answer, way to many variables. I guess the closest in my mind would be some small caliber of revolver since I believe they are easier and simpler for newbies. I was started by my grandfather on a .22 revolver and thus began my love for guns. Thank God he didn't give me a Glock to begin with since I hate those things and would never have owned a gun. (maybe my wife wishes that would have happened though) :p
     
  23. BullfrogKen

    BullfrogKen Moderator Emeritus

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    The nice thing about a revolver for new shooters is it's very easy to learn on. Very easy to tell when it's unloaded. No safeties, loaded chambers to clear. The only "button" needed to make it work is the cylinder release.


    The other nice thing is the grips can be changed. Have big hands? Get big grips. Have small hands? Buy slim, compact ones. Or anything in between.


    Still, it wouldn't be my "catch-all" to recommend to someone.


    There isn't one any more than there could be a "catch-all" for what sort of shoe someone should wear everyday.
     
  24. psyopspec

    psyopspec Member

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    Do you have an example of this? A couple of us suggested a Glock 19 as a starting point, and with that suggestion along the lines of "As a starting point, you might try this," I see neither trumpeting one brand nor poo-pooing another.

    Again, you're straw-manning. No one said that.

    I agree. And one more time, please provide an example where anyone denied this.
     
  25. Apachedriver

    Apachedriver Member

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    I agree with you; the thread is based on a flawed premise. But the flawed premise is actually the belief that anyone can receive/give a recommendation for a specific CCW without any considerations. There are always basic considerations. There is also always a starting point when looking for firearms but that point is different for each individual. I stated my reasons for preferring a Glock or medium frame revolver as an introductory/comparison point. One that I didn't mention is the fact that those are among the most familiar for most non-shooters and non-owners due to societal exposure. That doesn't make them an end all/ be all starting point.

    I also don't really see where this has become a brand war. I certainly haven't turned to a "brand war with the fanboys trumpeting their favorites and bashing everything they see that makes another brand look good." The person I saw doing that here was you (with Glock vs 1911), which is why I replied.

    On separate note, you took exception with the 1911 as a CCW although there wasn't a recommendation in my post, which you quoted. The 1911 is my choice, and as an aside I stated that I think it's sexy. I don't buy work guns because they're sexy but if I find them to be sexy, then so be it. I also find an AH-64D with a combat load to be sexy.

    You state a 1911 is now relegated to range use only, but there are more than a few modern 1911s in use in daily life and death matters apart from concealed carry. It's a tool that has it's place in my lineup.

    Complicated? While the thumb safety is an additional step when compared to a Glock, I fail to see where that makes the 1911 complicated. The grip safety? That's a complete non-issue to anyone that knows how to hold a firearm properly. In your case, I can see the potential physical issue based on your other post but that's a personal fit issue. That's not a design flaw. The rest of your 1911 opinions might be applicable to the older military M1911/M1911A1s. But then again, those are different due to the technologies of the time and the conditions they were made to operate in.

    In my opinion, a CCW gun should be the highest quality one can effectively afford, effectively conceal, effectively maintain, and effectively fire in practice and in defense, should the situation ever arise. In my experience, there aren't any limitations or pre-requisites based on model, brand, or size/weight other than those of the individual choosing the CCW.

    Oh, I can also comfortably and effectively conceal carry/use an HK USPF .45 and HK USPC .45 due to their fit and 1911-style ergonomics. But that's just me. I don't assume that of anyone else.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
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